London Riots

OhNoYouDidn't

Surprised there is no thread on this.

Met riddle someone with bullets in contentious circumstances, again, and London and now Birmingham have erupted. Yet again the Met have made a balls of it and the pissed off population have reacted in the only means left to them.

sink

I think it's gone way beyond grievance with the police. Why if they are just angry with the police are they tearing up, looting and burning their own neighbourhoods? The violence is less target towards the obvious targets e.g government building, police stations, police lines; and instead is target at branches of footlocker, hmv and curries as well as local hairdressers and corner shops. It is simple opportunism by criminals and thugs.

OhNoYouDidn't

sink wrote: »

I think it's gone way beyond grievance with the police. Why if they are just angry with the police are they tearing up, looting and burning their own neighbourhoods? The violence is less target towards the obvious targets e.g government building, police stations, police lines; and instead is target at branches of footlocker, hmv and curries as well as local hairdressers and corner shops. It is simple opportunism by criminals and thugs.

I think that is a bit shallow a reading of it. People are angry at a system that has failed them, in this case yet another civilian murdered by the hated police. It has manifested itself in a way that I will agree is not healthy, but this has been building for years.

Manach

I'd agree with Sink. Working poor have every incentive to scrap resources together to better themselves - what is happening in London is pure opportunism by a minority element in society.

teol

Look at riots in Korea. They don't go about looting and vandalising property. They just focus on the police. This rioting in England is just a bunch of scumbags having a laugh and engaging in thuggery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMi7Jkay0fY

The Internet Explorer

I've got a felling London is just like The Wire.

sollar

Young people with little stake in society venting imo

sink

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I think that is a bit shallow a reading of it. People are angry at a system that has failed them, in this case yet another civilian murdered by the hated police. It has manifested itself in a way that I will agree is not healthy, but this has been building for years.

I'm sure the guys who stole cigarettes, sneakers and xboxs had political protest in the forefront of their mind. :rolleyes:

On Saturday there were legitimate protests outside police stations and understandably police came under attack with missiles and so forth. At that stage it was most definitely politically motivated.

Then yesterday and today it developed into out and out looting, pictures on the news of afro caribbean stores and hair dressers vandalised and looted. Why would they target their own community shops and services, owned on operated by ordinary local members of their communities if they are only angry with the police. The rational does not add up.

philologos

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Met riddle someone with bullets in contentious circumstances, again, and London and now Birmingham have erupted. Yet again the Met have made a balls of it and the pissed off population have reacted in the only means left to them.

Claiming that there is a "pissed off population" almost makes it sound as if there is a majority support for this type of action.

The Met have made a balls of it only in so far as the situation is out of control. Do you really believe the Mark Duggan thing is the primary reason for looting, burning cars on fire and putting buildings alight?

Mr.Micro

Any excuse to kick off rioting. London has a long history of it and many yobs will start trouble destroying their communities and infrastructure just for the hell of it. The Met is just a joke and totally inept IMO most of the time, heavy handed and gaff prone headed by career Police who have no idea. Always riots when the Conservatives are in power.

RandomName2

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I think that is a bit shallow a reading of it. People are angry at a system that has failed them, in this case yet another civilian murdered by the hated police. It has manifested itself in a way that I will agree is not healthy, but this has been building for years.

Arguably they weren't the system's before the system wasn't theirs.

Statehood and citizenship is a two way street. The answer to perceived injustice is not to target the social compact, to establish yourself as a group whose identity is defined by its opposition to the state, and where its members are as motivated by the opportunity to obtain luxury murchandise and the opportunity to destroy industry as they are in furthering the national legislature and criminal justice system.

OhNoYouDidn't

philologos wrote: »

Claiming that there is a "pissed off population" almost makes it sound as if there is a majority support for this type of action.

The Met have made a balls of it only in so far as the situation is out of control. Do you really believe the Mark Duggan thing is the primary reason for looting, burning cars on fire and putting buildings alight?

Yes. I believe that, yet again, the plod have killed someone and we all know there will be zero consequences. That is the spark that lit the fuse. There are some opportunists, of course, but to dismiss the whole mess as scamps taking advantage fundamentally lets the pigs off the hook for their corruption. That's the main reason I disagree with the looting. Lets the media paint this as not being a reaction to a failed system.

caseyann

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I think that is a bit shallow a reading of it. People are angry at a system that has failed them, in this case yet another civilian murdered by the hated police. It has manifested itself in a way that I will agree is not healthy, but this has been building for years.

Rubbish,a poor excuse at giving any justification to such hooliganism.You dont see us out rioting in the hundreds all over dublin and other counties of Ireland.

Hate police another lame ass excuse.
And not anger towards system.More excuses.
What i have been watching on tv is nothing more than endangering lives of people and homes.



They should bring in the army.
I heard its possible they will.
They attacked people passing by on streets.
Its disgusting.:mad:

philologos

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Yes. I believe that, yet again, the plod have killed someone and we all know there will be zero consequences. That is the spark that lit the fuse. There are some opportunists, of course, but to dismiss the whole mess as scamps taking advantage fundamentally lets the pigs off the hook for their corruption. That's the main reason I disagree with the looting. Lets the media paint this as not being a reaction to a failed system.

Apart from the fact that Mark Duggan probably shot at the police first? Again, there are two sides to every story?

The vast majority of them are opportunists. I don't buy this misunderstood argument. It only applies to a very small number as far as I see it those who have been sucked up either into the lifestyle of their parents or sucked into a general culture of criminality. Excuse making for crime is limited. The blame for these riots lies with the rioters.

Honestly, I don't believe the Tories and the Lib Dems have failed on a political level. They've done a much better job at handling the UK economy than other countries in Europe have and as far as I'm aware they have been proactively supporting back-to-work programmes for people who are on the dole.

FreudianSlippers

Just another excuse for thugs to go out looting and destroying things. I hope it's put down soon and these people meet justice.

walshb

See, integration and multiculturalism never works. These parasites are not your genuine civilised 'English' people. Well, most of them aren't.

Oh, and for many many of them, it has zero to do with politics and government. It's a hatred for
Britain and Britain's people, Britain's values, and Britain's laws.

caseyann

sink wrote: »

I'm sure the guys who stole cigarettes, sneakers and xboxs had political protest in the forefront of their mind. :rolleyes:

On Saturday there were legitimate protests outside police stations and understandably police came under attack with missiles and so forth. At that stage it was most definitely politically motivated.

Then yesterday and today it developed into out and out looting, pictures on the news of afro caribbean stores and hair dressers vandalised and looted. Why would they target their own community shops and services, owned on operated by ordinary local members of their communities if they are only angry with the police. The rational does not add up.

More excuses,anyone who throws missiles or attacks police or anyone in emergency services are scum.
Politically motivated my eye.

Hearing woman on sky news now crying could have been killed in a building on fire.
No excuse :mad:

dsmythy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Surprised there is no thread on this.

Met riddle someone with bullets in contentious circumstances, again, and London and now Birmingham have erupted. Yet again the Met have made a balls of it and the pissed off population have reacted in the only means left to them.

By destroying their own neighbourhoods? Not the brightest bunch are they. You might have wanted to at least wait to see what the investigation concluded.

OhNoYouDidn't

philologos wrote: »

Apart from the fact that Mark Duggan probably shot at the police first? Again, there are two sides to every story?

No, the gun recovered had not been fired. The bullet fished out of the radio was from another policeman. Incompetent thugs.

philologos wrote: »

The vast majority of them are opportunists. I don't buy this misunderstood argument. It only applies to a very small number as far as I see it those who have been sucked up either into the lifestyle of their parents or sucked into a general culture of criminality. Excuse making for crime is limited. The blame for these riots lies with the rioters.

But of course not the unaccountable murdering coppers of London?

philologos wrote: »

Honestly, I don't believe the Tories and the Lib Dems have failed on a political level. They've done a much better job at handling the UK economy than other countries in Europe have and as far as I'm aware they have been proactively supporting back-to-work programmes for people who are on the dole.

Such a good job there are at least 40 full scale riots happening right now in England?

OhNoYouDidn't

dsmythy wrote: »

By destroying their own neighbourhoods? Not the brightest bunch are they. You might have wanted to at least wait to see what the investigation concluded.

Will you get up the yard. The Met are never taken to task for their actions.

Bad and all as the Gardai are, there is at least some chance they will be dealt with when they break the law

Ricardo G

Thugs, plain and simple.
British government need to follow New Yorks "Zero Tolerance" to break up these gangs.
Heard a representative on Skynews using the "racism" excuse again :rolleyes:.

Dale Parish

The met have not made a balls of anything. What we have here is foreigners who sponge and are out to cause trouble.
Bring on the army.

[MOD]Banned for trolling and racism.[/MOD]

Mr.Micro

caseyann wrote: »

More excuses,anyone who throws missiles or attacks police or anyone in emergency services are scum.
Politically motivated my eye.

Hearing woman on sky news now crying could have been killed in a building on fire.
No excuse :mad:

Totally agree. While the Police are standing around who is protecting all the ordinary people in the riot areas? Nobody. One thing it shows is how rubbish the Police are when it comes to doing their job. 3 days on and the riots till going. Cameron needs to re invent the old fashioned not up to any level of competency Met asap.

dsmythy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Will you get up the yard. The Met are never taken to task for their actions.

Bad and all as the Gardai are, there is at least some chance they will be dealt with when they break the law

Still doesn't excuse thuggish and brainless behaviour.

caseyann

dsmythy wrote: »

By destroying their own neighbourhoods? Not the brightest bunch are they. You might have wanted to at least wait to see what the investigation concluded.

Have you heard them make excuses?
Oh its the cuts oh its this its that.
It a load of rubbish is what it is.
Sooner the better they pull out the army and herd them and lock them all up.
Scare the Bleep out of them with armed soldiers and water guns.
I was watching an 8 year old kid kicking stuff and had his face covered.I mean where is his parents?

Just listening to that man who lost his business of 35 years in the croydon blaze,he is heart broken god help him 5 generations of family.

sink

caseyann wrote: »

More excuses,anyone who throws missiles or attacks police or anyone in emergency services are scum.
Politically motivated my eye.

Hearing woman on sky news now crying could have been killed in a building on fire.
No excuse :mad:

Don't get me wrong in a democracy violent rioting is never acceptable; it was their anger was understandable, not their actions.

The latest rioting is not motivated by any understandable tensions, it's mindless.

OhNoYouDidn't

Dale Parish wrote: »

The met have not made a balls of anything. What we have here is foreigners who sponge and are out to cause trouble.
Bring on the army.

So you think the killing in Tottenham and their containment of the riot has been good?

What evidence have you that they are 'foreigners' rioting?

philologos

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

No, the gun recovered had not been fired. The bullet fished out of the radio was from another policeman. Incompetent thugs.

Fair enough. On research it seems that you are right that the bullet that was lodged in the radio was police issue, but I certainly think that there is more to it than what others are arguing.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But of course not the unaccountable murdering coppers of London?

You don't have sufficient evidence to make that argument yet.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Such a good job there are at least 40 full scale riots happening right now in England?

Are you joking? You're judging the entire term of the Tory / Lib Dem Government on opportunist riots?

Just because a few people burn out cars, and burn out buildings doesn't somehow mean that the Government has failed. It just means that there are people who are willing to ruin communities for their own selfish goals and in this case petty thieving.

Do you really think that looting is a legitimate form of political protest? What about the businesses who are going to be affected by that loss?

Honestly, I hope the full weight of the law bears on these people and no doubt there is already a police investigation under way about Mark Duggan so that we can know the truth on that front.

RichieC

walshb wrote: »

See, integration and multiculturalism never works. These parasites are not your genuine civilised 'English' people. Well, most of them aren't.

Oh, and for many many of them, it has zero to do with politics and government. It's a hatred for
Britain and Britain's people, Britain's values, and Britain's laws.

what has this story got to do with Multiculturalism?

Doublechinlolz

Can anybody tell me exactly why they broke out? I'm in the dark!

caseyann

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Will you get up the yard. The Met are never taken to task for their actions.

Bad and all as the Gardai are, there is at least some chance they will be dealt with when they break the law

There has been no proof of anything and they took to the streets and used that as an excuse.That is all.
Stop trying to make it something it is not been proved.

OhNoYouDidn't

dsmythy wrote: »

Still doesn't excuse thuggish and brainless behaviour.

I think when the Met have abjectly and repeatedly failed at every level of competence and integrity, it takes a few petrol bombs to create reform. The system cannot contain them, so let people take the law back.

Don't condone the looting though.

walshb

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So you think the killing in Tottenham and their containment of the riot has been good?

What evidence have you that they are 'foreigners' rioting?

Pictures do not lie. It's clear to see that most are not English people. Some may well have even been born there, but they are not English.

And, we're not far behind. It won't be long until this type of behaviour is happening here.

RichieC

philologos wrote: »

You don't have sufficient evidence to make that argument yet.

So your side of the debate has the right to assume without evidence and post them but not the other?

RichieC

walshb wrote: »

Pictures do not lie. It's clear to see that most are not English people. Some may well have even ben born there, but they are not English.

And, we're not far behind. It won't be long until this type of behaviour is happening here.

you're a moderator and you're pushing this poison?

pretty despicable.

caseyann

sink wrote: »

Don't get me wrong in a democracy violent rioting is never acceptable; it was their anger was understandable, not their actions.

The latest rioting is not motivated by any understandable tensions, it's mindless.

Anger is fine,standing outside with banners is fine.Dont make it racism dont condemn the policeman(who is just one man) Until it is proved.
From what i heard that policeman was in fear of his life.

Ofc its not.Its mere thuggery and lack of respect for anyone or anything.

walshb

RichieC wrote: »

what has this story got to do with Multiculturalism?

Go look at the tv, the people who are behaving like animals..

philologos

RichieC wrote: »

So your side of the debate has the right to assume without evidence and post them but not the other?

I admitted error in my previous post as the Guardian has confirmed that the bullet that was lodged in the officers round was police issue. I can't confirm whether or not he shot at police. I can't deny it either.

Honestly retracting ones errors is good for discussion no?

dsmythy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I think when the Met have abjectly and repeatedly failed at every level of competence and integrity, it takes a few petrol bombs to create reform. The system cannot contain them, so let people take the law back.

Don't condone the looting though.

There's a lot not to condone right now. All the rioting currently happening has nothing to do with police incompetence and is plain mindless thuggery. Funny how they attack the soft targets but not police stations.

OhNoYouDidn't

caseyann wrote: »

There has been no proof of anything and they took to the streets and used that as an excuse.That is all.
Stop trying to make it something it is not been proved.

So you can make drastic statements about the motives of the rioters but I can't make the connection that the Met have gunned down another person and lied about it? Because lets face it, its happened before.

OhNoYouDidn't

dsmythy wrote: »

There's a lot not to condone right now. All the rioting currently happening has nothing to do with police incompetence and is plain mindless thuggery. Funny how they attack the soft targets but not police stations.

They have attacked police stations and burnt out police cars...

walshb

RichieC wrote: »

you're a moderator and you're pushing this poison?

pretty despicable.

Poison?

And, what has being a mod got to do with it

efb

http://www.twitvid.com/4JTZH

Dirk Gently

walshb wrote: »

Pictures do not lie. It's clear to see that most are not English people. Some may well have even ben born there, but they are not English.

you've gone this far, just say it.

OhNoYouDidn't

philologos wrote: »

I admitted error in my previous post as the Guardian has confirmed that the bullet that was lodged in the officers round was police issue. I can't confirm whether or not he shot at police. I can't deny it either.

Honestly retracting ones errors is good for discussion no?

The cops aren't claiming he fired at them anymore. Ergo, they lied at the start.

sink

walshb wrote: »

Pictures do not lie. It's clear to see that most are not English people. Some may well have even ben born there, but they are not English.

And, we're not far behind. It won't be long until this type of behaviour is happening here.

I saw quiet a few hoodies with pale white skin mixed in with the rioters. I suppose it's not their fault, they're only under the influence of the evil nig-nogs. And those black property owners close to tears at what has been done to their shop and high street, I suppose it's their own fault for being black.

Race is such an easy scapegoat for fools. We had riots in Dublin a few years ago and almost none of them where of any colour other than pasty white.

dsmythy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

They have attacked police stations and burnt out police cars...

Now it's just random people's cars. Homes too.

RichieC

walshb wrote: »

Poison?

And, what has being a mod got to do with it

Blatant racism, mate. It's 2011 and most folks consider it poison.

I'd expect a higher caliber of posts from a moderator regardless of their forum.

OhNoYouDidn't

walshb wrote: »

Poison?

And, what has being a mod got to do with it

You have made a series of racist comments in flagrant breach of the boards.ie charters.

Mods are supposed to lead by example. Not hijack threads with bile

efb

walshb wrote: »

Pictures do not lie. It's clear to see that most are not English people. Some may well have even been born there, but they are not English.

And, we're not far behind. It won't be long until this type of behaviour is happening here.

What does an English person look like?

Frank Bruno's English to me.
Ricky Hatton's English.
Amir Khan's English too.

OhNoYouDidn't

dsmythy wrote: »

Now it's just random people's cars. Homes too.

I don't disagree. But to deny there is ANY politics happening out there is to let the Met completely off the hook