District Court judge: Replace social welfare money with vouchers

The Waltzing Consumer · 29-07-2011 11:27PM

later10 wrote: »

I'm a little sceptical about this, especially when one considers Purchasing power parity. Why do you say 'top 5' specifically, have you read that somewhere or are you just guessing?

Well, when you consider our closest neighbours, we are miles ahead in welfare benefits and purchasing power parity is not that different. America is way way below Europe and especially Ireland. Scandinavia has high taxes, high prices but much lower benefits then us. I can't think of any country that has a better welfare system then we do in terms of the range and size of benefits available to unemployed/oap/single mothers etc. Can you?

Oh and to answer your question directly, the figure would be based not on any solid reference, more from working in information services and experience. But I am certainly open to being proven wrong.

The Waltzing Consumer · 29-07-2011 11:28PM

ftwwinning wrote: »

Last week Agriculture Minister Brendan Smith announced that the government would be giving out free cheese to the needy just before Christmas. Yup, free cheese. Inevitably, the announcement was met with incredulous, mocking derision. In a year where another government bright idea was taxing ATM withdrawals to curb tiger kidnappings, the notion that 53 tonnes of cheese would raise national morale was the high water mark of the “if you didn’t laugh, you’d cry” feeling currently pehttp://www.irishcentral.com/story/roots/across-the-pond/let-them-eat-cheese---irish-government-will-giving-out-free-cheese-to-the-needy-107487853.htmrvading the country.

Where did this come from? Were you asleep? That is from last year, that is not actually right, it was an EU directive and it was administered by the SVDP not the government.

Potential-Monke · 29-07-2011 11:30PM

I'm all for it, how about half and half, half vouchers and half cheque. Been saying it for years, sickens my ****e to see people on the dole out drinking most days when i work at 45+ hour week and can't even afford 1 night out a week.

ftwwinning · 29-07-2011 11:32PM

it is old, from last year, just the cheese thing was so ridiculous, has it been applied? did anyone actually "benefit"

Oh_Noes · 29-07-2011 11:34PM

The judge in this story, Seamus Hughes, is a complete and utter clown. I've been in the courtroom while he was presiding and it was like being at a comedy gig. He was constantly making remarks and showing off his quirky personality throughout the day. He was letting practically everyone off apart from people with driving offenses whom he was sentencing disproportionately harshly (I wasn't there for a driving offence).

He came across as completely unprofessional and made a laughing stock of the whole process. It's not even the first time he's been in the national media, not too long ago he got someone to climb Croagh Patrick as a sentence for a crime.

Morons like this guy make our country the farce that it is perceived as, he shouldn't be holding the office he does, let alone having his quirky ideas on things published in the national news.

The Waltzing Consumer · 29-07-2011 11:35PM

ftwwinning wrote: »

it is old, from last year, just the cheese thing was so ridiculous, has it been applied? did anyone actually "benefit"

Go down to the soup kitchens and have a look. People there tend not to look down their noses at food, be it from the EU, SVDP or catholic church.

caitmb · 29-07-2011 11:36PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I'm all for it, how about half and half, half vouchers and half cheque. Been saying it for years, sickens my ****e to see people on the dole out drinking most days when i work at 45+ hour week and can't even afford 1 night out a week.

Im with you there,best idea I heard in a long while.....Have a relative who has never worked EVER and is off to Portugal for 2 wks with 3 kids in tow.Meanwhile I'm on a wks leave painting my kitchen cos I cant afford to go away or get a painter! Not that Im bitter or anything.....

wonderfulname · 29-07-2011 11:39PM

ftwwinning wrote: »

it is old, from last year, just the cheese thing was so ridiculous, has it been applied? did anyone actually "benefit"

It wasn't ridiculous, the media just made it out to be something it wasn't, it was a EU directive, using EU surplus foodstuff, food was used to feed the down and outs of the eurozone rather than being left in a warehouse to rot.

It had nothing to do with the government, although the Minister did foolishly attempt to take credit.

Toby Take a Bow · 29-07-2011 11:40PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

wouldnt agree with 2 vasts being in there , of irish nationals on social welfare over the age of 25 i would agree that 90% of them are genuine cases who need the welfare and are not living comfortably . Of people on social welfare under 25 or immigrants, I would say atleast 51% are abusing the system in some way.

Ah, statistics. I'd say 99% of people over 25 are genuine, while 90% of under 25s and immigants are genuine. Utterly pointless unless backed up with hard facts. And why wouldn't you agree on the two vasts being included? How many people (to the nearest thousand) are under 25 and claiming the dole? And how many immigrants (again, to the nearest thousand) are claiming the dole?

i would say 'vast, vast' would apply when you take the amount claiming the dole now and take away the amount claiming the dole back in the good times. Take away the figures which would account for people changing jobs, stay-at-home carers, people with disabilities, long-term injured and you've got a fairly vast amount of people claiming genuinely.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

bookmarked on my phone and all

So, what happened to all the people you knew in college when you reported them to social welfare fraud?

G_R · 29-07-2011 11:40PM

How about:

If you are convicted of an offence while on Social Welfare, then the Judge has the option of ordering that you have most of your money replaced with vouchers - either permanently or for an amount of time, depending on the severity/frequency of the crime(s) committed. The Judge will also have the option of reducing the amount of money the offender receives - again, either permanently or for an amount of time.

Considering the Dole is currently €188 (I think). The person would receive:
3 x €50 vouchers
and €38 cash.

The person's name will be printed on the voucher, and ID must be provided to the shop when they are being cashed in (This is to prevent voucher's being sold on to others). The sale must be worth at least 75% of the voucher, and the change will be received in the form of a voucher from said shop.

Think that's harsh? Tough. Then don't break the law. Don't break the law the above won't happen to you.

I should so be in politics

mikemac · 29-07-2011 11:41PM

There are District court judges out there who should be on boards as mods for Ranting & Raving forum

Maybe they've been in the job for too long and need a break or early retirment

Judge Mary Fahy of Galway is another one fond of getting on the soapbox and treating people like dirt on her shoe and I'm not referring to this thread on welfare.
Sometime deserved with boyos with 20 plus convictions. And sometimes it's just not needed and uncalled for.

What is with Mullingar?
Circut court judge sentenced a man to 12 years for welfare fraud in Mullingar, we were discussing it last week.
If you want a judge who doesn't hold back go to Mullingar

ftwwinning · 29-07-2011 11:41PM

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Go down to the soup kitchens and have a look. People there tend not to look down their noses at food, be it from the EU, SVDP or catholic church.

my folks have both been homeless, my dad mostly still is, i was just asking, maybe i do not know as much as others here or am not used to quoting or citing, i just wanted to know what happened to the distribution of all that cheese, if it happened or not, nothing else

Potential-Monke · 29-07-2011 11:44PM

Grand_Rajnah wrote: »

How about:

If you are convicted of an offence while on Social Welfare, then the Judge has the option of ordering that you have most of your money replaced with vouchers - either permanently or for an amount of time, depending on the severity/frequency of the crime(s) committed. The Judge will also have the option of reducing the amount of money the offender receives - again, either permanently or for an amount of time.

Considering the Dole is currently €188 (I think). The person would receive:
3 x €50 vouchers
and €38 cash.

The person's name will be printed on the voucher, and ID must be provided to the shop when they are being cashed in (This is to prevent voucher's being sold on to others). The sale must be worth at least 75% of the voucher, and the change will be received in the form of a voucher from said shop.

Think that's harsh? Tough. Then don't break the law. Don't break the law the above won't happen to you.

I should so be in politics

That would cost too much (printing the vouchers), however, exchange vouchers for a credit card type thingy where the voucher points are added.

Mike 1972 · 29-07-2011 11:48PM

Grand_Rajnah wrote: »

If you are convicted of an offence while on Social Welfare, then the Judge has the option of ordering that you have most of your money replaced with vouchers -

Why are social welfare recipients (and immigrants for that matter) held to higher standards of behaviour than the rest of the population ?

Heres my radical idea..............

People who are convicted of a minor crime get fined
People who are convicted of a serious crime get sent to prison
People who are convicted of a midrange crime get community service.

If it sounds too complicated Ill say it again slooowwwllllyyyy.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup · 29-07-2011 11:48PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Great idea but let take it a bit further.

If YOU get gone for even the most minor offence (ANY crime remember) even something traffic/parking related you should have your salary taken away and be forced to work for nothing (rabble rabble)

What? I don't even... is this a troll? Your salary is between you and your employer, a private contract, you're providing work the employer wants, it has nothing to do with the government apart from them taking their greedy cut.

When you're on the dole you're a ward of the state, it's the states money you're spending and you should be super grateful to tax payers that you're getting it and not starving on the street. The least you can do is stay out of trouble and it should be taken off convicted criminals. Nothing to stop them getting a job then though like the rest of us.

Also:
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/4/45270/1289119-this_thread_again_super.jpg

7sr2z3fely84g5 · 29-07-2011 11:52PM

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

take away the amount claiming the dole back in the good times.

This source says there was 157,000 claiming in 2006-
http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/07/06/who-has-been-worst-hit-visualising-irelands-unemployment-crisis/

Mike 1972 · 29-07-2011 11:53PM

georgiecasey wrote: »

When you're on the dole you're a ward of the state

You have no idea what youre talking about

Potential-Monke · 29-07-2011 11:53PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Why are social welfare recipients (and immigrants for that matter) held to higher standards of behaviour than the rest of the population ?

Heres my radical idea..............

People who are convicted of a minor crime get fined
People who are convicted of a serious crime get sent to prison
People who are convicted of a midrange crime get community service.

If it sounds too complicated Ill say it again slooowwwllllyyyy.

There's your problem. Prisons are overcrowded and as such criminals get sent home early. Vicious circle begins. Take money off them, they won't be long attempting to go the straight line. Or become major criminals...

dvpower · 29-07-2011 11:54PM

georgiecasey wrote: »

What? I don't even... is this a troll?

georgiecasey wrote: »

When you're on the dole you're a ward of the state...

Right back at ya.

ftwwinning · 29-07-2011 11:55PM

ftwwinning wrote: »

my folks have both been homeless, my dad mostly still is, i was just asking, maybe i do not know as much as others here or am not used to quoting or citing, i just wanted to know what happened to the distribution of all that cheese, if it happened or not, nothing else

food was used to feed the down and outs of the eurozone rather than being left in a warehouse to rot.
good if it was, but where is the proof? i am just saying, did they have a queue in every city in europe, "down and outs" with their hands out for a lump of cheese, great.. especially in the sun, really sweaty, is this documented somewhere?

G_R · 29-07-2011 11:55PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

That would cost too much (printing the vouchers), however, exchange vouchers for a credit card type thingy where the voucher points are added.

Done. They get a prepaid VISA/Mastercard. Actually that's an excellent idea. Then it has to be used in shops. It just can't be used in an ATM or to get cashback.

7sr2z3fely84g5 · 29-07-2011 11:55PM

Prison might do some good,apparently the biggest methadone clinic in the country is the joy prison :eek:

Potential-Monke · 29-07-2011 11:57PM

Grand_Rajnah wrote: »

Done. They get a prepaid VISA/Mastercard. Actually that's an excellent idea. Then it has to be used in shops. It just can't be used in an ATM or to get cashback.

And make it so that pubs cannot use them.

wonderfulname · 29-07-2011 11:58PM

georgiecasey wrote: »

Nothing to stop them getting a job then though like the rest of us.

We are in a recession, the vast majority of people on the dole don't want to be there, a very high proportion can't afford to be there, but we simply do not have enough jobs to employ our entire workforce. It was all well and good to make such statements a few years ago but now, really?

Also, on the subject of it being "our" money, or the states money, again, the vast majority of people currently on the dole contributed to the countries coffers, they contributed, theoretically, to services provided by the government that they could utilise, this is one of those services.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup · 29-07-2011 11:59PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

You have no idea what youre talking about

Alright, I got the definition of ward of the state wrong, what I meant was you're dependent on the state for money.

Oh_Noes · 30-07-2011 12:03AM

What's the cut off on these dole threads? There are about ten news ones everyday and then another ten different ones the next day. Do they all just fade away or what?

I would like to suggest a forum specifically for discussing the rights and wrongs of the dole. Get rid of it from every other f*cking forum on boards.

wonderfulname · 30-07-2011 12:05AM

ftwwinning wrote: »

food was used to feed the down and outs of the eurozone rather than being left in a warehouse to rot.
good if it was, but where is the proof? i am just saying, did they have a queue in every city in europe, "down and outs" with their hands out for a lump of cheese, great.. especially in the sun, really sweaty, is this documented somewhere?

This scheme has been going for over 20 years, yes it is documented, no it doesn't cost you any money, and it provides a great use for all the farm produce bought up by the EU.

Here, learn some stuff.

G_R · 30-07-2011 12:10AM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Why are social welfare recipients (and immigrants for that matter) held to higher standards of behaviour than the rest of the population ?

Heres my radical idea..............

People who are convicted of a minor crime get fined
People who are convicted of a serious crime get sent to prison
People who are convicted of a midrange crime get community service.

If it sounds too complicated Ill say it again slooowwwllllyyyy.

First off, sorry for two posts in a row, didn't see this one.

Anyway, under my "plan" this would just be another weapon in the Judges arsenal.

When you are on Social Welfare, the state pays your keep, and it's only right that it does, you have paid your PAYE/PRSI/USC/VAT etc etc, you are entitled to assistance in your time of need. However, I don't see why someone who the state is giving money to shouldn't be held to some standard. (And it's not a higher standard by any means, this would only be imposed if you commit a crime).

To be very trivial about it, think of it like a parent with-holding a child's pocket money for misbehaviour.

Not only would this act as a deterrent to crime, it would also lead to a reduction in Social Welfare fraud. Being realistic and non-politically about the situation, the people who are frauding the system and the people who would likely be effected by my proposal would probably be one in the same.

And this method also ensures that the vast majority of claimants who are law-abiding citizens don't suffer because the choices of a few.

saywhatyousee · 30-07-2011 12:35AM

The more and more i read these threads,i am convinced that people dont care about actual money being saved.They just want people they deem as "lower class" to suffer.The food stamp idea is terrible people are just going to find ways around it.Banning unemployed from buying alcohol and tobbaco?all that is going to do is drive illegal alcohol production(dangerous stuff if not made correctly)
Tobbaco? Meh the tax's are so high there basically getting there money back

K-9 · 30-07-2011 01:03AM

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Didn't judges refuse to pay the pension levy like other civil servants?

Many did hence talk of a referendum to force them to take a pay cut. It'll end up costing more than the saving achieved.

And these guys preach morals!

District Court judge: Replace social welfare money with vouchers

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