David Norris for President....would you vote for him?

Dyr · 30-07-2011 06:56PM

If poor ole norris was a cleric half his supporters here would be baying for him to be strung up

I knew after his eulogising of greek pederasty that he was'nt fit for the office no matter how much he tried to qualify it.

later12 · 30-07-2011 07:00PM

I wonder how accurate this poll is, given emerging events. Should it/ could it be reset?

Wolfe Tone · 30-07-2011 07:01PM

later10 wrote: »

I wonder how accurate this poll is, given emerging events. Should it/ could it be reset?

Yes it should be reset

My name is URL · 30-07-2011 07:02PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Yes it should be reset

Maybe wait until it's all laid out in the open tomorrow and start a new thread/poll?

Side Show Bob · 30-07-2011 07:04PM

later10 wrote: »

I wonder how accurate this poll is, given emerging events. Should it/ could it be reset?

If I could I would like to change my vote, but had he been elected by the people at this point before this latest information and the revelations set to appear in some of tomorrow's papers, there would be little point in trying to withdraw votes for Norris

Absurdum · 30-07-2011 07:04PM

Biggins wrote: »

A small but a possible significant point that might allow Norris to reclaim some personal credibility.

As you say "I think Norris was foolish to involve himself in the matter, and even more so to use official stationary for the purpose of writing the letter."
...I have to agree. On that ALONE I would not withdraw total support but if he sought to seek clemency for a sex crime rather than one that is political in nature (given the full aspect of a Israel/Palestinian picture), I would without question also withdraw support for him.

RTE Six One said Nawi was awaiting sentencing in relation to underage sex when Norris sent the letter so I assume that means he was convicted.

Lady Chatterton · 30-07-2011 07:04PM

later10 wrote: »

I wonder how accurate this poll is, given emerging events. Should it/ could it be reset?

I think that is a very good idea but I'd say it might be better to reset it tomorrow after we have read Norris' account. According to the 6 O'Clock news, he is giving interviews to the Sunday papers.

My gut instinct tells me that he will announce his retirement from the race though.

Jesus Wept · 30-07-2011 07:04PM

Foresight = cool.

Evaex · 30-07-2011 07:07PM

His Helen Lucy Burke interview has been given a whole new context if he did in fact seek clemency for someone going on trial for statutory rape.

Absurdum · 30-07-2011 07:10PM

If it turns out that myself and others were wrong and that there is an acceptable and logical reason for him to have sent letters to as yet unnamed Israeli recipients, it begs the question about why he has remained silent over the last 24 hours. His campaign team appear to have lost faith in him and one would expect that they probably know more than we do at the moment.

The other side of it is that perhaps he sees (or saw) nothing wrong with a ~40 year old man having sex with a 15 year old boy, and that he thinks that he has no reason to have to explain himself.

Biggins · 30-07-2011 07:11PM

Absurdum wrote: »

RTE Six One said Nawi was awaiting sentencing in relation to underage sex when Norris sent the letter so I assume that means he was convicted.

Aye, I listened intently to that bit of the news.
I will await for tomorrows papers however for confirmation from Norris as to what he asked clemency for.

Teclo · 30-07-2011 07:17PM

In the eight page letter to the court in Jerusalem, written on Seanad notepaper, Senator Norris says he and Mr Yizhak have known each other since 1975 and they had been regular visitors to each other's homes in Dublin and Jerusalem.
Senator Norris describes Mr Yizhak as a trustworthy, good and moral person for whom the 'present difficulty' is quite uncharacteristic.
He is, in Mr Norris' words, 'a thoroughly good and decent man despite difficulties in his upbringing.'
Mr Norris goes on to tell the court that he had direct knowledge of the events surrounding the case involving Mr Yizhak and the teenager but does not disclose the details, saying he would be happy to do so for the court.
He alleges Mr Yizhak was 'lured into a carefully prepared trap' and he had 'unwisely' pleadeded guilty to the charges..... Mr Norris says he is secure in the knowledge that Mr Yizhak would not offend again in the same way; that Mr Yizhak is prepared to offer financial compensation to his victim;.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisd.html

That's right Dáithí, put the blame on the bad guys... and on the child. Your boyfriend is the real victim.

My name is URL · 30-07-2011 07:17PM

Damn.. seems as if the letters were in fact sent after the trial, at least going by the wording on the RTE site

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisd.html

They've included the jist of what was said in the letters too.

Senator Norris describes Mr Yizhak as a trustworthy, good and moral person for whom the 'present difficulty' is quite uncharacteristic.

He is, in Mr Norris' words, 'a thoroughly good and decent man despite difficulties in his upbringing.'

Mr Norris goes on to tell the court that he had direct knowledge of the events surrounding the case involving Mr Yizhak and the teenager but does not disclose the details, saying he would be happy to do so for the court.

He alleges Mr Yizhak was 'lured into a carefully prepared trap' and he had 'unwisely' pleadeded guilty to the charges.

David Norris discusses at length the way in which he feels an Irish court would have dealt with the matter and cites how mitigating facts would be viewed by courts in Ireland and Britain.

His strongest argument to the court is, however, one for pity, he says.

Mr Norris says he is secure in the knowledge that Mr Yizhak would not offend again in the same way; that Mr Yizhak is prepared to offer financial compensation to his victim; that his psychological welfare is at risk if sent to prison; that he might attempt suicide in prison and that his mother depends on him.

Biggins · 30-07-2011 07:26PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Damn.. seems as if the letters were in fact sent after the trial, at least going by the wording on the RTE site

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisd.html

They've included the jist of what was said in the letters too.

Sadly I have to admit, I can't now see a good outcome for Mr Norris from this.
I still do think that there is VERY much more to this case. As I've mentioned already...

Nawi has in recent months received the support of prominent international leftists, including Professor Noam Chomsky, former deputy attorney general Yehudit Karp and author Naomi Klein.

I did a bit of research on Yehudit Karp alone and found this.

Yehudit Karp is widely acknowledged for her determined pursuit of truth and justice. Throughout her career as a lawyer she has acted with grit in the Israeli and international spheres, to preserve moral standards and to ensure human rights in general and women’s rights, children’s rights and victim’s rights in particular. She has received awards from the Israeli Bar Association for her special contribution to the advancement of the status of women in Israel and from the National Council for the Child for her contribution to the status and welfare of children in Israel.

...Where this leads me is to a case of... I think there is much more to the above Nawi/Norris case than meets the eye that we know of so far!

mikemac · 30-07-2011 07:32PM

I'm noticing Norris signatures being taken down

It's the end and can't blame the Daily Mail for this one

I should have bet on Michael D before betting was suspended

Biggins · 30-07-2011 07:36PM

mikemac wrote: »

...I should have bet on Michael D before betting was suspended

While they will NEVER admit it, someone, somewhere supporting Higgins is probably quietly happy at the latest turn of events.

Lady Chatterton · 30-07-2011 07:39PM

Biggins wrote: »

While they will NEVER admit it, someone, somewhere supporting Higgins is probably quietly happy at the latest turn of events.

To be fair I'd say all the other candidates would be relieved to see him exit the race as they might have a fighting chance then.

Dodd · 30-07-2011 07:53PM

Is it not strange that the letters he sent in or around 1992 were kept this long.?
I would have thought they would be destroyed long ago.

Dodd · 30-07-2011 07:53PM

Is it not strange that the letters he sent in or around 1992 were kept this long.?
I would have thought they would be destroyed long ago.

oppenheimer1 · 30-07-2011 08:14PM

Dodd wrote: »

Is it not strange that the letters he sent in or around 1992 were kept this long.?
I would have thought they would be destroyed long ago.

Once you have written something, it is around forever. Some posters around here could do well to remember that.

This case is beginning to remind me a lot of the way the Pamela Izevbekhai case unravelled. I wonder will David have the good grace to give up now that the game is obviously up or will he plough on like Pamela?

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 08:26PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Once you have written something, it is around forever. Some posters around here could do well to remember that.

This case is beginning to remind me a lot of the way the Pamela Izevbekhai case unravelled. I wonder will David have the good grace to give up now that the game is obviously up or will he plough on like Pamela?

Should he not be allowed to stand and let the public decide?

later12 · 30-07-2011 08:35PM

Dodd wrote: »

Is it not strange that the letters he sent in or around 1992 were kept this long.?
I would have thought they would be destroyed long ago.

Not really, Since this communication is an official communication from a member of a foreign Parliament, and pertains to a serious criminal case, it isn't particularly surprising that they were filed away.

What is curious is how this document came to light. Although the letter was read to the court, I presume it was in the hands of the Israelis, and I presume that is where it stayed. Elaine Byrne has said that this has emerged as result of a leak from the Israeli Embassy (presumably in Dublin?). Now if that is the case, it looks disturbingly like an interference in a foreign democratic election.

We've already had accusations of one foreign state, the Vatican, meddling in our internal affairs recently, I wonder if this is a case of a similar intrusion, and how the Israelis can explain it.

Morag · 30-07-2011 08:43PM

After reading the rte link http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisd.html

If it is as reported then he needs to resign and retire from public life imho.

Not that irish politicians tend to do this, Charles Haughey didn't even after being removed from ministerial office for gun running.

johngalway · 30-07-2011 08:45PM

Genuinely not wishing to dance on someones possible political grave, but:

He is, in Mr Norris' words, 'a thoroughly good and decent man despite difficulties in his upbringing.'

Sexuality, past partners past aside. I have an insurmountable problem with that sentence. Lots of ordinary and not so ordinary people have had problems in their childhood and don't go on to do things they should not. I have a problem that language like that is casually parachuted in, almost like it should in itself explain away a deed or crime and the person responsible for that deed should be forgiven on that basis.

It. Is. Not. Good. Enough.

Fair enough, everyone makes mistakes, even me

But we are all, or in my view should be, responsible for our actions.

I just can't abide things like that, that thinking offers up too many rat runs, excuses for people of questionable moral and other character to abuse and pull the wool over the eyes of the gullible and well meaning.

later12 · 30-07-2011 08:51PM

Biggins wrote: »

While they will NEVER admit it, someone, somewhere supporting Higgins is probably quietly happy at the latest turn of events.

Well it's a bit like Newton's third law; to paraphrase the man himself, for every action there is a reaction, and for every winner there is a loser. One of the biggest winners is undoubtedly Michael D Higgins, and his supporters will be understandably glad to see Higgins's popularity likely to rise in the opinion polls.

It doesn't necessarily mean that such people, glad as they are for Higgins, would be happy for Norris to be beaten in this way, or for him to be associated with child abusers. I don't think 'power hungry' or 'devious' would be words that would describe MDH himself, and I'm sure he is as surprised by emerging events as anybody.

If an externality arises in increased support for MDH - then great, it's okay to enjoy that increased support. It doesn't mean anybody would wish this on Norris, although some people in the media or with Israeli connections evidently do.

Lady Chatterton · 30-07-2011 08:52PM

Sharrow wrote: »

After reading the rte link http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisd.html

This is shocking stuff and extremely damaging for Norris.

Senator Norris describes Mr Yizhak as a trustworthy, good and moral person for whom the 'present difficulty' is quite uncharacteristic.

He is, in Mr Norris' words, 'a thoroughly good and decent man despite difficulties in his upbringing.'

Mr Norris goes on to tell the court that he had direct knowledge of the events surrounding the case involving Mr Yizhak and the teenager but does not disclose the details, saying he would be happy to do so for the court.

He alleges Mr Yizhak was 'lured into a carefully prepared trap' and he had 'unwisely' pleadeded guilty to the charges.

Lady Chatterton · 30-07-2011 08:57PM

Norris staying in race according to RTE news.

later12 · 30-07-2011 09:01PM

He alleges Mr Yizhak was 'lured into a carefully prepared trap' and he had 'unwisely' pleadeded guilty to the charges.

Yes that bit was strange alright. I don't want to focus too strongly on the sexual aspect of what went on, but Norris said in his PK interview two months ago that he has placed child welfare and the centre of everything he has done through the years. Evidently this is not exactly true. He has basically accused the victim of being part of a 'carefully prepared trap'. Norris goes on to mention an offer of money.

Wtf? Does he think a 15 y.o. kid agreed to consent to a sexual act with a 40 y.o. man just to trap him? Why did he mention an offer of money?

bad2dabone · 30-07-2011 09:10PM

Stick a fork in him, he's done.

bob50 · 30-07-2011 09:10PM

I still will vote for him all i can see is a dirty tricks campaign i suspect by either Michael higgins or fg or both if they don't smear him they won't make it to the aras

David Norris for President....would you vote for him?

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