Do you see a future for yourself, family, potential family in Ireland?

easyeason3 · 03-08-2011 11:13PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Many of the jobs in IT require foreign languages, I note from employment websites. Which suggests to me that they may be call centre-related. In any case, they tend to go to foreign nationals.
And while we do have a useful IT business infrastructure here, I would fear that it could transpire to be as mobile as the former computer manufacturing industry here was. In my experience, many IT entrepreneurs I'm aware of have already headed for Calif or London.
I couldn't comment on science except, again, anecdotally. Of all the recent science graduates I know, which is admittedly not too many, only one is employed and that in the public sector in an unrelated employment field. The rest are unemployed, in further education or abroad. I've heard of post-doc lab positions for 25K, which is hardly going to entice people to remain here.
There may well be jobs in engineering, but it would seem to me that the downturn of construction projects will have an adverse affect there too.
I hope you understand, I'm not trying to rubbish what you're saying. Of course Ireland is not the Horn of Africa. But our economy has been effectively destroyed for a long time to come, and that has knock-on effects in terms of living standards, infrastructure, employment prospects and a lot of other things that people might wish to have in their lives. And seeking those things, those people will inevitably move abroad.

You said in an earlier post that you plan on emigrating.
Where do you plan on going & why pick that country?

Sleepy · 03-08-2011 11:19PM

I can see a fairly impoverished future for myself and my family but we're stuck here. Were I in the position to emigrate, I'd already be in Sydney or the UK tbh.

Cavehill Red · 03-08-2011 11:19PM

parker kent wrote: »

That does not mention your housemates.

I said that we would all have completed education "soon enough, thank God". Since more people enter education every year, it's obviously impossible to interpret that as referring to the entire nation. Nevertheless you did so, presumably because you skimmed what I'd written or else wished to deliberately misinterpret what I'd written.

parker kent wrote: »

Saying they are misplaced allegations of sensationalism and then following that up with bull about "two decades of pointless impoverishment" is sensational wouldn't you say?

Not at all. The impoverishment is the result of the state taking liability for debts accrued by banks. Hence pointless. It burdened all of us with a debt that we never accrued, and hence had not benefitted from.
This mistake - the conflation of Celtic Tiger excess with the state of the nation's debt crisis - is a common error. We're not in this crap because people bought houses for too much or had flash holidays and cars. Those who did so still owe those debts personally. The state's debt is a large multiple of our recent deficit, singularly as a result of Lenihan's insane decision to assume liability for broken banks.
That leaves the debate over how long it will take to process this debt. Germany finally paid off a similarly scaled debt following WW1 only a couple of years ago. In the intervening 90 odd years, they admittedly suffered another war defeat, but followed that up with decades of exceptional manufacturing and export success.
On the basis of that single example, I'd say 20 years was me being optimistic. What is much more likely to happen is a sovereign default, which would be significantly uglier again than a couple of decades of moribund stagflation where every penny of profit we turn gets handed over to AIB's creditors.

parker kent wrote: »

Unless you have access to a crystal ball and are 100% positive that all the people staying are signing up for such a dramatic outcome?

Two points here - it doesn't take a crystal ball to be aware that the national debt is now utterly unsustainable and that kicking the can repeatedly down the road will result in Japanese style stagnation without their export capacity or indigenous savings to draw upon.
Secondly, I agree with you. People haven't signed up for what's coming. I think the vast majority of people are still hoping it will all somehow work out fine and go away. The dreams of quickly returning to the Celtic Tiger are finally dying off, but I see no evidence that people in general comprehend that economies can go backwards and quite dramatically so, nor that they realise that Ireland isn't just flirting with such an event but is already enmired in it.

Dangerous Man · 03-08-2011 11:19PM

Mickjg wrote: »

I moved stateside last year and to be honest I don't really see a future for me there. I loved living in Ireland, and there's plenty of things I miss but not enough to bring me home. I feel that the scumbag element is just so off putting and there's no future there in my career.

I went back for a two week holiday, had a nice time but was happy to be leaving.

It makes me sick to say it but I have to agree with this. I love Dublin so much but scummers are allowed to walk around and just ruin people's lives with no recriminations. I was there recently and the sheer amount of them depressed me; it really is getting worse. Where I live now, it's just not tolerated.

Cavehill Red · 03-08-2011 11:21PM

parker kent wrote: »

Also this is a load of nonsense. I'm staying and I'm not a farmer or in a golden circle. I'm not a third generation "doley". I have a degree and 2 masters, I'm pretty well educated. I could freely travel elsewhere if I so wished. But I want to live in Ireland and I'm getting that opportunity.

Good luck to you. It won't be easy. You may end up regretting your decision. But I admire your courage to wish to live in the land of your birth and heritage. However, for me and for many others, there are other priorities such as securing opportunity and a decent standard of living for our families.

starbelgrade · 03-08-2011 11:22PM

WE'RE ALL DOOMED!

Meh.

Cavehill Red · 03-08-2011 11:25PM

easyeason3 wrote: »

You said in an earlier post that you plan on emigrating.
Where do you plan on going & why pick that country?

With my particular skillset, I'd be primarily looking to the English-speaking world, most likely North America.
However, I'm aware that most of those countries also have economic difficulties, but not as exacerbated as we do.
In an ideal situation, I'd like to be moving to one of the countries on the way up rather than on the way down. Instead, it's more a game of 'pick the least fecked.'

ilovesleep · 03-08-2011 11:25PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

We are staring at least two decades of stagnation and depression... 70's and 80's basically, its sad but true... taxes will only go up, social welfare will go down, the only viable place to get is out of here

It doesn't bear thinking of.

For people who lived through the 80s recession - How was it? I mean I don't want to be working just to pay bills and only bills and have nothing left over at the end of each month for a meal out, or drinks, or cinema, or other leisurely activities.

parker kent · 03-08-2011 11:25PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I said that we would all have completed education "soon enough, thank God". Since more people enter education every year, it's obviously impossible to interpret that as referring to the entire nation. Nevertheless you did so, presumably because you skimmed what I'd written or else wished to deliberately misinterpret what I'd written.

Or maybe you just made bags of writing the post. Now if I were writing that post I would start:

"As my housemates and I will be finished education soon, we will..."

Anyway, enjoy leaving Ireland.

easyeason3 · 03-08-2011 11:29PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

With my particular skillset, I'd be primarily looking to the English-speaking world, most likely North America.
However, I'm aware that most of those countries also have economic difficulties, but not as exacerbated as we do.
In an ideal situation, I'd like to be moving to one of the countries on the way up rather than on the way down. Instead, it's more a game of 'pick the least fecked.'

Well best of luck to you whenever you do go.
Even if I didn't have a mortgage I don't think I'd emigrate to be honest.

Cavehill Red · 03-08-2011 11:32PM

parker kent wrote: »

Or maybe you just made bags of writing the post. Now if I were writing that post I would start:

"As my housemates and I will be finished education soon, we will..."

Anyway, enjoy leaving Ireland.

See, I wouldn't write that, because I don't have 'housemates'. I have children. Your inability to comprehend is not my problem.
I fully intend to enjoy leaving Ireland and am currently discontented solely by the fact that I can't leave sooner and start on a more successful existence more quickly.
I hope you'll find a similar joy in paying personally for the mistakes of Fingleton et al for most if not all of your productive working life.

Absurdum · 03-08-2011 11:34PM

beats being in Italy

steddyeddy · 03-08-2011 11:36PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

Do you see a future for yourself, family, potential family in Ireland?

I don't really for myself, never mind potential family

No I dont to be honest I will have to make a move after I further educate myself. Once I do that Im out. I did it before to get an education in the first place and Im sorry to say Ill do it again. Theres just to many mistakes this country is making to make life here worthwhile.

PseudoFamous · 03-08-2011 11:37PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

See, I wouldn't write that, because I don't have 'housemates'. I have children. Your inability to comprehend is not my problem.

Your inability to admit you wrote a terribly worded sentence, is, however, your problem.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I fully intend to enjoy leaving Ireland and am currently discontented solely by the fact that I can't leave sooner and start on a more successful existence more quickly.

Grass is always greener. While you say this, I get the impression that you think of many jobs as below you, and we can't do anything to change your opinion, and I personally can't be arsed mounting an argument.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I hope you'll find a similar joy in paying personally for the mistakes of Fingleton et al for most if not all of your productive working life.

Pssht, it's not as if you aren't going to be paying a pretty penny in whatever country you're going to, in some shape or form, which will be spent on things you don't approve of there, too.

Lord TSC · 03-08-2011 11:39PM

parker kent wrote: »

Also this is a load of nonsense. I'm staying and I'm not a farmer or in a golden circle. I'm not a third generation "doley". I have a degree and 2 masters, I'm pretty well educated. I could freely travel elsewhere if I so wished. But I want to live in Ireland and I'm getting that opportunity.

I'm with you Parker

I'm the same in terms of being educated and such and I've no intentions of leaving. Hell, you look at America, Italy and Spain struggling financially as well and you wonder is there anywhere that's still in a golden period?

Regardless, I grew up in Ireland, my family and friends are in Ireland and I've always been an optamistic. There's a lot of people jumping ship without even trying to do something, happy to abandon ship with sensationalist ideas running through their heads, hyperbole dripping from their tounges.

parker kent · 03-08-2011 11:39PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

See, I wouldn't write that, because I don't have 'housemates'. I have children. Your inability to comprehend is not my problem.
I fully intend to enjoy leaving Ireland and am currently discontented solely by the fact that I can't leave sooner and start on a more successful existence more quickly.
I hope you'll find a similar joy in paying personally for the mistakes of Fingleton et al for most if not all of your productive working life.

Your ability to write seems to be the problem. When people refer to students finishing education whilst referring to people in their house finishing education, it is pretty normal to infer they are housemates. Since at no stage did you say otherwise (including the numerous times the word housemates was used), I'm not sure why I have "inability to comprehend". Perhaps if you were a little clearer in your posts or expected us to read your mind a little less.

Not that it matters anyway as it just highlights how unclear the post in question was.

steddyeddy · 03-08-2011 11:40PM

ilovesleep wrote: »

It doesn't bear thinking of.

For people who lived through the 80s recession - How was it? I mean I don't want to be working just to pay bills and only bills and have nothing left over at the end of each month for a meal out, or drinks, or cinema, or other leisurely activities.

In the eighties we had no money but most of us didnt have the debts some people do now.

CommuterIE · 03-08-2011 11:40PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I'm with you Parker I'm the same in terms of being educated and such and I've no intentions of leaving. Hell, you look at America, Italy and Spain struggling financially as well and you wonder is there anywhere that's still in a golden period?

Regardless, I grew up in Ireland, my family and friends are in Ireland and I've always been an optamistic. There's a lot of people jumping ship without even trying to do something, happy to abandon ship with sensationalist ideas running through their heads, hyperbole dripping from their tounges.

America is not struggling financially :rolleyes:

Oh_Noes · 03-08-2011 11:40PM

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Grass is always greener. While you say this, I get the impression that you think of many jobs as below you, and we can't do anything to change your opinion

Luckily enough, all the top employers in the US and Australia are just hanging around the airports waiting for recently graduated young Irish people to get off the plane.

Sure if that wasn't the case you'd have to work your way up from the bottom, just like you have to do in Ireland.

easyeason3 · 03-08-2011 11:43PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

In the eighties we had no money but most of us didnt have the debts some people do now.

Very true.
My parents never owned a credit card, never had a mortgage, never had a car loan etc.
We didn't wear Levi's when they were in but we didn't go hungry either.

Geekness1234 · 03-08-2011 11:44PM

Considering the sh### I've got for being tanned I don't see why.

Princess Peach · 03-08-2011 11:45PM

Not sure my husband, Robert Downey Jr will want to settle down here.:)

ilovesleep · 03-08-2011 11:46PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

In the eighties we had no money but most of us didnt have the debts some people do now.

Thats it! Not only is there a massive defecit hanging over us, which means higher taxes, cuts, which means reduced incomes. Many people have loans on top of all this.

parker kent · 03-08-2011 11:46PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Regardless, I grew up in Ireland, my family and friends are in Ireland and I've always been an optamistic. There's a lot of people jumping ship without even trying to do something, happy to abandon ship with sensationalist ideas running through their heads, hyperbole dripping from their tounges.

Yeah I'd think pretty much like this. I know a good few people abroad and they jobs they are doing are pretty meh. Traffic wardens, delivering furniture, barmen, waitressing etc. All perfectly fine jobs, but not something I'd travel half way round the world to do. I'm glad I didn't go with them as I've got a good job now and I have decent prospects. A good education and good experience can still get you somewhere in Ireland with a bit of luck and effort. It might take 6-9 months or longer, but this is where I want to be.

steddyeddy · 03-08-2011 11:47PM

easyeason3 wrote: »

Very true.
My parents never owned a credit card, never had a mortgage, never had a car loan etc.
We didn't wear Levi's when they were in but we didn't go hungry either.

True man that would sum up my situation too at the time. I hate to sound cliched but we were happy.

ilovesleep · 03-08-2011 11:49PM

easyeason3 wrote: »

Very true.
My parents never owned a credit card, never had a mortgage, never had a car loan etc.
We didn't wear Levi's when they were in but we didn't go hungry either.

Thankfully I grew up in a one parent household and times were though for us growing up. Lived on boderline poverty in school. This was late 90s and early 00s. It thought us the value of money. I and my siblings have no debts and count our lucky stars.

Country is in debt though.

Cavehill Red · 03-08-2011 11:51PM

parker kent wrote: »

Your ability to write seems to be the problem. When people refer to students finishing education whilst referring to people in their house finishing education, it is pretty normal to infer they are housemates.

Once again, your incorrect inferences aren't my problem. It wouldn't be normal for any of my peers to assume that a houseful of people were housemates rather than a family, since they live in families rather than flatshares. Perhaps your frame of reference is different.

parker kent wrote: »

Since at no stage did you say otherwise (including the numerous times the word housemates was used), I'm not sure why I have "inability to comprehend". Perhaps if you were a little clearer in your posts or expected us to read your mind a little less.

You weren't expected to read my mind - simply not to make unsubstantiated presumptions (such as that I was referring to an entire nation when the post made clear I was referring to a small number of people I personally knew, or indeed such as assuming I live with flatmates.)

parker kent wrote: »

Not that it matters anyway as it just highlights how unclear the post in question was.

I'm glad you concur it doesn't matter. Clearly that's why you keep posting about it. I get the impression you're the kind of person who has to win an argument. In which case, I'll permit you this one, and given that you didn't have an answer for any of the substantive points I made about the economy, I'll take that one.

steddyeddy · 03-08-2011 11:51PM

ilovesleep wrote: »

Thankfully I grew up in a one parent household and times were though for us growing up. Lived on boderline poverty in school. This was late 90s and early 00s. It thought us the value of money. I and my siblings have no debts and count our lucky stars.

Neither do I thank god! It really taught me how to survive for myself.

uberalles · 03-08-2011 11:52PM

Im self employed. Increasingly businesses are stretching credit terms.
Also Ive never had so many queries on invoices months after the work is done.
A lot of these people are very wealthy and are just acting the bol0x

Born breed and buttered here but I really don’t know if I can do 10+ years of survival here. I did the 80s and don’t know if there is another 80s left in me.

Cavehill Red · 03-08-2011 11:56PM

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Grass is always greener. While you say this, I get the impression that you think of many jobs as below you, and we can't do anything to change your opinion, and I personally can't be arsed mounting an argument.

I'm not seeking to be persuaded in any case. Nor would I seek to persuade anyone else to emigrate or not. Each will make their own decision based on their own circumstances. Discussing those individual decisions and the reasons why is surely the point of the thread?
And I am experienced in my field, one in which there are few employment prospects left here, and am highly qualified. So yes, I'm not going to stay in Ireland flipping burgers just so I can feel patriotic. I have a responsibility as a parent, if not to myself, to seek better opportunities and they're elsewhere.

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Pssht, it's not as if you aren't going to be paying a pretty penny in whatever country you're going to, in some shape or form, which will be spent on things you don't approve of there, too.

Indeed, that may be the case. However, whether I personally benefitted or approved of government expenditure, it would at least be money spent for the benefit of the state, and not to pay off debts the state did not accrue. I don't mind paying tax so that old people have pensions, or so that there is hospital care, or free education for children, or roads I don't drive on. I appreciate that the state provides things collectively for the people.
But paying the debts of fraudulent bankers has not benefitted this state one iota. Better had we done an Iceland (whose economy is now already recovering.)

Do you see a future for yourself, family, potential family in Ireland?

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