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London Riots

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Comments

  • #422
    Colonialboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭Colonialboy


    Ive been wondering the last few months as to when the rioting would kick off. You dont need an MBA in Public administration and a degree in social science to know that this has been coming for a long time.
    I fell 100% sorry for the victims , but I dont completely blame the perpatrators.

    Ironic the way Rio Ferdinand and Rooney commented on twitter how appaling the rioting was. Maybe Im the only one who sees a connection between them earning 250k a week and some yob in Croydon taking his oppurtunity to smash a window and grab a mobile phone.

    The solution is out there, its all been said and discussed ad nauseaum, well actually its probably been said, but hasnt actually been discussed really because any debate on some of the issues at the root of this problem were censored by the social liberals, pc brigade, brussells etc etc.


  • #423
    AnnyHallsal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,118 ✭✭✭AnnyHallsal


    Colonialboy wrote: »

    Ironic the way Rio Ferdinand and Rooney commented on twitter how appaling the rioting was. Maybe Im the only one who sees a connection between them earning 250k a week and some yob in Croydon taking his oppurtunity to smash a window and grab a mobile phone.

    Could you explain it to me, please?
    Colonialboy wrote: »

    The solution is out there, its all been said and discussed ad nauseaum, well actually its probably been said, but hasnt actually been discussed really because any debate on some of the issues at the root of this problem were censored by the social liberals, pc brigade, brussells etc etc.

    This is the fault of the liberals is it? People on both ends of the political spectrum are using this to forward their own agendas.

    What is this solution, repressed by the politically correct?


  • #424
    Laminations
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Colonialboy wrote: »
    Ive been wondering the last few months as to when the rioting would kick off. You dont need an MBA in Public administration and a degree in social science to know that this has been coming for a long time.
    I fell 100% sorry for the victims , but I dont completely blame the perpatrators.

    Ironic the way Rio Ferdinand and Rooney commented on twitter how appaling the rioting was. Maybe Im the only one who sees a connection between them earning 250k a week and some yob in Croydon taking his oppurtunity to smash a window and grab a mobile phone.

    The solution is out there, its all been said and discussed ad nauseaum, well actually its probably been said, but hasnt actually been discussed really because any debate on some of the issues at the root of this problem were censored by the social liberals, pc brigade, brussells etc etc.

    Wha? They are rioting and looting because footballers are paid too much? Its the PC brigade that's constantly debating the causes and blocking action -oh my the police can't be too heavy handed now on those poor disillusioned boys- the PC brigade don't censor debate, they smother people in it


  • #425
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    cavedave wrote: »
    Riots do tend to break out after perceived injustice at the hands of police. For example 1992 Los Angeles riots, the Stonewall riot, 2011 Egyptian revolution. How many examples do you need of a possible connection between rioting and perceived police actions before those that think there may be a link are not deluded?
    Melodramatic and misguided tosh.
    It is an excuse to bang the place up. The people who cared about what happened were protesting peacefully on Saturday afternoon. The thieves, burglars and violent vandals have f*** all to do with anything of a kind.


  • #426
    Skrynesaver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭Skrynesaver


    The number of outbreaks is surprisingly large
    Overlay of riots on google maps


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  • #427
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Skrynesaver wrote: »
    The number of outbreaks is surprisingly large
    Overlay of riots on google maps

    Spontaneous my hole! One only hopes that the social misfits behind this hang themselves by their use of Twitter, YouTube and other social media.


  • #428
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    mike65 wrote: »
    I suspect today will be the "fight back" day by ordinary people who start to gather at junctions and impose local curfews of their own.

    Agreed. This already started happening last night. There are several videos floating about of shopkeepers etc forming groups and trying to chase off the looters. All very admirable, but is pretty likely to take a nasty turn for someone.


  • #429
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,910 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    mike65 wrote: »
    I suspect today will be the "fight back" day by ordinary people who start to gather at junctions and impose local curfews of their own.

    Started last night with the Turkish business standing up for themselves.

    http://100gf.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/turkish-shopkeepers-stand-guard-in-dalston-londonriots/


  • #430
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Time for the Police to take off the gloves and get stuck in, bring in the water cannon from NI and add in the threat of plactic bullet rounds. The police need to stop pussy footing and fight back on behalf of the public. Cameron should also introduce a carfew in London, Bristol, and wherever they deem it necessary. Too many people have suffered, and this must not be allowed to continue into a fourth night.

    PS; The Army as a last resort, and only to be used if shooting starts.


  • #431
    Thinkingaboutit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,261 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    Kurdish shopkeepers were fighting off some of the thugs. Admirable except they have to be very careful as the regulars of the criminal justice system know more law than lawyers, and they could find themselves doing time for fighting off criminal scum, protecting all they own.


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  • #432
    Laminations
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Dr Galen wrote: »
    Agreed. This already started happening last night. There are several videos floating about of shopkeepers etc forming groups and trying to chase off the looters. All very admirable, but is pretty likely to take a nasty turn for someone.

    If it's one or more of the looters then who cares?
    There are thankfully more decent working people than there are mindless thugs. They need to be stood up to, I don't mean by maverick individuals who'll get themselves hurt, I mean by society as a whole. No more excuses, no more wooly labels, no more justifying and legitimising. The bottom feeders need to be told they are not entitled to a nice salary, and they have to work for things they want, not just get angry at others who have those things because they've worked


  • #433
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Just a word to the wise, I got done twice over night for use of the "s" word so best not use it.


  • #434
    Dirk Gently
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,784 ✭✭✭Dirk Gently


    mike65 wrote: »
    Just a word to the wise, I got done twice over night for use of the "s" word so best not use it.

    socialist?


  • #435
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,396 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Thinkingaboutit wrote: »
    Kurdish shopkeepers were fighting off some of the thugs. Admirable except they have to be very careful as the regulars of the criminal justice system know more law than lawyers, and they could find themselves doing time for fighting off criminal scum, protecting all they own.
    mike65 wrote: »
    Just a word to the wise, I got done twice over night for use of the "s" word so best not use it.

    Yeah, I got done for it myself last night. By no means am I trying to backseat mod but just to help others out I draw your attention to this post regarding the "s" word.


  • #436
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    mike65 wrote: »
    Just a word to the wise, I got done twice over night for use of the "s" word so best not use it.
    Yeah, flicking between this thread and the A/H one it's very easy to use the 'S' word in the wrong place.:(


  • #437
    Laminations
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    mike65 wrote: »
    Just a word to the wise, I got done twice over night for use of the "s" word so best not use it.

    Don't call a spade a spade. In the link I posted above the BBC are being chastised for not calling it like it is and continuing late into yesterday to refer to the yobs as protesters. Apparently after 7/7 there was an internal memo outlawing the use of the description 'terrorist' as it's emotive.
    :rolleyes:


  • #438
    Laminations
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Yeah, flicking between this thread and the A/H one it's very easy to use the 'S' word in the wrong place.:(

    The s word! :)
    Don't say Voldemort.


  • #439
    cavedave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭cavedave


    JustinDee

    Melodramatic and misguided tosh.

    It is an excuse to bang the place up. The people who cared about what happened were protesting peacefully on Saturday afternoon. The thieves, burglars and violent vandals have f*** all to do with anything of a kind.
    How so? Could you actually deal with my claim that you are confusing is and ought. What actually did occur with what should.

    There is judge type thinking. Where you have to judge how culpable someone is for their actions.

    They come along and say that they went to a demonstration, that they have no job, that they never finished school etc etc.
    You as a judge can go "I dont care you committed a crime and are going to jail for five years"
    You seem to be saying I intend to as judge go "off with you you naughty scamp dont do it again"

    This is entirely missing the point. I am not talking about judge thinking. I am talking about bookie thinking
    A bookie looks at the probabilities of things based on what might effect them.
    So say a bookie sets up a bet "what are the chances of a riot in London tonight?" Ignore the moral hazard in doing this.

    Now Riots happen in summer because it is hard to riot in the cold and the wet. So if it is summer he might change the odds from 1 in 1000 to 1 in 5000.
    Similarly if the unemployment rate goes up he might increase the odds slightly. This is not a moral judgement it is just a bet based on probabilities.

    Now when you say that the protest has bugger all to do with the riot you are saying that if you were a bookie you would not up the odds of a riot if you heard that a demonstration was taking place that night. One against alleged police brutality.

    This might make sense to say in judge thinking. But any bookie who bases their thinking on what should happen rather then what will is going out of business fast.

    Why does this matter? Bookie thinking finds what actually effects the probability of events. So you can decide what to do in order to reduce the chance of a riot in future.


  • #440
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Laminations wrote: »
    Don't call a spade a spade. In the link I posted above the BBC are being chastised for not calling it like it is and continuing late into yesterday to refer to the yobs as protesters.
    Yeah, I've heard them on BBC talking about 'demonstrators' :confused: The only thing they are demonstrating is how to get a free TV or mobile phone.


  • #441
    Il Trap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭Il Trap


    Rampant and aggressive colonialism of the past, the breeding of a leviation welfare system and the celebration of 'chav culture' in England is coming home to roost. Hopefully we learn something from this in the latter two respects.


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  • #442
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    They shot him because he shot at them. That was the line at the start.

    Turns out he did not. The cops managed to shoot each other and either think it was him (incompetence) shooting or they have tried to cover it up (corruption). Either way, its another civilian dead in questionable circumstances.

    No. It turns out that a bullet that happened to be fired wasn't his. That's not the same thing as saying that no bullets were fired or that there was no threat of bullets being fired.

    You've already decided what you want to believe irrespective of whether or not its true.


  • #443
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    It's interesting to speculate on the options open to Her Majesty's Government at this juncture.

    I would not like to be in David Cameron's shoes as he dances a moral fandango between his lefties and his righteous.

    I posted on the NATO Libya thread that I draw a certain parallell between the pickle which faced oul Col Gadaffi in Benghazi and such places as he decided what to do about the "Cockroaches" which threatened HIS regime.

    Reading many of the comments across all sections of UK media in the wake of the London unrest,one is immediately struck be the vehemence and sense of threat felt by "Ordinary" citizens.

    Many of the reported comments regarding rioters and what steps to take against them would have put Mr Gadaffi in the Salvation Army camp rather than a case for United Nations intervention.....

    Burning downtown London is not that different from burning Benghazi or Tripoli.

    It will be interesting to see just how much liberty can be taken by the disaffected yoof and the anarchist brigades before Her Majestys Government is prompted to use unparliamentary language when describing them.

    "Cockroaches" springs to mind,and perhaps the Metropolitan Police will have to yet go from house-to-house cleansing these insects to prevent ordinary UK society being over-run by the plague now buzzing around ol London town...not to mention Brum,Liverpool and assorted other lesser cities and towns.

    Perhaps those who rushed to judgement on the bould Colonel will pause a second and consider what our nearest neighbours are to do now if our Football weekends to watch Man United,Arsenal,Chelsea and the rest are to remain a viable means of relaxation..?

    Oh yes indeed we inhabit a very fragile world,ever ready to explode in our faces and when it does how do we respond....Turn the Other Cheek ?...perhaps but at some point a limit will be reached...and then the Gadaffi response starts to become a little less off-the-wall...?

    Perhaps Col Gadaffi will offer Her Majestys Government some assistance in addressing their difficulties in this stressful time :rolleyes:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #444
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    philologos wrote: »
    No. It turns out that a bullet that happened to be fired wasn't his. That's not the same thing as saying that no bullets were fired or that there was no threat of bullets being fired.
    Well, the police are entitled to shoot a guy before he shoots at them if he makes to point a gun at them. Of course, if he never did so, then hard questions need to be answered, but if he did point a gun, then the fact that he didn't manage to kill a policeman is irrelevant.


  • #445
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    ^^ Absolutely. It isn't clear cut.


  • #446
    getz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Yeah, flicking between this thread and the A/H one it's very easy to use the 'S' word in the wrong place.:(
    i know it, i know it ,and i am going to say it spectrophotofluopometrically.


  • #447
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Oh yes indeed we inhabit a very fragile world,ever ready to explode in our faces and when it does how do we respond....Turn the Other Cheek ?...perhaps but at some point a limit will be reached...and then the Gadaffi response starts to become a little less off-the-wall...?
    You are comparing a wealthy, vibrant democracy with a massively generous (over-generous?) welfare system with a military dictatorship. The people rioting and looting aren't protesting anything, they are having a laugh. They have no values. They are not an oppressed people trying win the right to vote.

    The comparison is ludicrous.


  • #448
    Laminations
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    philologos wrote: »
    No. It turns out that a bullet that happened to be fired wasn't his. That's not the same thing as saying that no bullets were fired or that there was no threat of bullets being fired.

    You've already decided what you want to believe irrespective of whether or not its true.

    The fella was associated with gangsters and a likely gangster and drug dealer himself. He had a gun, funnily this isn't being denied by his family, just that 'he'd never shoot at police' as if that makes him a decent fella, as if that makes it ok then. Yet some people still attack the police for their behaviour while gentrifying the criminals character.


  • #449
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I wonder will they use rubber bullets on the rioters or is that just reserved for the North ?


  • #450
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Laminations wrote: »
    The fella was associated with gangsters and a likely gangster and drug dealer himself. He had a gun, funnily this isn't being denied by his family, just that 'he'd never shoot at police' as if that makes him a decent fella, as if that makes it ok then. Yet some people still attack the police for their behaviour while gentrifying the criminals character.
    He was one of those noble drug-dealers who went around righting wrongs and stealing from the rich to give to the poor.


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  • #451
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Always embarrassing when people attempt a "learned" political screed at times like this.


This discussion has been closed.
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