Is it any wonder our country is haemorrhaging money

ebbsy · 03-08-2011 04:58PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Coddled bastards.

You are being too kind there, look at all the guys in my estate with families who cant get jobs, and then look at these LAZY PR*CKS ( union & employees and management )

CardBordWindow · 03-08-2011 04:58PM

Pay them 6 figure bonuses and double their expenses!

Phill Ewinn · 03-08-2011 05:00PM

This place went down the sh1tter a long time ago. It's only now people are reaalising.

sensibleken · 03-08-2011 05:02PM

weah! weah! weah!

red menace · 03-08-2011 05:02PM

OP, I am curious if you worked there, would you roll over and let them take this benefit away from you?

Son Of A Vidic · 03-08-2011 05:07PM

The shameless bástards, when you consider all the waste that organisation gave us.

bijapos · 03-08-2011 05:08PM

red menace wrote: »

OP, I am curious if you worked there, would you roll over and let them take this benefit away from you?

TBH I'd be too embarrassed to stand up and fight for it.

Ah well, good to see the useless unions earning their crust for once.
Bailouts, corruption, education and health cutbacks? No sign of the fcukers.
Someone gets threatened with losing a daft, inexcusable privilege they go on the barricades. Same story when it was threatened to take the extra half hour break off the civil servants so they could go and "cash their pay cheques". They backed them up then too.

Toby Take a Bow · 03-08-2011 05:12PM

bijapos wrote: »

TBH I'd be too embarrassed to stand up and fight for it.

Ah well, good to see the useless unions earning their crust for once.
Bailouts, corruption, education and health cutbacks? No sign of the fcukers.

Did one of the unions not organise the mass protest against cutbacks in November?

As far as I know, the union has to act on behalf of the people it represents. So, if the people in FAS want to take an action, the unions (having been paid by the people over the years to represent them) have to take the action. No?

jumpymunky · 03-08-2011 05:15PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Citation needed for that blanket statement because that goes against my personal experience and knowledge.

http://www.thejournal.ie/looking-for-work-dont-go-through-the-states-back-to-work-plan-report-finds-135800-May2011/

http://www.esri.ie/publications/latest_publications/view/index.xml?id=3144

washman3 · 03-08-2011 05:17PM

do our paymasters in the EU/IMF/ECB know about perks like this?
have our (2)governments not told them.?
what else is hidden away in organisations like this that we dont know about?

why were'nt perks like this abolished before €9 a week was taken from my neighbour's pension?

Another scandal. :mad:

red menace · 03-08-2011 05:17PM

bijapos wrote: »

TBH I'd be too embarrassed to stand up and fight for it.

Ah well, good to see the useless unions earning their crust for once.
Bailouts, corruption, education and health cutbacks? No sign of the fcukers.
Someone gets threatened with losing a daft, inexcusable privilege they go on the barricades. Same story when it was threatened to take the extra half hour break off the civil servants so they could go and "cash their pay cheques". They backed them up then too.

I am not saying i agree with it, it's more the knee jerk reaction to the story.
Everybody who ever worked for an organisation is automatically a waste of space.
There just seems to be so much of it.

Bank tellers: My taxes are bailing you out! I have seen plenty of abuse leveled at bank staff. Tellers don't give loans to developers

Fas. Every one of them is useless they do nothing but swan off all over the world on junkets. How do people imagine we end up with such high quality apprentices and trade people. The Irish always do quite well in the skills Olympics, not sure what the name of it is but there's a yearly competition for trade people from different countries.

TLDR; sweeping generalisations and misdirected anger are bad

Hawk Wing 2 · 03-08-2011 05:21PM

does anyone actually know anyone who ever got something decent out of this farce of an organisation?

Jagle · 03-08-2011 05:25PM

Can someone please explain why they need 44-70 days off to adjust to being OFF WORK FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVING LIVES..

if they retire at 60 they will have 20 years to adjust to being off with the current life expectancy in ireland..

does not compute, im not here to bash PS workers or Fás for the job they do/dont do.

just wonder how they can justify it..

Phill Ewinn · 03-08-2011 05:31PM

FAS tried to cut short an evening course I was doing. Last couple of classes were in an empty building withonly two staff there for the three hours that week.

People need sacking in FAS not rebranding

7sr2z3fely84g5 · 03-08-2011 05:31PM

Ye can give out all you fecking want,in the end like most state places,they get pressurised from the minister who hope the media will change their attention to another story and keep their days.

Reality alot of these people live in different world from rest of us.

Chuck Stone · 03-08-2011 05:45PM

red menace wrote: »

OP, I am curious if you worked there, would you roll over and let them take this benefit away from you?

That's not the point.

The point is whether people should have been granted such an extravagant indulgence in the first place and how long it will take to abolish.

The unions and workers who have engineered such favorable terms should have thought about how sustainable they would be in the long.

In other words it's their own fault for being short sighted and self-serving.

gifted · 03-08-2011 06:48PM

Hiya,
I worked in FAS on a 2 year temperary contract. When I had the first year done I got a pay rise of €2500, couldn't believe it. No asking for it or nothing, just given it. The stuff that goes on inside there is unbelievable, and I'm afraid to admit it but where I worked, it was mostly the Siptu stewards who controlled the place. If they saw me doing anything they would pull me to the side and tell me to stop. A pity cos the original idea for FAS was a good one but then the unions got involved.

Killer Pigeon · 03-08-2011 06:59PM

Paddy Samurai wrote: »

Boardsies,we must rally around our beleguered comrades and give them our full support in these unjustified attacks on their rightfull entitlements.

What say you brothers??.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0803/fas.html

Its terrible the way everyone keeps attacking these poor workers,after many years of public service.:rolleyes:

Fat chance. They should get up of their hole, stop licking the Unions and work like everyone else who's lucky enough to have a job.

Einhard · 03-08-2011 07:09PM

red menace wrote: »

I am not saying i agree with it, it's more the knee jerk reaction to the story.

People have read the facts of the story, and made up their minds accordingly. Hardly knee-jerk...

Everybody who ever worked for an organisation is automatically a waste of space.

There just seems to be so much of it.

I agree that not everyone in fas or the PS are dossers etc, but Unions have to recognise that their determination to defend unjustifiable wages, conditions, and practises, play a major role in the negative public perception of the PS.

TLDR; sweeping generalisations and misdirected anger are bad

People are angry at these ridiculously generous benefits; Fas workers are the ones who enjoy these benefits- how can anger directed at them on this issue therefore be mis-directed?

dublinview · 03-08-2011 07:26PM

Listen lads this has nothing to do with the extra days leave, nobody in their right mind would try to defend that. The mere fact that staff representatives have entered into negotiations to abolish them is evidence of that.

Neither is it about the fact that nobody gives up an advantageous employment condition voluntarily be it salary or a perk. Human nature means that people will always try to get the best deal for themselves.

This is about the ongoing villification of the Public Sector worker and in particular FAS staff. It appears that Senoir Management let the run of the mill FAS worker down but whoever did what there is no justification in castigating the ordinary FAS staff. However this is exactly what has happened with all sectors of soceity from the Media to the Private Sector to a perspective Government Minister joining in this past three years.

Do you really thing this would be a story if the issue was an attempt by Management to abolish the practice of Public Transport workers getting free travel. That comes from the public purse too but the general public have not been whiped into a frenzy against CIE and Irish Rail staff.

I have no idea why that SIPTU guy went on radio today to defend the indefensible. He only succeeded in turning a nothing story into a national scandal.

sollar · 03-08-2011 07:34PM

I'm a public servant and if FAS can get it i demand it too forthwith.

Once these things are given to people its hard to take them away with out a concession.

Killer Pigeon · 03-08-2011 07:36PM

sollar wrote: »

I'm a public servant and if FAS can get it i demand it too forthwith.

Na-aw-awww!! Not if the taxpayer has any say in it you won't.

(*grumble* public servants *grumble*)

Toby Take a Bow · 03-08-2011 07:49PM

listermint wrote: »

I live a highly happy life, Im employed, i have friends, I enjoy it to the max.

I'm often suspicious when people say they do anything 'to the max'. I'm doing dishes 'to the max'. I'm mowing the lawn 'to the max'. If I was to ever tell anyone I was mowing the lawn 'to the max', you can pretty much guarantee that I'm doing it fairly half-heartedly.

maninasia wrote: »

70 days off paid per year, 140 days in total, about half a working year.

How could it NOT affect productivity? Arguments like yours just amaze me.

It depends on whether you believe that a rested employee is a harder-working employee, I suppose.

Ray Palmer · 03-08-2011 08:32PM

jumpymunky wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/looking-for-work-dont-go-through-the-states-back-to-work-plan-report-finds-135800-May2011/

http://www.esri.ie/publications/latest_publications/view/index.xml?id=3144

LOL

That doesn't support what you said, NEAP is not people who do fas programs. It's a specfic scheme that has been ineffective and not Fas courses themselfves. It actually condradicts what you said.

By comparison, State training agency FÁS – which has earmarked for closure and replacement by the last government – was found to be relatively effective, with people taking FÁS courses becoming 10-14 per cent more likely to leave the Live Register.

galwayrush · 03-08-2011 08:39PM

Seriously, didn't someone from FAS have to massage Mary Hearney's feet during a junket to the States, all the paid leave in the world wouldn't cover that traunma.

Sonnenblumen · 03-08-2011 09:15PM

dublinview wrote: »

Listen lads this has nothing to do with the extra days leave, nobody in their right mind would try to defend that. The mere fact that staff representatives have entered into negotiations to abolish them is evidence of that.

Neither is it about the fact that nobody gives up an advantageous employment condition voluntarily be it salary or a perk. Human nature means that people will always try to get the best deal for themselves.

This is about the ongoing villification of the Public Sector worker and in particular FAS staff. It appears that Senoir Management let the run of the mill FAS worker down but whoever did what there is no justification in castigating the ordinary FAS staff. However this is exactly what has happened with all sectors of soceity from the Media to the Private Sector to a perspective Government Minister joining in this past three years.

Do you really thing this would be a story if the issue was an attempt by Management to abolish the practice of Public Transport workers getting free travel. That comes from the public purse too but the general public have not been whiped into a frenzy against CIE and Irish Rail staff.

I have no idea why that SIPTU guy went on radio today to defend the indefensible. He only succeeded in turning a nothing story into a national scandal.

2 Posts in and wow, we have a concerned citizen or a vested interest. If it is 'indefensible' why and what are they negotiating? I think the Union rep did a wonderful job of exposing how corrupt (many examples at all levels top-down going back years) that this sham of a public service organization has been for many years. FAS has failed miserably at all levels, and this latest unbelievable fiasco is nothing more than more of the same. Only when FAS et al are scattered to the furthest four corners of the public services where no more harm can be done, and SOLAS is resourced with new people, then and only then will the Irish tax payer have a reasonable chance of obtaining some cost effective worthwhile public service.

Why more FAS members have not been convicted is a mystery.

dublinview · 03-08-2011 10:05PM

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

2 Posts in and wow, we have a concerned citizen or a vested interest. If it is 'indefensible' why and what are they negotiating? I think the Union rep did a wonderful job of exposing how corrupt (many examples at all levels top-down going back years) that this sham of a public service organization has been for many years. FAS has failed miserably at all levels, and this latest unbelievable fiasco is nothing more than more of the same. Only when FAS et al are scattered to the furthest four corners of the public services where no more harm can be done, and SOLAS is resourced with new people, then and only then will the Irish tax payer have a reasonable chance of obtaining some cost effective worthwhile public service.

Why more FAS members have not been convicted is a mystery.

If you are categorising individuals availaing of an additional leave clause as corruption all I can say is I am glad you are not the Minister for Justice.

I am not a training or employment expert and cannot comment on your claim that FAS has failed miserably on all levels but please feel free to educate me if you have some solid facts to back this statement up rather than the same old unsubstansiated generalisations i have heard trotted out against the public sector since the downturn began.

However I do know enough about industrial relation negotiations to know that no side, management or unions gives up something without getting something in return - no matter how unreasonable or unjustified its existence may be so you will probably find that this is what the negotiating is for.

You should concern yourself with berating the people who signed off on the leave in the first place not the ones who are negotiating its demise.

the groutch · 03-08-2011 10:35PM

70 days holidays? that's nearly as bad as the teachers :rolleyes:

FlutterinBantam · 03-08-2011 10:38PM

or RTE

D1stant · 03-08-2011 10:53PM

maninasia wrote: »

70 days off paid per year, 140 days in total, about half a working year.

How could it NOT affect productivity? Arguments like yours just amaze me.

Of course it affects productivity. It improves it.

Is it any wonder our country is haemorrhaging money

Comments