Do you see a future for yourself, family, potential family in Ireland?

D1stant · 03-08-2011 11:58PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Once again, your incorrect inferences aren't my problem. It wouldn't be normal for any of my peers to assume that a houseful of people were housemates rather than a family, since they live in families rather than flatshares. Perhaps your frame of reference is different.

You weren't expected to read my mind - simply not to make unsubstantiated presumptions (such as that I was referring to an entire nation when the post made clear I was referring to a small number of people I personally knew, or indeed such as assuming I live with flatmates.)

I'm glad you concur it doesn't matter. Clearly that's why you keep posting about it. I get the impression you're the kind of person who has to win an argument. In which case, I'll permit you this one, and given that you didn't have an answer for any of the substantive points I made about the economy, I'll take that one.

Gods speed. Send us a postcard

steddyeddy · 04-08-2011 12:01AM

uberalles wrote: »

Im self employed. Increasingly businesses are stretching credit terms.
Also Ive never had so many queries on invoices months after the work is done.
A lot of these people are very wealthy and are just acting the bol0x

Born breed and buttered here but I really don’t know if I can do 10+ years of survival here. I did the 80s and don’t know if there is another 80s left in me.

Yes there is some really really stupid people in well paid useless jobs in this country a lot because their aunty mary knows someone in the council. There is too many people in this country working hard and trying to make a decent living while the inherited and privileged are taking the micheal. I dont want my taxs to go towards this system.

Daisy03 · 04-08-2011 12:02AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

With my particular skillset, I'd be primarily looking to the English-speaking world, most likely North America.
However, I'm aware that most of those countries also have economic difficulties, but not as exacerbated as we do.
In an ideal situation, I'd like to be moving to one of the countries on the way up rather than on the way down. Instead, it's more a game of 'pick the least fecked.'

You honestly think that North America is a better place to live than Ireland?

First off take the fact that you will be working much longer hours than in a comparable job in Europe and have around 10 days holidays a year, your work-life balance will be shot!

Second, their health system is a joke! Expect to pay through the nose for health insurance.

And finally, what if your children have children of their own? It costs a small fortune to put one child through the education system from primary to third level.

Oh and by the way, the reason their economic problems seem less pressing is because its not thrown in your face everyday on TV and other media forms as it is here. Anyone who even keeps an eye on the markets and finance in general would tell you that they are up sh!t creek.

steddyeddy · 04-08-2011 12:03AM

Daisy03 wrote: »

You honestly think that North America is a better place to live than Ireland?

First off take the fact that you will be working much longer hours than in a comparable job in Europe and have around 10 days holidays a year, your work-life balance will be shot!

Second, their health system is a joke! Expect to pay through the nose for health insurance.

And finally, what if your children have children of their own? It costs a small fortune to put one child through the education system from primary to third level.

Oh and by the way, the reason their economic problems seem less pressing is because its not thrown in your face everyday on TV and other media forms as it is here. Anyone who even keeps an eye on the markets and finance in general would tell you that they are up sh!t creek.

Having lived there I think the fact about america is you can work your way up to most levels that for me is the apeal.

CommuterIE · 04-08-2011 12:06AM

Daisy03 wrote: »

You honestly think that North America is a better place to live than Ireland?

First off take the fact that you will be working much longer hours than in a comparable job in Europe and have around 10 days holidays a year, your work-life balance will be shot!

Second, their health system is a joke! Expect to pay through the nose for health insurance.

And finally, what if your children have children of their own? It costs a small fortune to put one child through the education system from primary to third level.

Oh and by the way, the reason their economic problems seem less pressing is because its not thrown in your face everyday on TV and other media forms as it is here. Anyone who even keeps an eye on the markets and finance in general would tell you that they are up sh!t creek.

I'm sorry, but you talking complete tripe...

First off, to graduate High School, you don't pay a cent... these are not private institutions

Second off, if you earn a Scholarship you go to college for free (includes military)

Third off, you can apply for grants

professore · 04-08-2011 12:07AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Daisy03 wrote: »

You honestly think that North America is a better place to live than Ireland?

First off take the fact that you will be working much longer hours than in a comparable job in Europe and have around 10 days holidays a year, your work-life balance will be shot!

Second, their health system is a joke! Expect to pay through the nose for health insurance.

And finally, what if your children have children of their own? It costs a small fortune to put one child through the education system from primary to third level.

Oh and by the way, the reason their economic problems seem less pressing is because its not thrown in your face everyday on TV and other media forms as it is here. Anyone who even keeps an eye on the markets and finance in general would tell you that they are up sh!t creek.

Having lived there I think the fact about america is you can work your way up to most levels that for me is the apeal.

You can here too. We are screwed though.

Daisy03 · 04-08-2011 12:07AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Having lived there I think the fact about america is you can work your way up to most levels that for me is the apeal.

But surely with hard work that is true of a lot of places, Ireland included?

steddyeddy · 04-08-2011 12:08AM

Daisy03 wrote: »

But surely with hard work that is true of a lot of places, Ireland included?

Im not bashing Ireland I love our country with a passion. I should have phrased that better, what I should have said is there is too many people in this country in good position withouth the hard work.

steddyeddy · 04-08-2011 12:09AM

professore wrote: »

You can here too. We are screwed though.

Well america is in trouble too, I had the same problem with certain aspects of the country during the celtic tiger too.

Balloon Of a fish in C. · 04-08-2011 12:13AM

Corner shop ,thats us at the moment. A makeover is all we need ,get oul fergal quinn to wave his wand and we'll be flying again

Cavehill Red · 04-08-2011 12:13AM

Daisy03 wrote: »

You honestly think that North America is a better place to live than Ireland?

'Better' is both relative and subjective. For me in my circumstances, yes is the answer. For others, maybe not.

Daisy03 wrote: »

First off take the fact that you will be working much longer hours than in a comparable job in Europe and have around 10 days holidays a year, your work-life balance will be shot!

My employment averages 50 to 60 hours per week already. I've often had to work while on holiday. While what you say might be true for someone leaving an Irish public sector sinecure, I won't notice much of a difference, except in my wage packet, which will be bigger.

Daisy03 wrote: »

Second, their health system is a joke! Expect to pay through the nose for health insurance.

We do here too. Our 'free' healthcare isn't free at all. I'd like to see (and experience) a more continental model of care to be honest. But you can't have everything, and if you can afford the insurance, the healthcare in North America is excellent.

Daisy03 wrote: »

And finally, what if your children have children of their own? It costs a small fortune to put one child through the education system from primary to third level.

It costs a small fortune here too. I know, because I'm nearly finished paying it.

Daisy03 wrote: »

Oh and by the way, the reason their economic problems seem less pressing is because its not thrown in your face everyday on TV and other media forms as it is here. Anyone who even keeps an eye on the markets and finance in general would tell you that they are up sh!t creek.

No, I'd be pretty aware of the economic problems in most of the English speaking countries, which is why I already mentioned them. I'd be concerned about the US debt levels too, to be honest. Their economy is heading downward too. But Ireland is looking straight down the mire of a default. It's a disaster of another order. And things in the likes of Canada aren't nearly as bad. Even Britain is in miles better shape than we are. As I said earlier, it's a case of 'pick the least fecked' from my personal perspective, and ideally, it would be nice to be going somewhere on the up.

Daisy03 · 04-08-2011 12:14AM

CommuterIE wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you talking complete tripe...

First off, to graduate High School, you don't pay a cent... these are not private institutions

Second off, if you earn a Scholarship you go to college for free (includes military)

Third off, you can apply for grants

Not everyone gets a scholarship and grants not only are limited but often don't come anywhere close to paying the full amount.

A very close family friend is American and completed all of her education in the US all the way up to her PhD. She is 41 years old and keeps a US bank account open for the sole purpose of paying off her student loan. She has a very decent job and got scholarships along the way. She attended good schools but not Ivy league.

steddyeddy · 04-08-2011 12:21AM

True american third level education is a lot higher often tens of thousands of dollars higher.

x_Ellie_x · 04-08-2011 12:26AM

Right now I'm considering immigration. The company I was working for closed down in March and I've been searching for a job since then and having absolutely no luck. I even went around all the shops in Liffey Valley a few weeks ago looking for a job. I thought a job in retail might do me until I manage to get a job in my chosen career, but most of the stores weren't hiring and the ones that where wouldn't hire me cause I've no retail experience. All of the friends I've had since childhood have already left. If I don't get another job by next March I might have to leave the country too.

Melanoma · 04-08-2011 12:28AM

I predicted the recession, the housing bubble and called for tax rises during the boom years. I also while working for the government called for wage restraint and increases in stamp duty. People thought I was too serious and they did not want to know. In fairness everybody could see the sense in we will have a soft landing. This turned out not to be true but it has been a bit worse than even I thought it would be.

My prediction is for a return to growth, with severe wage restraint over the next 8 years, higher local taxation and a divergence between the middle class and the ruling elite, which is exactly what they wanted.

I am a right wing person that does not believe in social programs that go on for ever, health care by government etc. What I totally despise though is cronny politics and cushy elitist work groups.

I believe we can see a return to a better standard of living in Ireland but only if we relentlessly attack these forces. I expect I wont be listened to, I never did before.

That said I actually do believe Irish people are not lacking the ability to work this out for themselves and I am very hopeful of this. I pray it will not be too late. Time is short.

Dangerous Man · 04-08-2011 12:29AM

Daisy03 wrote: »

You honestly think that North America is a better place to live than Ireland?

First off take the fact that you will be working much longer hours than in a comparable job in Europe and have around 10 days holidays a year, your work-life balance will be shot!

Second, their health system is a joke! Expect to pay through the nose for health insurance.

And finally, what if your children have children of their own? It costs a small fortune to put one child through the education system from primary to third level.

Oh and by the way, the reason their economic problems seem less pressing is because its not thrown in your face everyday on TV and other media forms as it is here. Anyone who even keeps an eye on the markets and finance in general would tell you that they are up sh!t creek.

I'm hoping that by 'North America' you mean the United States of America, and not the continent of North America. Because if you mean the latter... you're utterly clueless.

Daisy03 · 04-08-2011 01:18AM

Dangerous Man wrote: »

I'm hoping that by 'North America' you mean the United States of America, and not the continent of North America. Because if you mean the latter... you're utterly clueless.

If you had actually read the post I was replying to, you would see that Cavehill Red used the term "North America" and I was responding to this. But yes, I was refering to the United States of America as the poster was not clear as to whether he was refering to Canada or the US.

04-08-2011 08:36AM

At this point, no.. Nothing to do with the economy or whatever, just think 22 years in one place is quite enough. None of my older brothers have settled there and I'll probably do the same.

Crazy Horse 6 · 04-08-2011 08:41AM

parker kent wrote: »

Life goes on. Ireland didn't die out in the 80s, we'll still exist in 10 years and I'm sure people will still be riding and having kids.

A lot of recession chat is needlessly dramatic.

I was around in the 80's this is far far worse.

Lord TSC · 04-08-2011 08:53AM

RE: The appeal of America...

The problem seems to be that "The American Dream" makes people think they can go to America and do whatever they want; that America is some amazing land where all dreams can come through. The media perpetuate that sentiment, ignoring their debt problems (I mean, from what I understand, the country nearly ran out of money and had to default on their debts. That's not the sign of a country that's doing well economically, is it?). The attitude in America is if you go and work hard, you can advance in life. People will look up to you and reward you for working. You can supposidly get massively rewarded by working .

In Ireland, that dream doesn't exist. Rather the attitude is bred in people that they should get everything they want straight away and if you don't, leave straight away. In Ireland, you're mocked if you work hard. You're not encouraged to work hard in school and in employment, and success is laughed at. If there's a problem, the media do everything they can to sensationalise it and make it seem worse (leaving our people depressed and more willing to leave), and to top that off, we never do anything about it. We've got 400,000 people unemployed, but no protests, no demonstrations against the way the government is screwing people over with schemes like Slavebridge or over the false promises that were made in the run up to the election.

As a people, we're being taught that if things aren't as you like in Ireland, you bugger off. You don't fight to actually change them. You don't work to make the country better. The only people who protest are the OAPs and the public sector staff, and when the latter do, they seem to be widely criticised. No, in this country, we take the egocentric option of doing whats best for the individual and leaving. As has been said, the people who are leaving are the ones who we should be holding on to and who the government should be fighting for. Failing that, it's the ones leaving we need to help organise and lead the protest marches and demonstrations letting them know whats happening is not on. Hell, the unemployed are the ones in the best position to be protesting 7 days a week in terms of available time.

If we took the people who had the inclination and the motivation to emigrate and asked them to band together and help fix the country, maybe we wouldn't be in this mess.

04-08-2011 08:56AM

I have no problem living here, but I never really saw myself settled here long term. I don't know though, I'm happy to continue here for a while at least

04-08-2011 09:07AM

Why do an lot of people, once they have children want to come back to Ireland if it is such a bad place?

Not all of course.

RedXIV · 04-08-2011 09:26AM

I'm kinda nailed down to Ireland at the moment even though I've a good job here with plenty of advancement prospects. I've given thought to moving abroad but mainly to get into my desired industry.

If I wasn't nailed down I'd be looking into it alot more.

In saying that, The fact that I've a good job and hearing stories about the 80s makes me think "Don't be a fool, stay put in the good job" - lesser of two evils sort of thing

jester77 · 04-08-2011 09:38AM

I left around 10 years ago just as all the madness was taking off. I never understood it and still don't, people just lost the run of themselves and are now paying the price. I can't see myself returning, there is just too much wrong with Ireland and the attitude of too many people is so wrong. Maybe it's easier to see that looking from the outside in and not having lived through the madness and sense of entitlement that people had and still have.

I'm happy living somewhere where things work and you can see where your tax money goes. There is no begrudgery and people are genuinely sincere and hard working. I lived though the 80's in Ireland and it was hard going, but the next decade is going to be much worse. At least in the 80's people were not straddled with the debt that the current generation are.

04-08-2011 09:47AM

I couldn't see myself being happy anywhere other than Ireland. So yes, my future is here.

Eve_Dublin · 04-08-2011 09:47AM

I'll be home but not for another 10 years. Love the country and want to raise my kids there but there's more I want to experience before I head home and I want to get qualified in something so I can go home and contribute something instead of just going home to live with my parents, claiming job seekers (not entitled to the dole) and working in a supermarket. I could honestly think of worse places to call home.

imme · 04-08-2011 09:47AM

quit yisser moaning

csm · 04-08-2011 09:59AM

I'd come home in a heartbeat if there was a job for me. Unfortunately there wasn't much in my industry even in the good times so I was in the UK and now in Aus. I'd like to think that in years to come there'll be some way for me to come back. It's not perfect but I love it regardless of the crap weather and feckless politicians.

ceadaoin. · 04-08-2011 10:14AM

I moved to London 3 years ago. I had a decent job in Ireland (in fact, was earning more there than I do here

) but my partner was offered a great job and we decided to make the move. Currently I'm expecting my first child and I can't see myself living back in Ireland anytime soon.

alexjk · 04-08-2011 10:32AM

I recently moved to another country, I spent a year unemployed after graduation in Ireland but I got a job here (France) immediately.

It's not all about a job though, Ireland is a great place to grow up in but I always had the intention of leaving as an adult. Things can get a little samey when you only have a population of 4.5 million

Do you see a future for yourself, family, potential family in Ireland?

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