District Court judge: Replace social welfare money with vouchers

DonJose · 29-07-2011 08:41PM #1

A District Court judge has said it is "high time" that those who spend their social welfare payments on alcohol and drugs should receive vouchers instead of cash.

At Mullingar District Court Judge Seamus Hughes said the sooner the day comes that coupons and not money is handed out, the better.

Judge Hughes made the comments as he was dealing with the case of a 25-year-old Mullingar man with an alcohol addiction who has amassed 27 convictions.

Kevin McDonagh of 22, Grange Park, Mullingar was in court to purge his contempt for disruptive behaviour at last week's sitting.

His solicitor Patricia Cronin admitted that he had been smelling of drink when she dealt with him that morning and said his chronic use of alcohol is known to gardai.

McDonagh acknowledged that "hard-pressed" taxpayers, including gardaí, make his social welfare payment possible and apologized for his behaviour.

Judge Hughes said there are no "checks and balances" in the current system and said that "surely a system could be devised".

McDonagh will complete 240 hours community service in lieu of a three-month sentence for threatening behaviour towards gardaí, with the judge noting it will give him an opportunity to "make better use" of his hands.

http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/district-court-judge-replace-social-welfare-money-with-vouchers-514662.html

sgb · 29-07-2011 08:42PM

Bring back the butter vouchers

wonderfulname · 29-07-2011 08:44PM

How do you police it? They'll just sell the vouchers.

Einhard · 29-07-2011 08:44PM

Why is it any business of the judge what anyone else spends their money on, as long as it's not illegal?

DonJose · 29-07-2011 08:45PM

The fella in the article is 25, has 27 convictions and probably hasn't worked a day in his life, is it fair that he should receive the same dole as a person who has worked most of their life only to be let go recently. I agree that long term unemployed and the "unemployable" should be given vouchers and those who lost their jobs should be paid a percentage of their earnings, decreasing the longer they are unemployed until they reach the dole level of pay.

MagicMarker · 29-07-2011 08:47PM

Anyone on the dole who is convicted of any crime should have their dole taken away, period.

flyaway. · 29-07-2011 08:47PM

I don't like the idea... I think a lot of people would be embarrassed to be paying with vouchers. It doesn't seem like a good idea to punish everybody just because a few people are getting in trouble.

Gummy Panda · 29-07-2011 08:47PM

Didn't judges refuse to pay the pension levy like other civil servants?

7sr2z3fely84g5 · 29-07-2011 08:48PM

DonJose wrote: »

The fella in the article is 25, has 27 convictions and probably hasn't worked a day in his life, is it fair that he should receive the same dole as a person who has worked most of their life only to be let go recently. I agree that long term unemployed and the "unemployable" should be given vouchers and those who lost their jobs should be paid a percentage of their earnings, decreasing the longer they are unemployed until they reach the dole level of pay.

Agree on this,same with junkies,there something needs to be done instead of giving them welfare from taxpayer,walking down to get methadone from the taxpayer and off for the day then.

IngazZagni · 29-07-2011 08:50PM

Einhard wrote: »

Why is it any business of the judge what anyone else spends their money on, as long as it's not illegal?

Eh because he's spending taxpayer money on alcohol and possibly drugs. Therefore it is to an extent all our business.
The foodstamp program in the States, while far from perfect I think is a much better way of providing basic support for those that need it. It would be worth investing in research into how such a program could work in Ireland.

newballsplease · 29-07-2011 08:51PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Anyone on the dole who is convicted of any crime should have their dole taken away, period.

Any crime?? Speeding?

bmarley · 29-07-2011 08:52PM

What a great idea! - Maybe government could open up a specialised supermarket for those on welfare payments and give helpful advice on how to cook nutritious meals etc. Oh and how could other bills be paid such as electricity, heating, car tax etc..

My name is URL · 29-07-2011 08:52PM

What a stupid thing for a judge to say. Does he believe that junkies will just give up on their addiction because they're handed vouchers instead of cash? They'll either sell the vouchers or start stealing in order to feed their habits.

Tehachapi · 29-07-2011 08:52PM

DonJose wrote: »

McDonagh acknowledged that "hard-pressed" taxpayers, including gardaí, make his social welfare payment possible and apologized for his behaviour

Well he's talking sh1te there, garda taxes don't pay his social welfare at all. In fact their money comes from the same pot. It's private sector taxpayers, and the IMF/EU who are making his social welfare payment possible.

Eric Cartman · 29-07-2011 08:53PM

wonderfulname wrote: »

How do you police it? They'll just sell the vouchers.

to who , who the f*ck would want food vouchers

MungBean · 29-07-2011 08:54PM

State should take over a supermarket chain, allow people on welfare to pay with welfare card. Allow a certain amount to be cashable and the rest to only be used in the supermarket. Wouldnt be as embarrassing as using vouchers, would avoid all the waste of people spending their dole on drink and drugs and whatnot. And would actually be a money maker for the state. Profit goes into expanding the supermarket chain leading to more jobs.

Yes yes I know GTFO you commie scum, coming in here with your crack pot ideas of saving money and helping everyone.

gets me coat

marxcoo · 29-07-2011 08:54PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Anyone on the dole who is convicted of any crime should have their dole taken away, period.

So what... force them to live on the street and engage in even more crime?

Tehachapi · 29-07-2011 08:54PM

newballsplease wrote: »

Any crime?? Speeding?

Speeding is not a criminal offence.

Mike 1972 · 29-07-2011 08:56PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Anyone on the dole who is convicted of any crime should have their dole taken away, period.

Great idea but let take it a bit further.

If YOU get gone for even the most minor offence (ANY crime remember) even something traffic/parking related you should have your salary taken away and be forced to work for nothing (rabble rabble)

DonJose · 29-07-2011 08:56PM

My name is URL wrote: »

What a stupid thing for a judge to say. Does he believe that junkies will just give up on their addiction because they're handed vouchers instead of cash? They'll either sell the vouchers or start stealing in order to feed their habits.

Like the junkies aren't doing this already. Below is from the same Judge regarding the same case but more details.

"He referred to the case of another man who came before him recently and spent €120 of his €180 payment on heroin immediately after getting it."

Full story,

Mullingar’s District Court judge has said it’s “high time” that those who spend their social welfare payments on drink and drugs should receive vouchers instead of cash.

“The sooner the day comes that vouchers and not money is handed out, the better,” Judge Seamus Hughes said yesterday.

He was referring to “the majority, the more than 90 per cent of young offenders who are not working, are on social welfare, and are committing public order offences”.

He said they are using their social welfare payments to buy drink and drugs when it is intended to provide for “the basic necessities” such as food and clothing.

He was dealing with the case of a 25-year-old Mullingar man with an alcohol addiction who has amassed 27 convictions, many of them for public order offences.

Kevin McDonagh of 22 Grange Park, Mullingar was in court to purge his contempt for disruptive behaviour at last week’s sitting of the court when he was remanded in custody for seven days.

His solicitor Patricia Cronin admitted that he had been smelling of drink when she dealt with him that morning, on July 21, and said his chronic use of alcohol would be known to gardaí.

There were also suggestions that he had been under the influence when he made an obscene gesture at gardai as they passed him at 11.20am the day before as he queued to sign on at Mullingar’s social welfare office.

McDonagh acknowledged that “hard pressed” taxpayers, including gardai make his social welfare payment possible and apologised for his behaviour in court.

Judge Hughes said there are no “checks and balances” in the current system and said that “surely a system could be devised” which would allow welfare payments to be made in vouchers that would be acceptable to supermarkets and for bill payments.

He referred to the case of another man who came before him recently and spent €120 of his €180 payment on heroin immediately after getting it.

McDonagh will complete 240 hours community service in lieu of a three month sentence for threatening behaviour towards gardai, with the judge noting it will give him an opportunity to “make better use” of his hands.

He also said it would avoid “costing the taxpayer a fortune” by sending him to prison.

“I’ll be on your case,” he told the young man, advising that he will be in jeopardy any time he appears before him before he is due to retire in 11 years.

“By the time you’re 36 I’ll have made a man of you,” he concluded.

http://www.advertiser.ie/mullingar/article/42429/abuse-of-social-welfare-lamented-by-district-judge

Sunnyisland · 29-07-2011 08:57PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Anyone on the dole who is convicted of any crime should have their dole taken away, period.

And to people who are employed they could have there wages cut

marxcoo · 29-07-2011 08:57PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

to who , who the f*ck would want food vouchers

People buying food perhaps. Sell the voucher off for less than it's worth and plenty of people will be willing to take it off their hands.

MagicMarker · 29-07-2011 08:57PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Great idea but let take it a bit further.

If YOU get gone for even the most minor offence (ANY crime remember) even something traffic/parking related you should have your salary taken away and be forced to work for nothing (rabble rabble)

Because that's the same thing and not even remotely retarded rabble rabble.

Eric Cartman · 29-07-2011 08:57PM

Einhard wrote: »

Why is it any business of the judge what anyone else spends their money on, as long as it's not illegal?

because social welfare , paid for by the judge, you, me and every other working person in ireland is going to fund these people.

The dole is for surviving , not living ,

drink, smokes, holidays, designer clothes, drugs etc.. are not essential parts of surviving, let alone the people saving dole in savings accounts , why should you get to save my tax money for the next time you need a holiday. its a disgrace and it should have been done as vouchers years ago , we wouldnt have half the drug problem we do in this country if the dole wasnt in cash, id also say there would be a sharp decrease in foreign nationals on the dole aswell as single mothers just out of school.

Sunnyisland · 29-07-2011 08:59PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

to who , who the f*ck would want food vouchers

Big black market for the butter vouchers in the 80,s, Some people mostly shopkeepers made a small fortune.

IngazZagni · 29-07-2011 08:59PM

My name is URL wrote: »

What a stupid thing for a judge to say. Does he believe that junkies will just give up on their addiction because they're handed vouchers instead of cash? They'll either sell the vouchers or start stealing in order to feed their habits.

Of course it's not going to solve the problem by doing this. But by having less physical cash and more vouchers it makes it harder to buy things outside of what they are intended for. Yes you probably could try selling them but I doubt they would be very popular and thus yield less cash verses how much the voucher is worth. There is no one solution to the puzzle, this is just one small piece to it.

Eric Cartman · 29-07-2011 09:00PM

realies wrote: »

Big black market for the butter vouchers in the 80,s, Some people mostly shopkeepers made a small fortune.

this is leading back to my cashless laser card idea, stamps a lot of that out

Shane L · 29-07-2011 09:02PM

IngazZagni wrote: »

Eh because he's spending taxpayer money on alcohol and possibly drugs. Therefore it is to an extent all our business.
The foodstamp program in the States, while far from perfect I think is a much better way of providing basic support for those that need it. It would be worth investing in research into how such a program could work in Ireland.

I never want to follow the model of a country which is in 14 trillion dollars worth of debt. Or the fact its still the biggest abuser of all nations when it comes to illegal drugs ( correct me if I'm wrong I remember seeing the statistic but can't find it). I agree though we need some sort of model though :P

batistuta9 · 29-07-2011 09:02PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Anyone on the dole who is convicted of any crime should have their dole taken away, period.

That's a ridiculous statement. There are a lot of people who have been convicted for various things and that doesn't make them hardened or serious criminals. Minor motor offences or one public order when a person was young are good examples of this.
People who are involve in crime are then even more likely to commit robberies to have some money to live on. It would make crime rates soar if anything.

Food vouchers aren't that bad an idea but as someone said would be hard to police

Shane L · 29-07-2011 09:03PM

IngazZagni wrote: »

Eh because he's spending taxpayer money on alcohol and possibly drugs. Therefore it is to an extent all our business.
The foodstamp program in the States, while far from perfect I think is a much better way of providing basic support for those that need it. It would be worth investing in research into how such a program could work in Ireland.

I never want to follow the model of a country which is in 14 trillion dollars worth of debt. Or the fact its still the biggest abuser of all nations when it comes to illegal drugs ( correct me if I'm wrong I remember seeing the statistic but can't find it). I agree though we need some sort of model though :P

Tehachapi · 29-07-2011 09:03PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

because social welfare , paid for by the judge

No, judges do not pay for the social welfare. Anyone paid by the state (gardai, judges, doctors, teachers, etc) are not contributing a cent to others social welfare. I'll draw a diagram:

(Private sector taxes + IMF/EU/ECB loans)

> [State Money]

> (Public sector staff + Social welfare)

District Court judge: Replace social welfare money with vouchers

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