David Norris - Post-Revelations

Biggins · 04-08-2011 11:46pm

Post Norris - it seems there yet might still be another new candidate.

TDs hope to unveil alternative candidate

Independent TDs who previously supported David Norris are hoping to unveil a new candidate over the next three weeks.
Dublin North Central TD Finian McGrath confirmed that he and other Independents were going to seek a new candidate.
Mr McGrath said they had a shortlist of three highly respected people -- "with no political baggage" -- in mind.
However, he said they had not contacted any of them yet and therefore would not be naming them in advance.
"We feel there's a big gap in the market now that David's gone off the pitch," he said.
Disillusioned Norris supporters are planning to spoil their ballots in protest at his absence from the presidential contest on October 27.
Mr McGrath urged them not to do so.

Ballot

"I would be totally opposed to that because if a credible person is on the ballot paper, it could damage that person," he said.

But Norris supporters who feel he should still stand are pledging to write his name on the ballot paper. This would instantly turn the ballot into a spoiled vote.

The call has been made by the administrator of his unofficial Facebook page. Ronan Mooney said he and his fellow Norris supporters wanted to protest about what they claimed were "undemocratic" and "unfair" means of presidential candidate selection.

The move is unlikely to be supported by Mr Norris himself, who said that he hoped the election would be conducted in a way that was "dignified and respectful of the Office of President and of the remaining candidates".

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/tds-hope-to-unveil-alternative-candidate-2839329.html

HarryPotter41 · 04-08-2011 11:53pm

CrystalLettuce wrote: »

Talk about showing your privelege!

I made a valid point that people who are socially conservative and not gay are far from the best to comment on how much discrimination as they exist outside that realm of experience.

And then you retort on his behalf with this bull****.

Oh, here we go again. Those homosexual peasants are complaining about how we treat them again. Tut, tut! Having to listen to them is such a bother.

You are essentially admitting that you do not, in any way whatsoever, care about the issues of discrimination and exclusion homosexuals still face today.

People like you should not be allowed within 100 feet of an argument.

Regardless of whether there was homophobic motive in the smear campaign against Norris, there is a vast amount of insensitivity being displayed here.

Your comments say much about you, not the person you are directing them at. Gay people are actually horrifed at what Norris has done judging by many of the post in LGBT forum on this issue. As for the feelings of exclusion you discuss, the gay people I know seem to be fully integrated into society so if you could tell what exactly you mean it would be great so that we can debate your points rather than wild generalisations

jill_valentine · 04-08-2011 11:54pm

That kind of makes it sound like this mystery candidate is just going to wait under a big sparkly sheet for the next few weeks.

Show Time · 04-08-2011 11:56pm

It seems this thread is running out of steam.

Biggins · 04-08-2011 11:56pm

jill_valentine wrote: »

That kind of makes it sound like this mystery candidate is just going to wait under a big sparkly sheet for the next few weeks.

Probably waiting for the last few weeks stuff to die off a bit.

HarryPotter41 · 04-08-2011 11:56pm

CrystalLettuce wrote: »

Also, pointing out fallacious reasoning is a perfectly valid tactic. I would hardly say my style consists "entirely" of insults, as opposed to yours which lies entirely on idiotic assumptions such as "older=better".

Your debating style is also full of inaccuracies as I have never said older = better and if you can quote my post where I said such a thing that would be fantastic. I have actually spent the vast majority of my spare time in the last 20 years delaing with young people so at this stage it could well happen I know more about how they think than you do. I await the quote of my post with baited breath.

LighterGuy · 05-08-2011 12:14am

I have heard about the letter from norris.
But heard something interesting today ...

I heard that the person in question that norris tried to help (his ex lover or what ever) was done for statutory rape. That the 15 year old teenager lied and said he was 19 years old ...

if this is genuine. I dont think norris should be punished for this. This can happen to anyone. Gay or straight. You meet a girl in the club, she says shes 19. Turns out shes only 15. You get done for statutory rape.

I call media spin on this by his opposition.

HarryPotter41 · 05-08-2011 12:18am

LighterGuy wrote: »

I have heard about the letter from norris.
But heard something interesting today ...

I heard that the person in question that norris tried to help (his ex lover or what ever) was done for statutory rape. That the 15 year old teenager lied and said he was 19 years old ...

if this is genuine. I dont think norris should be punished for this. This can happen to anyone. Gay or straight. You meet a girl in the club, she says shes 19. Turns out shes only 15. You get done for statutory rape.

I call media spin on this by his opposition.

I call it a crime, whatever the lad said.

LighterGuy · 05-08-2011 12:20am

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

I call it a crime, whatever the lad said.

But what if that happened to you?
you have sex with someone that lied about their age?
would you been so willing to hold your hand up and say "yup, im guilty" or would dispute

K-9 · 05-08-2011 12:30am

LighterGuy wrote: »

I have heard about the letter from norris.
But heard something interesting today ...

I heard that the person in question that norris tried to help (his ex lover or what ever) was done for statutory rape. That the 15 year old teenager lied and said he was 19 years old ...

if this is genuine. I dont think norris should be punished for this. This can happen to anyone. Gay or straight. You meet a girl in the club, she says shes 19. Turns out shes only 15. You get done for statutory rape.

I call media spin on this by his opposition.

As a 37 year old man, yeah I'd find a 19 year old looking girl attractive and I'd be immensely flattered if she returned the attention but I'd hope my brain would over ride my dick at that stage.

The 19 year old defence doesn't wash for me here. double my age after all.

Now for the particular case, it is a context that it may not have been statutory rape in the defendent's mind. I think this was taken account of in the 6 month sentence handed down so largely superfluous.

alejandro1977 · 05-08-2011 12:35am

Biggins wrote: »

Had Gay Mitchell asked for clemency for ALL killers on death row - or just this one?

Actually he has.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/1998/1215/98121500035.html

You're welcome.

Has Norris asked for clemency for all Pederasts or just the ones he's in a relationship with ? Has he been as open in his appeals?

I look forward to your answer.

Biggins · 05-08-2011 12:37am

alejandro1977 wrote: »

Actually he has.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/1998/1215/98121500035.html

You're welcome.

Has Norris asked for clemency for all Pederasts or just the ones he's in a relationship with ? Has he been as open in his appeals?

I look forward to your answer.

Thanks - will you pay our subscription fee to that we can actually see the article?

And to repeat what I already said THREE times (but clearly in your rush to get a dig in at a fellow member, you missed the following three times),

"if he did so fair play to him."

I suspect that answer won't be suffice though!

Pompey Magnus · 05-08-2011 12:47am

LighterGuy wrote: »

I have heard about the letter from norris.
But heard something interesting today ...

I heard that the person in question that norris tried to help (his ex lover or what ever) was done for statutory rape. That the 15 year old teenager lied and said he was 19 years old ...

if this is genuine. I dont think norris should be punished for this. This can happen to anyone. Gay or straight. You meet a girl in the club, she says shes 19. Turns out shes only 15. You get done for statutory rape.

I call media spin on this by his opposition.

Pinning the blame now on the victim of the statutory rape? Classy.

7sr2z3fely84g5 · 05-08-2011 12:53am

Lighter guy has a point,same scenario could happen in a pub.

of course most righteous posters here will say you should know better :rolleyes:

HarryPotter41 · 05-08-2011 12:57am

Alivia Square Alphabet wrote: »

Lighter guy has a point,same scenario could happen in a pub.

of course most righteous posters here will say you should know better :rolleyes:

Because you should, why would somebody 40 be sniffing around someone that age anyway.

7sr2z3fely84g5 · 05-08-2011 1:00am

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Because you should, why would somebody 40 be sniffing around someone that age anyway.

it could happen to anyone,you could meet a girl in a nightclub,she tells you she a certain age,sure you might believe it since she's getting served or even has an id card,some girls are small and still get asked for id in certain places due to their height.

Any junior cert result nights they have pics of them in the tabloid papers dressed up to the last,they could easily pass for 18 year olds.

StupidLikeAFox · 05-08-2011 1:03am

Anybody actually got a link to the Gay Mitchell letter? It seems a bit unfair to judge him without reading it first.

Biggins · 05-08-2011 1:03am

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Because you should, why would somebody 40 be sniffing around someone that age anyway.

True but then why would 50 years old's be sniffing around 16 years olds as well?

* http://uk.eonline.com/uberblog/b248227_green_mile_actor_51_marries_16-year-old.html#ixzz1Px8EIFdt

In either case, sometimes the general consensus is that its morally wrong (and maybe so) but it still happens.

(I'm personally NOT trying to justify either - the above is just an example)

Pompey Magnus · 05-08-2011 1:05am

Biggins wrote: »

Thanks - will you pay our subscription fee to that we can actually see the article?

And to repeat what I already said THREE times (but clearly in your rush to get a dig in at a fellow member, you missed the following three times),

I suspect that answer won't be suffice though!

Getting away from the specifics of this case for a moment, the attention Gay Mitchell is getting for his letter has put lie to the claim of Norris supporters that he was getting unfair attention due to some agenda in which homophobia was more than strongly implied.

It is being talked about in the print media, on TV and discussed on the internet - just like Norris' case. This is how campaigns are run, an anti Norris supporter uncovered dirt on Norris and he had to answer it, pro Norris supporters then uncover something on Gay Mitchell and use it to ask why Mitchell isn't equally being scrutinesed, however once they publicised his letter they disproved their own conspiracy theory because it then did begin to get discussed.

For the record Gay Mitchell is probably bottom of my candidates I want to see win and even I don't think he has much to answer for in this case.

Pompey Magnus · 05-08-2011 1:09am

Alivia Square Alphabet wrote: »

Lighter guy has a point,same scenario could happen in a pub.

of course most righteous posters here will say you should know better :rolleyes:

There we go ladies and gentlemen, for someone to think a person should know better than put thenselves in the position where they have sex with a 15 year old minor is now apparently being "righteous" in their views.

K-9 · 05-08-2011 1:11am

Alivia Square Alphabet wrote: »

Lighter guy has a point,same scenario could happen in a pub.

of course most righteous posters here will say you should know better :rolleyes:

Yep and seems to have been taken account of in this case, hence the 6 month sentence.

Judges take pleadings into account in these things.

You realise the guy was 40?

LighterGuy · 05-08-2011 1:12am

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Pinning the blame now on the victim of the statutory rape? Classy.

Nope.
Not doing that. But what could be said as "really classy" is twisting someones post just like you did. Real classy.
But if it happened to YOU, or someone close to you and it was indeed genuine. You'd be signing a different tune.

Alivia Square Alphabet wrote: »

Lighter guy has a point,same scenario could happen in a pub.

of course most righteous posters here will say you should know better

Spot on.
And I pay no attention to any bloke of age who says he wouldnt have sex with 18/19yo girl that he deems to be of genuine age. Its all absolute bull****, through and through.

Biggins · 05-08-2011 1:12am

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Getting away from the specifics of this case for a moment, the attention Gay Mitchell is getting for his letter has put lie to the claim of Norris supporters that he was getting unfair attention due to some agenda in which homophobia was more than strongly implied.

It is being talked about in the print media, on TV and discussed on the internet - just like Norris' case. This is how campaigns are run, an anti Norris supporter uncovered dirt on Norris and he had to answer it, pro Norris supporters then uncover something on Gay Mitchell and use it to ask why Mitchell isn't equally being scrutinesed, however once they publicised his letter they disproved their own conspiracy theory because it then did begin to get discussed.

For the record Gay Mitchell is probably bottom of my candidates I want to see win and even I don't think he has much to answer for in this case.

You have a point to be fair.
These things are getting ever increasingly messy and dirty.
The media and the public (and that includes I and maybe others if they are honest with me) are often dragged down into this spiral of poor process.
I don't see a foreseeable solution or other way of doing things coming forth but if one did appear, honestly, I'd welcome it.
The present reaction though is to 'fight fire with fire' and again being honest, I can understand where that is coming from too.

I can't see things improving - and I (and I'm guessing, we all) would like to though!

7sr2z3fely84g5 · 05-08-2011 1:12am

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

There we go ladies and gentlemen, for someone to think a person should know better than put thenselves in the position where they have sex with a 15 year old minor is now apparently being "righteous" in their views.

Put the moral issues aside,if the age was legal for consent we cant judge on who rides who.

Obviously in this case it wasn't.

K-9 · 05-08-2011 1:29am

LighterGuy wrote: »

Spot on.
And I pay no attention to any bloke of age who says he wouldnt have sex with 18/19yo girl that he deems to be of genuine age. Its all absolute bull****, through and through.

I'd stop watching porn on the internet tbh.

Spread · 05-08-2011 1:50am

K-9 wrote: »

I'd stop watching porn on the internet tbh.

Far too expensive and slow moving on dial up.

alejandro1977 · 05-08-2011 1:58am

Biggins wrote: »

alejandro1977 wrote: »

Actually he has.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/1998/1215/98121500035.html

You're welcome.

Has Norris asked for clemency for all Pederasts or just the ones he's in a relationship with ? Has he been as open in his appeals?

I look forward to your answer.

Thanks - will you pay our subscription fee to that we can actually see the article?
!

The extract shown is more than sufficient for those who are fair minded.

Biggins · 05-08-2011 2:00am

alejandro1977 wrote: »

The extract shown is more than sufficient for those who are fair minded.

Its a decent start alright - to be fair.
(and I try to be, believe it or not.)

Spread · 05-08-2011 5:03am

"I deeply regret the most recent of all the controversies concerning my former partner of twenty five years ago, Ezra Nawi. The fallout from his disgraceful behaviour has now spread to me and is in danger of contaminating others close to me both in my political and personal life. It is essential that I act decisively now to halt this negative process.
I do not regret supporting and seeking clemency for a friend, but I do regret giving the impression that I did not have sufficient compassion for the victim of Ezra’s crime.

In his final sentence, Norris gives an apology for "giving the impression that I did not have sufficient compassion for the victim ......". This new found compassion only came after he realised that he had fcuked up yet again and he tries to salvage something. In the first sentence, he still does not get it ........ the fact that he brought this on himself, by writing the letter in which he tried to get a convicted homosexual paedophile off the hook. He should apologise to the boy and his family and beg their forgiveness. He should also apologise to his own supporters. Their naivity should not have been abused. And finally, he should apologise to all the homosexuals in Ireland ....... for conning them into thinking that his opposers were homophobic.

HarryPotter41 · 05-08-2011 5:09am

Alivia Square Alphabet wrote: »

it could happen to anyone,you could meet a girl in a nightclub,she tells you she a certain age,sure you might believe it since she's getting served or even has an id card,some girls are small and still get asked for id in certain places due to their height.

Any junior cert result nights they have pics of them in the tabloid papers dressed up to the last,they could easily pass for 18 year olds.

Which still begs the question why somebody 40 would be sniffing around them

David Norris - Post-Revelations

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