David Norris for President....would you vote for him?

My name is URL · 30-07-2011 09:13PM

He's not really defending the act of statutory rape in his letters from what I can see, in fact he acknowledges that it is a serious matter. I honestly think it's wholly down to him making a futile plea for someone he seems to really care about. Does that make it any better?.. No, not really, he was definitely foolish, even stupid to consider getting involved in such a case, and using official methods to do so is inexcusable, but I don't think it's quite as serious a matter as it's being made out to be. He is human after all, and we all make misguided decisions from time to time. I hope he at least genuinely accepts it as a real lack of judgement on his part.

You've got to wonder who leaked the letters also, and for what reason.. why now? I doubt it's a breeze to obtain this sort of record of correspondence from Israel.

Sir Oxman · 30-07-2011 09:15PM

According to RTE reporting Norris' interview in the S.Indo tomorrow -he's gonna keep trying to get a nomination.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisd.html

Side Show Bob · 30-07-2011 09:15PM

bob50 wrote: »

I still will vote for him all i can see is a dirty tricks campaign i suspect by either Michael higgins or fg or both if they don't smear him they won't make it to the aras

What bit of unconsentual sex with a 15 year old boy do you not understand, the only one into "Dirty Tricks" is that little dirty perverted author, of the letter and as a nation we should be forever grateful to whomever brought it to light,

ColeTrain · 30-07-2011 09:17PM

Norris is finished now and only has himself to blame.

bad2dabone · 30-07-2011 09:18PM

bob50 wrote: »

I still will vote for him

you won't get the chance to vote for him. No way he's getting a nomination now. Quite rightly too, the man would be an absolute liability as the President.

Side Show Bob · 30-07-2011 09:23PM

bad2dabone wrote: »

Stick a fork in him, he's done.

A well used dung fork, you mean?

spider guardian · 30-07-2011 09:24PM

The term "when you're explaining you're losing" was bandied about a lot when the pedastry furore was in full swing, it will be even more relevant now. Time for Norris to pull, it's not going to happen for him. Full stop.

suspectdevice · 30-07-2011 09:29PM

the man has made some serious errors in his judgement to the point where what he has said probably reflects his own opinions - young men should be groomed and statutory rape is not as important as making sure his ex lover can be around to help his mother

the bloke shouldn't just drop out of the race, he should drop out of the senate and out of public life

later12 · 30-07-2011 09:29PM

My name is URL wrote: »

He's not really defending the act of statutory rape in his letters from what I can see

No, defending statutory rape would be another issue entirely. Nobody has suggested he is doing so, that's a bit of a strawman argument.

What Norris appears to have done in that official letter was to accuse a 15 year old who it appears the court had decided was sexually abused, of having conspired against the senator's lover in a 'carefully prepared trap'. I find that sort of official representation a little disturbing, frankly. Especially so when Norris appears to abuse his position in referring to himself, on the seanad letter to the court, as an official representative (highest ever vote recorded in the senate, etc.)

The letter is here in pdf, btw

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisletter.pdf

suspectdevice · 30-07-2011 09:29PM

the man has made some serious errors in his judgement to the point where what he has said probably reflects his own opinions - young men should be groomed and statutory rape is not as important as making sure his ex lover can be around to help his mother

the bloke shouldn't just drop out of the race, he should drop out of the senate and out of public life

oppenheimer1 · 30-07-2011 09:30PM

spider guardian wrote: »

The term "when you're explaining you're losing" was bandied about a lot when the pedastry furore was in full swing, it will be even more relevant now. Time for Norris to pull, it's not going to happen for him. Full stop.

+1

I can't see him getting the nomination now and him continuing is showing the size of his ego and it will be his now misguided volunteers that will suffer. With so many skeletons in his closet he should never considered running. A man with such a good record on human right particularly gay rights has seen his reputation destroyed in the campaign so far.

The Left Hand Of God · 30-07-2011 09:33PM

So in short "My boyfriend isn't a pedo, really, it was just once he stuck his c0ck into a child and there were mitigating circumstances. We're in love by the way. Please take our love into account" ???

Dear...God....

I like Mr Norris but at the end of the day you reap what you sow.

Like a lot of these cases there is nothing more like a mothers unconditional love.

tayto lover · 30-07-2011 09:36PM

In all fairness these revelations must be a big disappointment to Biggins and the other pro Norris people on here. They did their best in a dignified manner all along to explain why Mr Norris would be a fine candidate for President and may feel let down with these revelations. While i would not have voted for Mr Norris i must congratulate them for their posts in his favour which were clear and helpful in making me examine my own stance on several issues. Biggins, in particular, was very helpful and went out of his way to explain his reasons for supporting the campaign.

Side Show Bob · 30-07-2011 09:40PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

+1

I can't see him getting the nomination now and him continuing is showing the size of his ego and it will be his now misguided volunteers that will suffer. With so many skeletons in his closed he should never considered running. A man with such a good record on human particularly gay rights has seen his reputation destroyed in the campaign so far.

If the mainstream comments in his letter are a true reflection of the mans oppinion and also taking into account the interveiw with magill a number of years ago, were he to continue and get the nomination the people who's signatures endorse him would be equally quilty of condoning statutory rape, and it's becoming more and more acceptable that people defend ideas like this.

suspectdevice · 30-07-2011 09:44PM

tayto lover wrote: »

In all fairness these revelations must be a big disappointment to Biggins and the other pro Norris people on here. They did their best in a dignified manner all along to explain why Mr Norris would be a fine candidate for President and may feel let down with these revelations. While i would not have voted for Mr Norris i must congratulate them for their posts in his favour which were clear and helpful in making me examine my own stance on several issues. Biggins, in particular, was very helpful and went out of his way to explain his reasons for supporting the campaign.

so does biggins still support his campaign

and what of the justifications given previously, would they stand up now?

The Left Hand Of God · 30-07-2011 09:47PM

suspectdevice wrote: »

so does biggins still support his campaign

and what of the justifications given previously, would they stand up now?

What will the sheep do? Without a Shepard

later12 · 30-07-2011 09:48PM

suspectdevice wrote: »

so does biggins still support his campaign

and what of the justifications given previously, would they stand up now?

I don't think this is a time for rubbing noses in it. Nobody could reasonably have known that these representations, as they have emerged today, existed.

From the point of view of Norris detractors (and I have never supported his Presidency btw), opposition to Norris was nothing to do with this letter, it was just pure chance that such detractors ended up on the right side of the coin. Nobody on either side knew of these letters, not even the campaign team themselves.

tayto lover · 30-07-2011 09:50PM

suspectdevice wrote: »

so does biggins still support his campaign

and what of the justifications given previously, would they stand up now?

I don't know but i think he said he would wait for Senator Norris's statement on the affair before deciding.

Evaex · 30-07-2011 09:53PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't know but i think he said he would wait for Senator Norris's statement on the affair before deciding.

It seems all the Norris supporters have crawled under whatever rock they can find. Shame they didnt two months ago when everyone else could see Norris had serious questions to answer.

mikemac · 30-07-2011 09:53PM

later10 wrote: »

I don't think this is a time for rubbing noses in it.

There were a few here that would come close to calling you homophobic or part of a smear campaign if you dared ask questions on his past

Or the old backward, knuckle dragging people from the rural areas would oppose Norris while the young urban sophisticates were open minded :rolleyes:

jill_valentine · 30-07-2011 09:58PM

Maybe ask Biggins. Or p'raps go and look at his posts on the subject before taking the opportunity to crow, eh?

Side Show Bob · 30-07-2011 09:58PM

later10 wrote: »

I don't think this is a time for rubbing noses in it. Nobody could reasonably have known that these representations, as they have emerged today, existed.

That's where you are seriously wrong! Norris knew of the representations himself, furthermore he knew were he to run for President that the chances of them coming to light were enormous, that in itself is a evidence of how incredibly arrogant these people are, Norris believes that sex with a young boy is ok, and he will defend it and can see no wrong in defending his bum buddy, were he having a true relationship with the guy that's he's defending surely he would dump him for sleeping around, but no this is what he's into,

suspectdevice · 30-07-2011 10:00PM

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

What will the sheep do? Without a Shepard

find a new flock to conceal themselves in

later10 wrote: »

I don't think this is a time for rubbing noses in it. Nobody could reasonably have known that these representations, as they have emerged today, existed.

sure it is. the time is now. it has to be now so that people know if they are going to run for public office then they better be squeaky clean. otherswise the right or the press will get you because it sells to the herd

later10 wrote: »

From the point of view of Norris detractors (and I have never supported his Presidency btw), opposition to Norris was nothing to do with this letter, it was just pure chance that such detractors ended up on the right side of the coin. Nobody on either side knew of these letters, not even the campaign team themselves.

norris knew

Side Show Bob · 30-07-2011 10:04PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't know but i think he said he would wait for Senator Norris's statement on the affair before deciding.

Eh.. No, his statement was published in the last few hours on a letterhead thar represents all of us, he can't defend it!

Will all of the Norris do gooders stand proud to read it in the NY Times, USA Today and see it on sky News,

suspectdevice · 30-07-2011 10:07PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't know but i think he said he would wait for Senator Norris's statement on the affair before deciding.

seriously

how can you live with this thought?

mconigol · 30-07-2011 10:08PM

later10 wrote: »

No, defending statutory rape would be another issue entirely. Nobody has suggested he is doing so, that's a bit of a strawman argument.

What Norris appears to have done in that official letter was to accuse a 15 year old who it appears the court had decided was sexually abused, of having conspired against the senator's lover in a 'carefully prepared trap'. I find that sort of official representation a little disturbing, frankly. Especially so when Norris appears to abuse his position in referring to himself, on the seanad letter to the court, as an official representative (highest ever vote recorded in the senate, etc.)

The letter is here in pdf, btw

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisletter.pdf

Shocking stuff.

Highlights a complete lack of judgement if nothing else. I'm being kind in just saying that much.

tayto lover · 30-07-2011 10:10PM

Side Show Bob wrote: »

Eh.. No, his statement was published in the last few hours on a letterhead thar represents all of us, he can't defend it!

Will all of the Norris do gooders stand proud to read it in the NY Times, USA Today and see it on sky News,

In all fairness to the people who backed Norris, they were not aware of these letters and may not have done so had they been aware. The H.L.B. matter always had some doubt around it even if D.N. did not dispute the wording himself but the context in which he said it.
I believe he is finished now anyway.

tayto lover · 30-07-2011 10:12PM

suspectdevice wrote: »

seriously

how can you live with this thought?

Ah what thought ?
I do not support D. Norris.

Biggins · 30-07-2011 10:12PM

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

What will the sheep do? Without a Shepard

Lord knows - probably vote Fianna Fail again?

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't know but i think he said he would wait for Senator Norris's statement on the affair before deciding.

Correct.
While it does indeed not look good for Norris - and if we admit to seeing them or not, there is some homophobes as late now delighting on recent turn of events - I still feel it would be appropriate to hear from Norris himself as to the matter and how he has previously dealed with the issue.

We have certainly heard from those that honourably oppose him on valid points, we have heard from those that I suspect are closet gay haters and we have heard I suspect from a couple of right fools too filled with just uneducated vile hatred.
Me? I wait till I hear from the man himself involved before deciding where to rest my voting mark.

The Left Hand Of God · 30-07-2011 10:13PM

I think Biggins is off with wounds

along with a lot of other disappointed people

David Norris for President....would you vote for him?

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