Survey reveals a 44% pay gap between public and private sector

There's no logic that definitively says those on increments are the best performers, you yourself suggested

practically no-one gets a low enough rating to merit not getting their increment.

fliball123 wrote: »

No not forever but until this 18billion is closed it should definately be stopped..

You always have the option of moving to a job that pays better?

The fact is your pay should be adjusted downwards if anything....

If a highly skilled and well qualified staff member wants to quit..Go for it..There would be no shortage of people who could do the same job for less.


The ps needs to be incentivised using the stick as the dangling the carrot is not working

So, a race to the bottom is your solution. Classy.

I do indeed have the option of moving to a job that pays better, thanks for pointing that out! And I may do that depending on what happens in future.

You aren't really addressing the concerns I've raised though - if the PS doesn't offer a package commensurate with the private sector at a given level, then you won't be able to hire and retain people with the requisite skills or capability to do these jobs, certainly not in the long term.

Your focus is very much short term - it is generally agreed that the greatest asset of any large organisation is it's people, and you seem to have no regard whatsoever for this fact, that you won't ever get efficient public services if govt depts are staffed with people who are only there til they can find a better paying private sector job.

Itchianus wrote: »

So, a race to the bottom is your solution. Classy.

I do indeed have the option of moving to a job that pays better, thanks for pointing that out! And I may do that depending on what happens in future.

You aren't really addressing the concerns I've raised though - if the PS doesn't offer a package commensurate with the private sector at a given level, then you won't be able to hire and retain people with the requisite skills or capability to do these jobs, certainly not in the long term.

Your focus is very much short term - it is generally agreed that the greatest asset of any large organisation is it's people, and you seem to have no regard whatsoever for this fact, that you won't ever get efficient public services if govt depts are staffed with people who are only there til they can find a better paying private sector job.

What are you on about the PS is overpaid in comparison to the private sector as pointed out by the CSO...As I say if someone doing a specialist job such as yourself IT there are jobs in the private sector which may or may not pay you more..But threre will be at least 100 graduates or people on the dole who would be able to do your job after a months training and paying less...How is that short sited..Short sited is not addressing the 18 billion deficit using mechanisms under the govs control one of those mechanisms is PS pay..All increments should be stopped now...As for people being its greatest asset ... People usually get to a stage in their job when they think they can not be replaced...That is until they are...As I say stop the increments feel free to leave this will save us a fortune on giving out redundancies and penions contributions and there will be a young buck waiting in the wings to do it for much lesser wage than you .... You say a race to the bottom I say getting bang for my buck as a tax payer..

Itchianus wrote: »

if govt depts are staffed with people who are only there til they can find a better paying private sector job.

You said it yourself that there are other advantages to working for the government - security, better holiday package, a defined benefit pension plan, flextime (in certain roles). People value these things differently those that put a higher value on the above (normally those that are financially more risk averse) will work for the Government and those who put a higher value pay but are willing to take more personal risk in terms of security and pensions etc. will work in the private sector.

Itchianus wrote: »

The fact that they are the ones who have most recently come through competitive recruitment / promotion processes would suggest that, on average, these people have at least in the relatively recent past, outperformed their colleagues.

I'd gladly hear your counterargument to my logic, I'm not saying I'm right, but it makes sense to me!

Now maybe you could actually address the rest of my numerous points?

Actually they outperformed their former colleagues and the people who didn't get the job, depending on how many were recruited/promoted at a given time they may have under-performed versus the rest of the group. There has to be a cut off somewhere. As Jack Welsh would say there's always a bottom 5%.

fliball123 wrote: »

Ardmacha with the exception of possibly programming...IT processes can be documented and then a person trained up by someone else doing the same job for a month and the job can be done..Programming is the one area were you need to be able to adapt and you cannot process that...But things such as backups, Data retention, Data entry, DBAs, and other such areas there are graduates who would be able to do that as I say.....Stop the increment and lets see how many public servants leave?? I would bet there wouldnt any more than 100

You clearly have no idea how IT systems work or what such roles involve. Installing and configuring a server isn't programming but I can tell you that it's only easy to someone with considerable experience. A DBA is a person responcible for very important and often sensitive data, if he messes up then he could destroy a whole data base. Jobs for graduates, I think not.

RichardAnd wrote: »

You clearly have no idea how IT systems work or what such roles involve. Installing and configuring a server isn't programming but I can tell you that it's only easy to someone with considerable experience. A DBA is a person responcible for very important and often sensitive data, if he messes up then he could destroy a whole data base. Jobs for graduates, I think not.

Clicking next, next, next is not that difficult :pac: IT janitor jobs.

The_Thing wrote: »

+1

If it were as simple as what fliball123 and others seem to believe it to be there'd be no need for IT professionals to use the likes of Q & A sites like http://serverfault.com/, http://stackoverflow.com/, or http://superuser.com/

As an example. even people such as Jon Skeet, a Google engineer based in London and author of 'C# In Depth' has questions he asks on StackOverflow.

As I pointed out already Programming is one area in IT that I would aggree you would need to pay a premium or outsource it to the private sector..But backing up ..DBA and other day to day sys admin IT jobs could be done by a Computer Science Degree graduate or simular experience with a months training by a person already doing the job.......

fliball123 wrote: »

As I pointed out already Programming is one area in IT that I would aggree you would need to pay a premium or outsource it to the private sector

I don't agree on the need for outsourcing.

We've had a very capable programmer in our IT dept who wrote a videogame in C++ \ OpenGL for his final year project and he wasn't on great money while he was with us. He's since gone on to work for a games developer in England.

What is your area of speciality within IT, fliball123?

The_Thing wrote: »

I don't agree on the need for outsourcing.

We've had a very capable programmer in our IT dept who wrote a videogame in C++ \ OpenGL for his final year project and he wasn't on great money while he was with us. He's since gone on to work for a games developer in England.

What is your area of speciality within IT, fliball123?

i would be a floater..Do some programming, seting up clusters, Setting up Virtualisation, server rebuilds Unix and windows...a jack of all trades been in the sector for 20years now...

Itchianus wrote: »

And you appear to think that your IT methodology can be applied to all jobs everywhere. Do tell me how the following public sector workers can be replaced by some graduate with a month's training (and I'd love to see how these jobs can be documented):

Garda, nurse, customs officer, tax inspector...

And I suppose you could draw up a document that would allow a raw grad to walk in the door and be doing your job as well as you and for less money within a month?

Well a guard has how much training in Templemore?? So thats how long it is to replace them.

Nurse loads of student nurses coming out of college at present..

Remember everyone in the ps started somewhere...and lets be clear its not exactly doing a great job now is it..My references were for IT and admin based I thought that would of been pretty clear but some people need it spelt out in black and white.

I have my job documented there are many facets and I reckon a grad with mayb 6 months to a year would be able to do the job I do...Its up to my boss to see if I am worth the cash

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Do I seriously need to?

Wages in private sector go up then the cost of goods and services go up and the cost of public sector wages go up so they can afford goods and services...

really so what are we the theory that disproves the rule..The private sector have been coming down in wages..Have you not noticed that or have you buried your head in the sand and yet the other 2 are going up

Degsy wrote: »

Its always IT people who complain about public sector pay and the reason is this....they're scared shiitless of an increase in corporation tax and a consequent exporting of thier jobs overseas to cheaper countries.

I FOR ONE WILL NOT BE SORRY TO SEE THEM GO..THE it SECTOR HAS SPAWNED UNBELEIVABLE ARROGANCE,GREED AND STUPIDITY.

I'm not an IT person and I've huge issues with the pay and organisation of the public sector.

And anyone who would be not be sorry to see a huge outflow of jobs from this country at this time is IMHO a bloody idiot.

Degsy wrote: »

I FOR ONE WILL NOT BE SORRY TO SEE THEM GO..THE it SECTOR HAS SPAWNED UNBELEIVABLE ARROGANCE,GREED AND STUPIDITY.

And the odd wealth creating job.

fliball123 wrote: »

Hang on if you get more money for doing the same job (Gross Pay) its a pay increment...You guys have such double standards..When people in the private sector say that your Pension levy is a contribution to a defined benefit ..The argument is that its a pay cut..We get paid less....So using the logic of your ilk..This is a payrise..how ever you want to dress it up it costs 1/4 of billion more every year for the tax payer

Actually the pension levy has been called a pay cut by the previous goverment and this goverment a number of times when they had to show that the money does not go into our pension but into paying of the debt not going into the public sector pension kitty. And if you read my post you would have seen I said I am getting up to what my maxium wage should be. I have no problem with having only 1 pay level.