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David Norris for President....would you vote for him?

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Comments

  • #2522
    Evaex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭Evaex


    Biggins wrote: »

    We have certainly heard from those that honourably oppose him on valid points, we have heard from those that I suspect are closet gay haters and we have heard I suspect from a couple of right fools too filled with just uneducated vile hatred.
    Me? I wait till I hear from the man himself involved before deciding where to rest my voting mark.

    This is what we call desperation. Norris has done more damage to the gay community in this country than any "homophobe".

    I feel sorry for Norris supporters who showed such poor judgement of character.


  • #2523
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Seems like Biggins wants to make his mind up when all the boats are in. Which is kind of how this stuff is supposed to work, no?


  • #2524
    goat2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭goat2


    Biggins wrote: »
    Lord knows - probably vote Fianna Fail again?

    Correct.
    While it does indeed not look good for Norris - and if we admit to seeing them or not, there is some homophobes as late now delighting on recent turn of events - I still feel it would be appropriate to hear from Norris himself as to the matter and how he has previously dealed with the issue.

    We have certainly heard from those that honourably oppose him on valid points, we have heard from those that I suspect are closet gay haters and we have heard I suspect from a couple of right fools too filled with just uneducated vile hatred.
    Me? I wait till I hear from the man himself involved before deciding where to rest my voting mark.
    i am not homopobe, as a matter of fact a few of my friends are gay, and mean a lot to me.
    but i am against the fact that he sent a letter asking for leniency for someone who had sex with a child. like the priests hiding behind the pope in our case. same story really.


  • #2525
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Evaex wrote: »
    This is what we call desperation...
    If you bother to read this full thread I think you might find, its more like more accuracy than anything else - but thats my opinion, as is yours.


  • #2526
    Side Show Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Side Show Bob


    Biggins wrote: »
    Lord knows - probably vote Fianna Fail again?

    Correct.
    While it does indeed not look good for Norris - and if we admit to seeing them or not, there is some homophobes as late now delighting on recent turn of events - I still feel it would be appropriate to hear from Norris himself as to the matter and how he has previously dealed with the issue.

    We have certainly heard from those that honourably oppose him on valid points, we have heard from those that I suspect are closet gay haters and we have heard I suspect from a couple of right fools too filled with just uneducated vile hatred.
    Me? I wait till I hear from the man himself involved before deciding where to rest my voting mark.

    Maybe you didn't see Mr. Norris's letter of 14 years ago, (there's a number of links here and it was on the RTE news) in an effort to bring you up to speed he (Mr. Norris) wrote a letter to a forign ambassador asking him to forgive his friend raping a 15 year old boy. But maybe the good senator can put an acceptable slant on that for you


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  • #2527
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    I think you're meant to tell the relevant members of your campaign team about any potential skeletons in the closet you may have. It seems that Norris failed to do this on more than one occasion, so one can't blame his team for desserting him.


  • #2528
    Absurdum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Absurdum


    RTE have the letters on their site now

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisletter.pdf


  • #2529
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭later12


    mikemac wrote: »
    There were a few here that would come close to calling you homophobic or part of a smear campaign if you dared ask questions on his past

    Or the old backward, knuckle dragging people from the rural areas would oppose Norris while the young urban sophisticates were open minded :rolleyes:
    I agree with you entirely on that. When the Helen Lucy Burke article came to prominence early in the campaign, many people over in the politics section were who dared to say 'well hang on, saying this really isn't acceptable' were basically told to pick their knuckles up from the ground and stop being so homophobic. Most of us clearly didn't give a f*ck about sexual orientation, yet that's the easiest, most amoebic accusation going (and even persists).

    Nevertheless, in this regard, I don't think Norris supporters really deserve to have their faces shoved in the dirt. They couldn't have reasonably known about this story, but perhaps it might teach some of them not to be so quick to defend a man without grounds, as many are wont to do on this and other political sites.


  • #2530
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    "Not to be so quick to defend a man without grounds"?

    *Facepalm.


  • #2531
    The Left Hand Of God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 413 ✭✭The Left Hand Of God


    Biggins wrote: »
    If you bother to read this full thread I think you might find, its more like more accuracy than anything else - but thats my opinion, as is yours.


    At least you retained your dignity.


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  • #2532
    Dodd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Dodd


    That link to the letter clears things up to some extent.
    I need to read it again.
    Thanks.


  • #2533
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,956 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Evaex wrote: »
    It seems all the Norris supporters have crawled under whatever rock they can find. Shame they didnt two months ago when everyone else could see Norris had serious questions to answer.

    Ah, the joys of a 160 page topic...people can't be bothered to go back even 10 or so pages and just make wild statements.

    Biggins has addressed his current view several times, as have others. There's nothing else to be said till more info comes out and/or Norris makes a statement. No point posting the same post over and over and over...


  • #2534
    Evaex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭Evaex


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    "Not to be so quick to defend a man without grounds"?

    *Facepalm.

    Not to be so quick to defend a man who says there is something to be said for pederasty and who makes representations for a man who has commited statutory rape using Oireachtas headed newspaper.


  • #2535
    suspectdevice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 328 ✭✭suspectdevice


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Ah what thought ?
    I do not support D. Norris.

    never said you did. it was a general question. why should we wait for someone who has repeatedly misled or not been totally up front with people and allow him to hoodwink people again.

    he should leave public life now
    later10 wrote: »
    I agree with you entirely on that. When the Helen Lucy Burke article came to prominence early in the campaign, many people over in the politics section were who dared to say 'well hang on, saying this really isn't acceptable' were basically told to pick their knuckles up from the ground and stop being so homophobic. Most of us clearly didn't give a f*ck about sexual orientation, yet that's the easiest, most amoebic accusation going (and even persists).

    david norris is guilty of abusing his position. nothing more, nothing less. he did use it to make pleas on behalf of someone who was charged with a sex offense against a minor.
    later10 wrote: »
    Nevertheless, in this regard, I don't think Norris supporters really deserve to have their faces shoved in the dirt. They couldn't have reasonably known about this story, but perhaps it might teach some of them not to be so quick to defend a man without grounds, as many are wont to do.

    there is no value in shoving people's faces in the dirt

    but it is totally acceptable that all of his supporters come out and denounce what he has done and make sure we are left in no doubt that they understand the severity of the situation that they have accidentally found themselves in


  • #2536
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Even if he carries on the media still haven't touched him on Cathal Ó Searcaigh and the attempt by Norris to muzzle RTÉ.

    RTÉ were quick to get that letter on their website, maybe they remember? :)


  • #2537
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭later12


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    "Not to be so quick to defend a man without grounds"?

    *Facepalm.
    I'm talking about some of the defences I've seen on this site in the past 24 hours, including suggestions that maybe the 15 year old wanted it, so it was ok. etc etc ad nauseum.


  • #2538
    Side Show Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Side Show Bob


    Teamshadowclan wrote: »
    Ah, the joys of a 160 page topic...people can't be bothered to go back even 10 or so pages and just make wild statements.

    Biggins has addressed his current view several times, as have others. There's nothing else to be said till more info comes out and/or Norris makes a statement. No point posting the same post over and over and over...

    Jesus Christ, did you read his letter? The boy was 15, this is not an accusation against Norris, it's his words, opinions and his beliefs,

    What more are you expecting? An explanation to why one can rape a 15 year old boy, even in another country, this little guy is some mothers son! Please try to remember that!


  • #2539
    suspectdevice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 328 ✭✭suspectdevice


    we need to be careful

    norris is obviously corrupt

    his sexuality should never be part of this /js


  • #2540
    Evaex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭Evaex


    Side Show Bob wrote: »
    Jesus Christ, did you read his letter? The boy was 15, this is not an accusation against Norris, it's his words, opinions and his beliefs,

    What more are you expecting? An explanation to why one can rape a 15 year old boy, even in another country, this little guy is some mothers son! Please try to remember that!

    Utterly sick. Norris should resign from the Senate, never mind a nomination for the presidency.


  • #2541
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,956 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Side Show Bob wrote: »
    Jesus Christ, did you read his letter? The boy was 15, this is not an accusation against Norris, it's his words, opinions and his beliefs,

    What more are you expecting? An explanation to why one can rape a 15 year old boy, even in another country, this little guy is some mothers son! Please try to remember that!

    I'm sorry, did I defend the actions? Did I say I think what happened was right?

    No. I said that people who may have been pro-Norris have made their feelings known pages back and have no need to comment again until more comes or or new information or statements are made.

    I think even Biggins has said that this could cost Norris his vote, and it's looking like it will cost him mine too. I'm not defending what happened. But what do you want? The people who were pro-Norris to copy/paste their comments every give minutes because someone else has come into the topic, not bothered to read back and see what has already been said, and basically spam the topic?

    People have posted their disappointments and denouncements of Norris. That's the end of it until something new comes out or is said.


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  • #2542
    Absurdum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Absurdum


    The letter on the RTE site is from 1997, maybe I'm missing something but I thought Ezra was tried and convicted in 1992.
    He described his former partner's conviction for the statutory rape of a 15-year-old boy as a 'shocking and painful experience' and said he suffered 'guilt by association' but that it had been 'many people's fate to love people who have defects.'
    Mr Yizhak, who was Mr Norris' partner for many years, had been convicted of the statutory rape of a fifteen year-old boy and was awaiting sentence at the time.



    After reading the letters and the quote above, I get the distinct impression that Norris doesn't view what Ezra did as being wrong. That is disturbing to say the least.


  • #2543
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Evaex wrote: »
    Utterly sick. Norris should resign from the Senate, never mind a nomination for the presidency.
    Call me suspicious but for someone that appears to be full of fire and hatred from the get-go, I suspect you also post on this forum more often by another name?
    Possibly even a previously banned one?


  • #2544
    Evaex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭Evaex


    Teamshadowclan wrote: »
    People have posted their disappointments and denouncements of Norris. That's the end of it until something new comes out or is said.

    I have looked at the first few pages. Just as pro Norris, repetitive comments were thanks ad nauseam by Norris supporters it is only right and proper that this despicable representation and defence of the rape of a child be denounced.


  • #2545
    Badgermonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭Badgermonkey


    Evaex wrote: »
    Norris has done more damage to the gay community in this country than any "homophobe".

    That's a silly thing to say in light of Norris v. Ireland

    http://www.worldlii.org/eu/cases/ECHR/1988/22.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norris_v._Ireland


  • #2546
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    On the fifth page of the PDF document and in point 4, David Norris says the Israeli judge is wrong when the judge said there was no difference between that case and if it was a case involving heterosexual relations. David Norris says this is factually wrong and he could offer his expertise.

    David Norris looks for mercy for Ezra and says he can "guarantee absolutely" he won't re-offend again. The same sort of attitude with priests who abused minors that led to more offenses being committed.

    I don't know how Ezra got lured into a trap, I don't believe he was made sodomise the 15 year old boy.

    David Norris says Ezra pleaded unwisely guilty to the offense and in Irish law he would get away with a non custodial sentence.

    I don't know why Norris kept on about Irish law in his letter as it had no relevance to the case. The only law relevant was that of Israel.

    "I earnestly beg that the court may see the possibility of securing justice not by sending him to prison but by imposing a non custodial sentence.
    Senator David Norris


  • #2547
    suspectdevice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 328 ✭✭suspectdevice


    he certainly hasn't furthered anyone's causes due to recent revelations

    i have no doubt david norris is decent person

    he should just leave now

    i hope he has a strong character. hes going to need it

    dirt red tops will love this or a while. take the heat off their activities


  • #2548
    Raphael
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭Raphael


    As a matter of interest, where's the number 15 coming from for the kids age? Haven't seen any statement about it, just that he was below the age of consent, which was 18 for homosexual activity at the time.

    Also, very glad to see that the official letter head wasn't used for the letter pleaing leniency, just the character reference.


  • #2549
    Evaex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭Evaex


    Badgermonkey wrote: »
    That's a silly thing to say in light of Norris v. Ireland

    http://www.worldlii.org/eu/cases/ECHR/1988/22.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norris_v._Ireland

    You are of course correct. I should qualify my coment by saying he has done huge damage of late to the gay community.

    Not to take away from his victory, but of course homosexuality would have been decriminalised eventually as it was in every other Western country.


  • #2550
    Lady Chatterton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    mikemac wrote: »
    Even if he carries on the media still haven't touched him on Cathal Ó Searcaigh and the attempt by Norris to muzzle RTÉ.

    RTÉ were quick to get that letter on their website, maybe they remember? :)
    mikemac, I intrigued, can you expand?


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  • #2551
    Evaex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭Evaex


    Raphael wrote: »
    As a matter of interest, where's the number 15 coming from for the kids age? Haven't seen any statement about it, just that he was below the age of consent, which was 18 for homosexual activity at the time.

    Also, very glad to see that the official letter head wasn't used for the letter pleaing leniency, just the character reference.

    It was on the first page of reference AND on the first page of the reference with the harp and Seanad Eireann.


This discussion has been closed.
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