has anyone here ever seen a funeral of a suicide casualty?

Micky Dolenz · 02-08-2011 07:38PM

stupidusername wrote: »

I'm curious as to what help people think there is available? I mean the last time I spoke to my psychiatrist he asked how I had been, asked if I'd any thoughts of self harm or suicide, I was honest with him and said yes. do you think they said oh my god we must get you help right now, we'll take you in and treat you until you don't feel like this any more? no, he said 'mmmhmmm' as he'd done to everything else I'd said, and noted it. the biggest problem with mental illness in this country is that help is so not available.

In my opinion help is there. I believe if that psychiatrist thought for one second that you were on the verge, they wouldn't let you leave the office.

I have heard of many cases where local GP's have not left a persons side until they were in the hands of capable mental health pro's.

Now, this is where a problem lies I think. If your first port of call is a GP who doesn't really care, you could be in bother. God bless the GP's that do take it extremely seriously.

hondasam · 02-08-2011 07:47PM

mw9121970 wrote: »

This is almost like blaming the family for the suicide. Surely they are entitled to be shown support - the suicide is how the person ended their life - and quite possibly during there life helped and supported alot of people.

It's not about blame or anything else. other people who are vulnerable can see it as a glamorous ending with lots of sympathy etc.
Yes the family needs support and I would never blame a family or indeed the person who took their own life.

WesternNight · 02-08-2011 07:52PM

I've been to one such funeral, over 8 years ago. Biggest funeral I've ever been to, and the only one I've cried all the way through. 19 years old, the one thing everyone said about him was "he'll break a few hearts". They weren't wrong.

stupidusername · 02-08-2011 08:11PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

In my opinion help is there. I believe if that psychiatrist thought for one second that you were on the verge, they wouldn't let you leave the office.

I have heard of many cases where local GP's have not left a persons side until they were in the hands of capable mental health pro's.

Now, this is where a problem lies I think. If your first port of call is a GP who doesn't really care, you could be in bother. God bless the GP's that do take it extremely seriously.

ok, well it's not a matter of opinion for me, it's a matter of experience. May of 2009 is when i was first diagnosed, and I still have not received counselling.

I don't know of anybody who's been in the situation you've said. I do know my own situation, and I know a friend that jumped out in front of a tube train a few months back despite being treated with drugs for a few years. (he survived by the way)

Is it your opinion that the doctor asking have I thought of self harm or killing myself and getting a yes for an answer, letting me leave was the right thing to do?

I'm not discouraging people from looking for help, it's just my experience that it's damn hard to get it. everyone's answer seems to be tell a friend or a family member, talk to your doctor, ring samaritans. I've done all of these things and more and am still in the same position.

hondasam · 02-08-2011 08:17PM

stupidusername wrote: »

ok, well it's not a matter of opinion for me, it's a matter of experience. May of 2009 is when i was first diagnosed, and I still have not received counselling.

I don't know of anybody who's been in the situation you've said. I do know my own situation, and I know a friend that jumped out in front of a tube train a few months back despite being treated with drugs for a few years. (he survived by the way)

Is it your opinion that the doctor asking have I thought of self harm or killing myself and getting a yes for an answer, letting me leave was the right thing to do?

I'm not discouraging people from looking for help, it's just my experience that it's damn hard to get it. everyone's answer seems to be tell a friend or a family member, talk to your doctor, ring samaritans. I've done all of these things and more and am still in the same position.

If you feel your doctor is not helping you look for a second opinion. I'm sure you have seen the links micky has put up.

I know private counselling is expensive and may not be an option for everyone. have you changed doctors or is this available to you?

Marty McFly · 02-08-2011 08:18PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

First off, you have no right to demand answers. It's an emotive subject and everyone has an opinion. It may not be an opinion you agree with, but it is valid to the person stating it all the same.

I wasnt demanding answers but if someone going to question my posts i feel i have a right to question there motives. As you said everyone is entitled to there opinion iv stated mine and ive stated why i have mine, .ie i suffered from depression, my mother suffers from depression, ive been to two funerals of people who commited suicide and had an ex who previous ex she found hanging in there kitchen. So when someone question my opinion in a condescending manner i equaly feel entitled to question them. Anyway ill leave it be just feel i had a valid point.

stupidusername · 02-08-2011 08:23PM

hondasam wrote: »

If you feel your doctor is not helping you look for a second opinion. I'm sure you have seen the links micky has put up.

I know private counselling is expensive and may not be an option for everyone. have you changed doctors or is this available to you?

it's not my doctor, it's my psychiatrist. if i look to change (I'm not sure I can) it'd take another month at least to get a first consultation, then you're called back for another, in which they tell you you'll come back for another to start treatment. all with at least 2 months gap in between. It's been 5 months since the talk i had with my GP about trying to get to see a psych up in my current location.

I'm on a WPP, so no I don't have the money to go private. Links are no use to me, that is my point.

Anyway, I didn't mean to drag this off topic, i really just wanted to make people aware that if someone comes to you for help, giving them the advice of the usual talk to your gp, or ring samaritans may be pointless. Seems like it from my point of view anyway.

I'll let ye get back on topic now anyway.

mw9121970 · 02-08-2011 08:28PM

hondasam wrote: »

It's not about blame or anything else. other people who are vulnerable can see it as a glamorous ending with lots of sympathy etc.
Yes the family needs support and I would never blame a family or indeed the person who took their own life.

I understand where you are coming from. Maybe I'm just still a bit raw about what has happened and the circumstances surrounding it. But I certainly would not use the word glamorous, then again maybe I being a bit too sensitive.

nessie911 · 02-08-2011 08:46PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Yeah, actual deaths are pretty shocking and definitely weighted toward men.
That's why I'm curious if there's anything behind the "attempts are equally distributed" thing

I wrote an essay on suicide when i was in first year in college about suicide. I cant find all the facts, but i do remember that women were often found on time.
There were also fact about how alot of men had drink in there system at the time.

Another area of society which is greatly affected by the proportions of suicide each years are males. Men have a much higher rate of suicide than their female counterparts. Department Of Public Health (2001 pg20) said that male suicide accounted for 82.8% of suicides, which is almost five times more than that of women. The National suicide research foundation (2002) found that woman had a 42% higher rate of par suicide.

When it comes to suicide Males were significantly more likely than females to have used either hanging or shooting as a method of suicide, and Females were significantly more likely than males to have used either drowning, overdose or poisoning, Department Of Public Health (2001 pg31)

nessie911 · 02-08-2011 09:01PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

In my opinion help is there. I believe if that psychiatrist thought for one second that you were on the verge, they wouldn't let you leave the office.

I have heard of many cases where local GP's have not left a persons side until they were in the hands of capable mental health pro's.

Now, this is where a problem lies I think. If your first port of call is a GP who doesn't really care, you could be in bother. God bless the GP's that do take it extremely seriously.

Help is often not there esp in rural communities. I know of two cases in particular where help was not there.

In one case the young lad was drunk one night are told his family about how **** he was feeling, how he felt he should kill him self. So his father when to there gp, and spoke to him, the gp response was that he was drunk and that he didnt relay need help. Then the young lad went to the gp and the gp told him to take up a sport to occupy his time.

In another case i know, the gp was grate, she even got a pharmacy to open up after hours so the person could get the meds they need, and sent letters to get the person to see a psychiatrist, it took 6 months for the appointment, and then he got an appointment every 8 weeks, never got offered counciling, and thats what he realy needed, but could not afford it privately.

The services are not there, and the money is not being spent on it. How many people died by suicide each year, how many died on the roads. There is alot more effort put in to the prevention of road deaths than any thing else.

Micky Dolenz · 02-08-2011 10:02PM

stupidusername wrote: »

i really just wanted to make people aware that if someone comes to you for help, giving them the advice of the usual talk to your gp, or ring samaritans may be pointless. Seems like it from my point of view anyway.

What's the alternative though?

Mike 1972 · 02-08-2011 10:58PM

The Samaritans and/or GP are in most cases just the first step in helping a person get the help they need. They still play a very important part though.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

In my opinion help is there.

The help may be there but being part of the Irish healthcare "system" its can be hard enough to access, deal with and navigate through at the best of times nevermind when one might be in a fragile state mentally.

And when it comes to funding the particular sector it still tends to attract a pretty meagre slice of the healthcare budget.

Micky Dolenz · 02-08-2011 11:29PM

I agree with the above.

I was referring to first base help where a kind word at the right time may pull you back from the brink, a supportive ear.

The mental health facilities could be a whole lot better but there are organisations out there that can support people on their journey through a sometime flawed health service.

moceri · 03-08-2011 02:01AM

A Relative of mine with a history of Mental Health disorder, was brought by her family to CUH for her own care. You would imagine that in such circumstances, the person would be cared for and monitored in a safe environment. She took her own life during the night in the single room, and was dead when found by staff doing their rounds. The Family (understandably) were outraged at her death in such circumstances. She had been admitted in a very distressed state and she could not be cared for by her family at home. I remember visiting the same unit, one evening to find, no staff present, and I was free to walk in and out ( and presumably the patients). When someone finally did appear, they had all been in the canteen on a tea break en-masse.

vampire of kilmainham · 03-08-2011 04:58AM

Sykk wrote: »

Yes I have. It's the same as every other funeral, though..

no mate it's not the same my nephew commited suicide some years back and the grief never goes away from the time of the funeral and allways as you never really find answers as to why they do it.

vampire of kilmainham · 03-08-2011 05:37AM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Comments like "suicide is selfish" and " won't they think of the children" etc make my blood boil and goes even further to create an even bigger stigma that surrounds mental health in this country.

People who comment suicide are not thinking rationally at the time.

well said and i know from having been very near to ending it due to abuse in the past i think what holds me back now is i dont want to bring any more grief on the familey as my nephew commited suicide some years back.

Minstrel27 · 03-08-2011 08:06AM

hondasam wrote: »

It's not about blame or anything else. other people who are vulnerable can see it as a glamorous ending with lots of sympathy etc.
Yes the family needs support and I would never blame a family or indeed the person who took their own life.

A glamorous ending with lots of sympathy? I don't think that's what somebody who ends their life is thinking of tbh.

Dudess · 03-08-2011 09:57AM

hondasam wrote: »

other people who are vulnerable can see it as a glamorous ending with lots of sympathy etc.

They can...?

The funeral of a person who has committed suicide is absolutely traumatising and cannot do anything other than drive home the reality of suicide and the pain the person went through and the pain caused to those left behind... "glamour" and "glorification" are just bizarre notions to have.

Just seems like you buy into the "Suicide is something to be stigmatised and hushed up" mindset tbh...

RainbowRose81 · 03-08-2011 10:24AM

The health care system in this country is dysfunctional needless to say as a result of that, the mental health care system is very dysfunctional and the social care/services is also very dysfunctional. Ireland's 2009 suicide statistics show that Ireland has the 5th highest youth suicide rate in Europe.
It's not surprising things are the way they are because people's basic needs are not being met. I know two women who have a history of mental illness who is on disability. She is in her mid 30s, single and goes to her mother's house every weekend. She has been living in a little bedsit for more than 10 years, she has been on the social housing list for more than 10 years, this is an example of how one of the most vulnerable groups in society's basic need's not being met. I have example of how dysfunctional our social care system is here. I know a woman who came here to live with her Irish husband, they had two children together. The husband left her and she had a breakdown went to hosptial and hasn't been well since. She didn't know anyone here..she is foreign. She is on disability and has her 2 children with her. She had been living in a studio flat with her two children for 3 years before they decided to house her. I am telling it like it is, I have plenty of other examples too.

Anyone who says the health and social care systems are working don't live in the real world and are not in touch with reality because that is the way how it is and the way it's going to be for how much longer.

Ms2011 · 03-08-2011 10:30AM

I known 3.

1. A guy I went to school with, got mixed up with drugs which he couldn't kick so he gassed himself in his car in a wooded area.

2. My friend's Dad hung himself when she was 10, she found him hanging from the attic, she was so traumatised she wet herself. This event in her life has been like a black cloud following her around, she's never been on the right road in life (bad boyfriends, bad life choices etc.) and I fear she never will, I even fear history repeating itself.

3. The last was just 3 years ago, my cousin found her husband hanging in the garage. They had been married just a year and a half, she was 6 months pregnant after miscarrying their first child the year before. I don't think my family will ever forgive him for what he did. He took what should have been the happiest day in my cousins life ( the birth of her daughter) and turned it into a tragic one

Not only did her husband leave her with financial problems but he has left her with the knowledge that one day she will have to explain to their daughter why her Dad isn't around. My aunt and uncle had aged in the last 3 years trying to support my cousin through all of this.
I myself find it hard to see anything but selfishness in what he did or maybe I'm still too angry to see it any differently right now???

paperclip2 · 03-08-2011 10:31AM

I did this Suicide Intervention training a year ago. It's excellent and it works well. Its a two day course open to anyone working with the public and is free of charge.

http://www.nosp.ie/asist_2.pdf

galwaybabe · 03-08-2011 10:45AM

I've lost a few people to suicide, both family and friends and every experience has been different, just as every person who commits this act is different. The most tragic one without a doubt was that of a young girl of fifteen who had been gang-raped. She got through that and was about to press charges when she and her family got threatened by the said gang. She felt forced to drop the charges in order to protect her family. This, sadly, was too much for her to cope with and she took her own life. The funeral was devastating, even the police involved in the case were crying their eyes out at it. There was nothing selfish in her act, in fact it was quite the opposite. Tragic.

spinandscribble · 03-08-2011 11:06AM

Seachmall wrote: »

SELFISH
1 : concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others
2 : arising from concern with one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of others <a selfish act> - Miriam-Webster

Those who commit suicide because they feel like they are a burden on others are not being selfish. They may have a warped perspective in comparison to the rest of us as a result of a severe mental illness but they believe they are acting to benefit others.

This isn't every case but each case of suicide is different and to label all those who end their lives as selfish is a ridiculous generalization and shows ignorance to what the person was going through.

I know you already said not every case is like the one most people assume with sucide (the burden issue) but i'd just like to add some people, in my own experience actually lose all care for their family and friends while depressed. So when they commit sucide or think about it they arent thinking about being a burden, they can be thinking what a burden the rest of the world and everyone in it is. Not everyones depression stems from self esteem problems.

Someone i know was ready to go ahead and at the last day admits they only pulled the plug did so because the one person thwy gave a shred of care for looked so desprately at them and begged them not to, they didnt go aheax. Again, not out of really love but sheer annoyance at first and eventually because the sucidical person realised they would just be "part of the problem" with the world if they ended it.

I think suicide is in some cases about themselves rather than others but at the end of the day its all mental illness, so not exactly somwthing you can blame them for.

I have been to a funeral of a sucide victim and known a few others. Its terrible but in my experience theres a different feeling to them compared to a childs funeral.

chloek · 03-08-2011 01:00PM

Thankfully I have not been to a funeral of a suicide person. I remembered watching this piece on the late late show and it was heartbreaking.To lose a son and then his girlfriend must be devastating for both families.

http://www.rte.ie/tv/latelate/20110415.html

click on more to get the piece on suicide.

mw9121970 · 05-08-2011 03:20AM

mw9121970 wrote: »

I understand where you are coming from. Maybe I'm just still a bit raw about what has happened and the circumstances surrounding it. But I certainly would not use the word glamorous, then again maybe I being a bit too sensitive.

The reason I understand where this person is coming frrom is that
1. I understand why he did what he did.
2. How do I explain to my 7 year old daughter why her uncle is not around anymore???

chloek · 05-08-2011 11:26PM

mw9121970 wrote: »

The reason I understand where this person is coming frrom is that
1. I understand why he did what he did.
2. How do I explain to my 7 year old daughter why her uncle is not around anymore???

she is to young to understand at the moment. talk about him as normal. she will miss having him around especially if he was a big part of her life.

sorry for your loss.

decembersun77 · 05-08-2011 11:58PM

No, I have never been to a funeral like that. It would be very sad there would be nothing left to say. Saying 'sorry' wouldn't be enough it's very painful

mw9121970 · 06-08-2011 12:00AM

chloek wrote: »

she is to young to understand at the moment. talk about him as normal. she will miss having him around especially if he was a big part of her life.

sorry for your loss.

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply. I have found it a great help just even to put words to what is going on in my head through this forum. And I also get great comfort from other people like yourself. Thanks.

locked_out · 06-08-2011 12:12AM

paperclip2 wrote: »

I did this Suicide Intervention training a year ago. It's excellent and it works well. Its a two day course open to anyone working with the public and is free of charge.

http://www.nosp.ie/asist_2.pdf

Any stats to back up this program? The majority of suicide cases slip through the cracks. Courses like the above aren't going to stop people killing themselves. The HSE gets an F- for this attempt.

decembersun77 · 06-08-2011 12:20AM

locked_out wrote: »

Any stats to back up this program? The majority of suicide cases slip through the cracks. Courses like the above aren't going to stop people killing themselves. The HSE gets an F- for this attempt.

Well the health system here is frightingly substandard so the mental health care is a complete joke. Many people who end their lifes have a mental health problem and don't know it many of them havn't been through the mental health services at all. Some have but their is little help and support.