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Is my neighbour allowed to shout at my kids?

2

Comments

  • #32
    cork_buoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭cork_buoy


    MapForJ wrote: »
    A bit OT but :

    What would have been the correct response from the neighbour who shouted?

    An appropriate response could be something as simple as calmly asking for an explanation as to what had happened to his son. I wouldn't have minded that at all. In fact, I've often mediated disputes between a few kids arguing out in the front of the house. Remember, in this case he had no idea why his son was crying so why should he be aggressive towards anyone in the first place? Kids cry over the most trivial of things... they are kids. His child is a 4 year old crying over a toy gun.
    MapForJ wrote: »
    What if kids are breaking trees on a public green, I have seen people shout at them to stop

    They are vandalising the estate which is totally unacceptable. Nothing wrong approaching the kids and demanding them to stop. Failing that, contact the parents.
    MapForJ wrote: »
    And i have told kids not to be climbing a fence, not shouted at them though.

    I don't see anything wrong with that.


  • #33
    amdublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Seriously don't go to the guards. They won't care - and rightly so. You'll sound like a nine year old yourself telling tales to you mammy.

    Think this is a good example for your son to learn how some people are nice and some are not. And leave it at that.

    You have nil chance of getting a neighbour to apologise to your child (this is not the playground and you are not a teacher dealing with two children)

    Let it go for gods sake.


  • #34
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    cork_buoy wrote: »
    I'd be letting him know my intentions should I need to record the incident with the Gardai. He'd think twice about doing it again.
    Then just tell him you reported it to the police, same result.


  • #35
    Plazaman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭Plazaman


    Zambia wrote: »
    Then just tell him you reported it to the police, same result.

    OP hard to know without knowing your neighbour. Is he a loudmouth all the time? Have you ever had any problems before with him / them / their children? Do you regularly talk to him? Do you know him by his first name?

    If this is the first incident and you know the guy fairly well then a quiet word would suffice, just say your son was upset about something and you were wondering what happened. His son could have said anything to him get attention and perhap lied through his teeth to make the father react the way he did. As someone else said, tell the neighbour you would appreciate him not shouting at your kid and you and only you will deal with discipline.

    On the other hand if the neighbour is a nutjob bully and likes throwing his weight around and this is the first time shouting a your bot, then a firmer talk with a withness in the background would be needed. If a regualr occurence then a word with the Guards would do no harm.


  • #36
    cork_buoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭cork_buoy


    amdublin wrote: »
    Seriously don't go to the guards. They won't care - and rightly so. You'll sound like a nine year old yourself telling tales to you mammy.

    Not at all. There are lots of good reasons for recording this. I'm sure the Guards will listen.
    amdublin wrote: »
    Think this is a good example for your son to learn how some people are nice and some are not. And leave it at that.

    That it is. But he needs to know that there are people there to support him. I wont drop this until he gets an apology.
    amdublin wrote: »
    You have nil chance of getting a neighbour to apologise to your child (this is not the playground and you are not a teacher dealing with two children)

    I disagree. This is an estate where we pay good money to live. My kids are entitled to play safely without having to worry about some bully shouting at them. Your argument is flawed as we do not live in a lawless society. We do not have to accept behaviour like this. I will look after the best interests of my son and my family. No one is going to tell me otherwise.


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  • #37
    cork_buoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭cork_buoy


    Plazaman wrote: »
    OP hard to know without knowing your neighbour. Is he a loudmouth all the time? Have you ever had any problems before with him / them / their children? Do you regularly talk to him? Do you know him by his first name?

    This man has had run ins with several individuals in the village in the past. Up to now, I have had a good relationship with him. We've looked after his son before when his partner was working and visa versa. We are on first name terms. This incident was unprovoked and totally unexpected. We were caught by surprise to be honest.
    Plazaman wrote: »
    If this is the first incident and you know the guy fairly well then a quiet word would suffice, just say your son was upset about something and you were wondering what happened.

    Yes, this is what I would like to do.
    Plazaman wrote: »
    His son could have said anything to him get attention and perhap lied through his teeth to make the father react the way he did.

    He didn't - since his Dad was running out his door as his son was running in. There was no exchange of words between them.
    Plazaman wrote: »
    As someone else said, tell the neighbour you would appreciate him not shouting at your kid and you and only you will deal with discipline.

    I intend to.
    Plazaman wrote: »
    On the other hand if the neighbour is a nutjob bully and likes throwing his weight around and this is the first time shouting a your bot, then a firmer talk with a withness in the background would be needed. If a regualr occurence then a word with the Guards would do no harm.

    I will be firm enough the first time. I wont be returning for a subsequent conversation. He either mans up and apologises or not.


  • #38
    cork_buoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭cork_buoy


    Zambia wrote: »
    Then just tell him you reported it to the police, same result.

    That's if he thinks twice about it... if he continues to behave like this I've got no record of the initial incident.


  • #39
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Why do you think you need to keep a record with police? If your not going to be pressing charges now there is no point bending a cops ear.


  • #40
    irishdude11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭irishdude11


    cork_buoy wrote: »
    Yes, and that type of behaviour towards a young boy from a grown man is entirely unacceptable.

    Yes, it would take all of 10 mins to record the incident. It's purely a record to protect against future incidence and is entirely justifiable. It's also a last resort. If you followed the thread you'd see that. However, thanks for your feedback.

    A cross look is hardly comparable to a grown man getting within inches of a 9 year old and shouting expletives at him.
    Please show me where this is a crime? If anyone gives out to your son, whether its justified or not, do you plan on calling guards? Do you have any idea what an overreaction this is?

    This man hasnt been constantly verbally abusing your son. It was a once off where he was shouting at him for explanations as to why his own son was upset. He didn't lay a hand on him, he didn't even insult/offend him, he was angry and looking for explanations and that's about the height of it. Do you realise how absolutely ridiculous it is to report something like this to the guards?
    cork_buoy wrote: »
    Not at all. There are lots of good reasons for recording this. I'm sure the Guards will listen.

    The guards wont give a sh*t about this and why would they. Here's what they will see - two children playing and one starts crying and his father gives out to the other child asking why his own child is upset. What exactly is there for a guard to make record of there? What do you think the gardai's job is? To get involved in playground squabbles?
    That it is. But he needs to know that there are people there to support him. I wont drop this until he gets an apology.
    I think your best bet would be to have words with the neighbour. He will probably apologise straight off and your cordial relationship can be preserved and your son wont have to worry about anymore issues like this.

    If you go to the guards your relationship with this neighbour and his family will be be ruined completely, they will not take being reported to the gardai lightly, in fact they would take serious offence to it. You and your family could do without having to spend years living near someone who hates your guts. It would be much better for yourself and your son if you just had a word with him man to man.


  • #41
    cork_buoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭cork_buoy


    irishdude11 wrote:
    Please show me where this is a crime? If anyone gives out to your son, whether its justified or not, do you plan on calling guards? Do you have any idea what an overreaction this is?

    It is clear that you have difficulty in comprehending the situation. He has over reacted in shouting expletives within inches of my sons face. This is a crime. See earlier post.
    irishdude11 wrote:
    This man hasnt been constantly verbally abusing your son. It was a once off where he was shouting at him for explanations as to why his own son was upset. He didn't lay a hand on him, he didn't even insult/offend him, he was angry and looking for explanations and that's about the height of it. Do you realise how absolutely ridiculous it is to report something like this to the guards?

    This is not acceptable behaviour. An appropriate response may include reporting the incident to the guards to record it. Please see preivous posts. This has already been answered.
    irishdude11 wrote: »
    The guards wont give a sh*t about this and why would they.

    They will.
    irishdude11 wrote: »
    Here's what they will see - two children playing and one starts crying and his father gives out to the other child asking why his own child is upset. What exactly is there for a guard to make record of there? What do you think the gardai's job is? To get involved in playground squabbles?

    The issue isn't the kids fighting amonst themselves. The issue is the mans reaction to my son which was way over the top and totally unacceptable. You should re-read the thread. You seem to be missing the facts!
    irishdude11 wrote: »
    I think your best bet would be to have words with the neighbour. He will probably apologise straight off and your cordial relationship can be preserved and your son wont have to worry about anymore issues like this.

    I've stated this a half dozen time. I think you need to re-read this thread.
    irishdude11 wrote: »
    If you go to the guards your relationship with this neighbour and his family will be be ruined completely, they will not take being reported to the gardai lightly, in fact they would take serious offense to it. You and your family could do without having to spend years living near someone who hates your guts. It would be much better for yourself and your son if you just had a word with him man to man.

    He's renting and intends to return to Tipp when he retires. We've talked about this in the past. His reaction is over the top and he needs a firm talking to about his behaviour towards my family - I've stated this already on several occasions throughout the thread. Please re-read as you are missing the facts.


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  • #42
    cork_buoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭cork_buoy


    Zambia wrote: »
    Why do you think you need to keep a record with police? If your not going to be pressing charges now there is no point bending a cops ear.

    You need to re-read the thread. Your line of questioning seems long and drawn out. I've already justified my intended course of action. I'm taking the non violent, non confrontational course of action. Recording the incident with the Gardai is a last resort. You should also re-read the thread. I've already stated this.


  • #43
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Some peoples norms are seriously out of whack if they think its ok for a grown man to start roaring and cursing at a child with no provocation whatsoever.

    I would tread carefully, though as it sounds like this guy is very stressed or has some issues of some sort.


  • #44
    cork_buoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭cork_buoy


    BostonB wrote: »
    Some peoples norms are seriously out of whack if they think its ok for a grown man to start roaring and cursing at a child with no provocation whatsoever.

    I would tread carefully, though as it sounds like this guy is very stressed or has some issues of some sort.

    Agreed - I think that this thread has run its course. Thank you to everyone for your contributions.


  • #45
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    cork_buoy wrote: »
    You need to re-read the thread. Your line of questioning seems long and drawn out. I've already justified my intended course of action. I'm taking the non violent, non confrontational course of action. Recording the incident with the Gardai is a last resort. You should also re-read the thread. I've already stated this.

    I have read the thread. I also think you are going to go about this correctly and talk to the bloke.

    What I don't get and was hoping you would sort of drop. Is that you don't have to report something to police prove it happened. Especially if you don't intend to press charges at that time. Chances are the Garda you tell this story to will only note it in some personal book and you can do that yourself.

    In your position I would not even consider the police till you have at least talked to your neighbour.


  • #46
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Community Garda deals with this kinda stuff AFAIK.


  • #47
    cork_buoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭cork_buoy


    Zambia wrote: »
    I have read the thread. I also think you are going to go about this correctly and talk to the bloke.

    What I don't get and was hoping you would sort of drop. Is that you don't have to report something to police prove it happened. Especially if you don't intend to press charges at that time. Chances are the Garda you tell this story to will only note it in some personal book and you can do that yourself.

    In your position I would not even consider the police till you have at least talked to your neighbour.

    I like to think ahead. If we can't work it out with a chat then I would contact the local Garda station. Unfortunately, thrashing it out with a chat isn't going to work with some...

    What else can I do - get him into a headlock and demand an apology? I'm pretty sure there are many who would have lost the head by what he did. I'm 30 and have 4 kids - 3 boys, 4, 6 and 9 and a little girl of 10 months.

    I'm trying to show my kids a good example of how to deal with confrontation through a level headed approach. This seems to be seriously lacking these days as can be seen by some of the replies where this guys acts should be ignored. Some even made out that I was overreacting. A few years ago I'd probably have just walked up to his door and threatened him with a violent act of some description.


  • #48
    source
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭source


    OP if you go into a Garda station and try to make a complaint about this pushing for Section 6 POA you will be asked to make a statement, your wife and son will also have to make statements. This is an official complaint. If you refuse to do that, the incident will go no further than the conversation between you and the member. You cannot request for something to just be noted.

    If you make a complaint it will be investigated. You will ruin your relationship with your neighbour who you have to live next door to.

    Have a chat, invite him for a drink and have a quiet talk about it. Don't get angry and don't get accusatory. Just discuss what happened and tell him you'd rather he came to you instead of scolding your child in the street. Tell him you hope that this can be put in the past.

    You've already said you have a good relationship with him, going to the Gardai is a knee jerk reaction which will do you, your neighbour and your kid no good.

    I understand you're upset about what happened and how it happened, and yes technically by the strictest wording of the legislation he is guilty of an offence. This doesn't change the fact that this is the kind of thing better dealt with by having a quiet friendly chat, where you voice your concerns.


  • #49
    source
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭source


    cork_buoy wrote: »
    I like to think ahead. If we can't work it out with a chat then I would contact the local Garda station. Unfortunately, thrashing it out with a chat isn't going to work with some...

    What else can I do - get him into a headlock and demand an apology? I'm pretty sure there are many who would have lost the head by what he did. I'm 30 and have 4 kids - 3 boys, 4, 6 and 9 and a little girl of 10 months.

    I'm trying to show my kids a good example of how to deal with confrontation through a level headed approach. This seems to be seriously lacking these days as can be seen by some of the replies where this guys acts should be ignored. Some even made out that I was overreacting. A few years ago I'd probably have just walked up to his door and threatened him with a violent act of some description.

    I admire your resolve to sort this out in a peaceful manner, but I would think that teaching your kids to call the Gardai for every little argument with your neighbour would be just as damaging and detrimental as going over there and ripping him a new one.


  • #50
    cork_buoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭cork_buoy


    source wrote: »
    I admire your resolve to sort this out in a peaceful manner, but I would think that teaching your kids to call the Gardai for every little argument with your neighbour would be just as damaging and detrimental as going over there and ripping him a new one.

    I'm going to chat with him first. How he responds will determine my next action.

    Thanks for your feedback. I agree with your previous post that going to the cops will ruin our relationship.


  • #51
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,902 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    source wrote: »
    I but I would think that teaching your kids to call the Gardai for every little argument with your neighbour .

    I really don't get this:confused:

    how is a grown man running up to a nine year old, squaring up to him and shouting expeletives in his face "a little argument"??

    I wonder how far people think it would need to have gone before it was a reporting incident?:confused:


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  • #52
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,902 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    source wrote: »
    I but I would think that teaching your kids to call the Gardai for every little argument with your neighbour .

    I really don't get this:confused:

    how is a grown man running up to a nine year old, squaring up to him and shouting expeletives in his face "a little argument"??

    I wonder how far people think it would need to have gone before it was a reporting incident?:confused:


  • #53
    source
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭source


    Riskymove wrote: »
    I really don't get this:confused:

    how is a grown man running up to a nine year old, squaring up to him and shouting expeletives in his face "a little argument"??

    I wonder how far people think it would need to have gone before it was a reporting incident?:confused:

    What I'm getting at is, this is the kind of occurrence that can be sorted out with a quick chat, It would be better for the op to teach his kids that talking with a neighbour over something should always be the first thing to do.

    Going straight to the Gardai should not be the first step unless something serious happened, and no I don't think that someone shouting at a kid is serious. In the past if I was a bold little bollix I got a slap, including off the neighbours if I was bold in their house. No problems, I deserved it.

    If someone shouted at me, and I was in the wrong, again no problems, as I deserved it. If someone shouted at me and I had done nothing wrong, my dad had a word and it was all sorted out. A nice calm common sense approach.


  • #54
    Spacedog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭Spacedog


    go talk to him,
    -if he seems apologetic for over reacting, have him apologise to your kid.
    -if he starts getting defensive of aggressive, get right in his face like a psycho and tell him you'll F'in murder him if he so much as looks at your kid again.


  • #55
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,902 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    source wrote: »
    What I'm getting at is, this is the kind of occurrence that can be sorted out with a quick chat, It would be better for the op to teach his kids that talking with a neighbour over something should always be the first thing to do.

    fair enough

    but, based on what I have read, this went well beyond simply shouting at someone..I would not categorise it as some sort of regular 'little argument with a neighbor' occurence


  • #56
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Edited for clarity...
    cork_buoy wrote: »
    ... I spoke to my son from work and reassured him that I would talk to the neighbour and sort it out

    ....

    If this course of action fails I was wondering what I should do next....


  • #57
    cork_buoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭cork_buoy


    It looks positive - my neighbour left me a voicemail. I just picked it up. He's meeting me tomorrow with my son to apologise to him. I think that's a great result.

    Thanks again for all the feedback.


  • #58
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    Great to hear everything is looking good Cork Bhoy.

    Some people really need to read the thread from the start. The OP keeps saying that he only considered the Guards, and as a last resort at that, after having a man-to-man!

    And at people who think that the guards would be a waste of time, and @Zambia in particular seeing as you are in the Southern Hemisphere, did you ever hear of Ivan Milat? He was a normal, nice neighbour, who had a horrible little secret. Maybe if HE was reported a bit sooner, lives would have been saved. An extreme example, but THATS why you report things.


  • #59
    irishdude11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭irishdude11


    cork_buoy wrote: »
    It is clear that you have difficulty in comprehending the situation. He has over reacted in shouting expletives within inches of my sons face. This is a crime. See earlier post.

    Eh, it isn't a crime to shout at a child. He overreacted alright but he didn't break any law. Do you think he would get convicted of a non-existant crime in court for this when you have people with dozens convictions walking out scot free from court after yet another assault, robbery, etc...?
    The issue isn't the kids fighting amonst themselves. The issue is the mans reaction to my son which was way over the top and totally unacceptable. You should re-read the thread. You seem to be missing the facts!
    Im not missing any facts, I said this is how the 'guards would see it'. They have enough on their plate to be dealing with without getting involved in what they will see as squabbling kids and parents.

    It's a good thing you got in contact with him before going to the gardai, as now you have the best possible outcome.


  • #60
    rebel without a clue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 290 ✭✭rebel without a clue


    cork_buoy wrote: »
    It looks positive - my neighbour left me a voicemail. I just picked it up. He's meeting me tomorrow with my son to apologise to him. I think that's a great result.

    Thanks again for all the feedback.

    good to hear. you know yer man could have being having a bad day and had reached the end of his tether by the time the incident occured. i know thats still no excuse for frightening the life out of a child. but hopefully hes realised what hes done and is mortified and sorry for his actions. hope it all works out and the two boys can be mates again (aswell as the adults!).


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  • #61
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    newmug wrote: »
    Great to hear everything is looking good Cork Bhoy.

    Some people really need to read the thread from the start. The OP keeps saying that he only considered the Guards, and as a last resort at that, after

    And at people who think that the guards would be a waste of time, and @Zambia in particular seeing as you are in the Southern Hemisphere, did you ever hear of Ivan Milat? He was a normal, nice neighbour, who had a horrible little secret. Maybe if HE was reported a bit sooner, lives would have been saved. An extreme example, but THATS why you report things.

    We know he said considered, I was advocating not to consider it.

    Its all ready been stated it will not be "noted". So going to the Garda station to get it noted is a bit piontless dont you think?


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