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Five Gardai will not be charged in shell to sea tape

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    lastlaugh wrote: »
    No to what?

    Whatever your opinion is of the Guards is irrelevant.

    You said that the sneaky crusties left the thing on, as if they knew that the Gardai were going to start making jokes about rape. I'm just pointing out the utter stupidity of the Gardai involved. Between 3 of them they weren't even competent enough to check the videos on the recorder for potential evidence. If they had the sense to check if the thing was still on, then none of this would have come to light. Their own idiocy & ignorance is responsible for this whole thing just as much as any of the protesters.

    say's he/she who has never made a mistake in their life! What's it like to be perfect?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    lastlaugh wrote: »
    No to what?

    Whatever your opinion is of the Guards is irrelevant.

    You said that the sneaky crusties left the thing on, as if they knew that the Gardai were going to start making jokes about rape. I'm just pointing out the utter stupidity of the Gardai involved. Between 3 of them they weren't even competent enough to check the videos on the recorder for potential evidence. If they had the sense to check if the thing was still on, then none of this would have come to light. Their own idiocy & ignorance is responsible for this whole thing just as much as any of the protesters.

    say's he/she who has never made a mistake in their life! What's it like to be perfect?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Macha wrote: »
    People in this country have a right to protest, you do you think we should all sit quietly at home if we don't agree with something happening? Red herring again. I'll wait for your explanation.

    You're correct of course. People do have a right to peacefully protest. Big difference. Remember when that young guard in Donegal was killed by the joyrider some time ago?

    A few days later at this "protest" some woman was goading the gardai about how it was a pity more of them weren't killed. Absolutely disgusting.

    Funnily enough there was no outcry over that. As usual.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    the bolt wrote: »
    where is the proof that the made up anything?the gardai on the shell to sea dont need any help on the looking bad front.

    The Gardai are doing a very difficult job in an extremely demanding situation. You should try it. You might dismount from that horse then.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    jay93 wrote: »
    Rape is not a joke nor should it EVER be taken as a joke especially from law enforcers who are supposed to protect the citizen's of this country from such acts

    The ignorance of people on this thread amazes me Ireland and the people in it have become so odd its unreal at this stage.

    Personally i've never heard anyone joke about raping anyone in my whole life these men involved in this should not be a Garda end of.
    This is such nonsense, why to people seem to enjoy getting upset about things? The facts seem to have gone out the window now as people have picked a side and won't budge.

    Can a rape victim make jokes about rape? Who are you to bring out a blanket ban on jokes?

    Louis CK one of Americas top comedians tells a rape joke, in context it's funny without being bad at all.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    K-9 wrote: »
    I think the American woman is a bit of a serial campaigner

    If she is there are many like her, unfortunately. We've heard of welfare tourism - but protest tourism?:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    - but protest tourism?:rolleyes:

    A group of eco warriors were brought to Cobh to save something that I've forgotten about, ot took the army to get them out, afaik, some are still living there, similar situation in Dunmanway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭7sr2z3fely84g5


    There was an article in june edition of the sunday indo,i assumed it was mentioned already,but had the background story about rape remarks.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rape-claims-were-hurled-at-gardai-by-protesters-2800104.html
    Another video tape has emerged relating to the so-called Mayo garda "rape tape" which suggests gardai who were removing two women protesters from a tractor -- in the presence of female officers -- were being accused of rape.
    The video tape is part of evidence being examined by the Garda Ombudsman regarding the 'rape tape' controversy, and it appears to provide a context in which it would appear the gardai in the squad car were joking about "rape" because they had been repeatedly accused of rape as they were handling the women protesters.
    An unidentified woman protester can be heard uttering the word as gardai lifted two women down from a tractor on a video tape, seen by the Sunday Independent.
    A copy of the video tape is now with the Garda Ombudsman. Four gardai have been questioned but not a fifth, who has been on sick leave. The Ombudsman said it has also questioned women protesters. Gardai at the scene said they were repeatedly accused of "rape" while handling the women.
    On the video clip four male gardai can be seen trying to move the two women from the top of the tractor cab. Two female gardai are in close attendance.
    As one of the women is helped on to the bonnet and then down into the arms of one of the female officers one of the male gardai can be heard saying "I am trying to get you down", while another woman is shouting in the background. A female voice can then be heard shouting "outrageous" and then, in a lower tone and from another female voice, the word "rape" can be heard.
    Protesters had released part of a recording from a camcorder that had been seized by gardai and was still running when the 'rape' conversation took place inside the squad car. This received massive media coverage.
    However, the background to the remarks and context in which the gardai were jokingly referring to rape was not made public.
    According to garda sources at least one unidentified woman protester used the word repeatedly as she was being moved from the site.

    The gardai were criticised by, among others, the National Women's Council, which said women would be left wondering if their distress "will be a source of amusement" for gardai.
    But garda sources said that all the gardai involved are highly regarded officers, though the remarks are clearly embarrassing and stupid. Gardai at the protests have come under pressure and routinely face allegations from assault to false imprisonment.
    Dozens of complaints have gone to the Garda Ombudsman.
    The gardai under investigation were travelling by car from the protest site to Belmullet station with the camcorder running without their knowledge. It was returned to the two women who had been arrested and taken to the station in another car accompanied by female gardai after they were released without charge.
    On the tape one of the gardai can be heard saying: "Give me your name and address or I'll rape you."
    Amid laughter, another garda repeated: "Hold it there. Give me your name and address there . . . I'll rape you."
    After more laughter, another says: "I'll definitely rape you."
    Protesters later told reporters that one of the women in the latest clip had bruises but in the video seen by this paper gardai appear to be acting very carefully. One protester descended with gardai on either side holding her arms but another continued to shout and struggle while lying on her back on top of the cab of the Shell tractor with two other gardai restraining her, holding her wrists and legs.
    After the emergence of the "rape tape" an unnamed protester told a local newspaper: "When on a protest they are treating you really roughly, you have an instinctive sense of danger, but you can't put words on it.
    "But then to hear them saying that word 'rape' so many times and then all the laughter. Every woman knows someone who has been a victim of sexual violence. These are the men that all our lives we are told are there to protect us and here they are talking about raping us."

    And have the women's council made any remarks since about the tape?.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 229 ✭✭0O7


    You said that the sneaky crusties left the thing on, as if they knew that the Gardai were going to start making jokes about rape. I'm just pointing out the utter stupidity of the Gardai involved. Between 3 of them they weren't even competent enough to check the videos on the recorder for potential evidence. If they had the sense to check if the thing was still on, then none of this would have come to light. Their own idiocy & ignorance is responsible for this whole thing just as much as any of the protesters.

    sure then we'd probably have stupid eeeeeeejits complaining "wa waaa wa, the gardai checked our video cam and deleted things, invading our privacy etc"

    excuse the waa's etc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    You said that the sneaky crusties left the thing on, as if they knew that the Gardai were going to start making jokes about rape. I'm just pointing out the utter stupidity of the Gardai involved. Between 3 of them they weren't even competent enough to check the videos on the recorder for potential evidence. If they had the sense to check if the thing was still on, then none of this would have come to light. Their own idiocy & ignorance is responsible for this whole thing just as much as any of the protesters.

    Would love to see how wonderfully you'd be dealing with the crap most gardai have to deal with in their working day on top of the type of shift pattern they have to work, very easy sit out on the sidelines throwing bricks.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,274 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    And have the women's council made any remarks since?.

    They spoke to Matt Cooper, it annoyed me. I posted this yesterday:
    I was listening to Matt Cooper earlier. He had Susan McKay on from the national womens council.

    Matt read out a statement from a detective Garda, who recalled one of the protesters saying something like "she is not safe with ye, she could be raped by ye", and put it to the rep from the national womens council that the guards were joking afterwards (in the recording) at the ridiculousness of that statement, and that is why that word came in to the conversation. (most likely IMO too)

    She said: "Even if the woman had expressed a fear of being in the car with the Gardai" and "I think it is a fair point, that if they were being manhandled, that there might well have been a fear of being with the guards" "if a woman mentioned rape in that context, that is a completely different thing".

    Two sentences later she says rape isn't funny.

    So, the national womens council say it is ok to scream fear of rape whenever it suits, but someone joking about that ridiculous scream is the scum of the earth.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 485 ✭✭the bolt


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    The Gardai are doing a very difficult job in an extremely demanding situation. You should try it. You might dismount from that horse then.
    show me where i said they were not doing a demanding job my point is that they are doing a job that they shouldnt be ask to do in the first place.why should i try it,giving away our (the irish people) our natural resourses to a private company,not something i would want to be part of thanks.maybe you are one of these people that thinks the gardai never do nothing wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Would love to see how wonderfully you'd be dealing with the crap most gardai have to deal with in their working day on top of the type of shift pattern they have to work, very easy sit out on the sidelines throwing bricks.

    Loads of jobs are tough and stressful.. being a Garda, I'm sure, is one of those jobs. But really, that reason can't be used to excuse what happened in this case. Arresting some hippies is hardly the most stressful ordeal in the world, and the Gardai should be properly equipped to deal with the stress of it.

    I'm not even arguing about the joke itself, or whether or not they were out of order. What was said was said, both parties come out of it looking badly. They should take responsibility for what they said though, as should the crusties.. and people should stop trying to score points by blaming one side and not the other. Both played a part in this whole thing.. it should never have been made public but it is, so they should deal with it.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    You're correct of course. People do have a right to peacefully protest. Big difference. Remember when that young guard in Donegal was killed by the joyrider some time ago?

    A few days later at this "protest" some woman was goading the gardai about how it was a pity more of them weren't killed. Absolutely disgusting.

    Funnily enough there was no outcry over that. As usual.
    Sorry but as disgusting as that woman's comments were, they has absolutely nothing to do with this case.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭7sr2z3fely84g5


    i don't think our law recognises women can commit rape or certain sex offences,can anyone clarify that?.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Macha wrote: »
    Sorry but as disgusting as that woman's comments were, they has absolutely nothing to do with this case.

    Aside from giving context to the entire thing, you mean, I assume?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    Macha wrote: »
    Freddie59 wrote: »
    You're correct of course. People do have a right to peacefully protest. Big difference. Remember when that young guard in Donegal was killed by the joyrider some time ago?

    A few days later at this "protest" some woman was goading the gardai about how it was a pity more of them weren't killed. Absolutely disgusting.

    Funnily enough there was no outcry over that. As usual.
    Sorry but as disgusting as that woman's comments were, they has absolutely nothing to do with this case.

    yes it has, when you have a group of protesters claiming to be squeaky clean who have themselves been guilty of shocking abuse. By the way I think susan McKay and the rape crisis centre owe these gardai an apology for their quick guilty verdits


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    i don't think our law recognises women can commit rape or certain sex offences,can anyone clarify that?.

    Under irish law a woman cannot rape a man. A woman can rape a woman with an object.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    You said that the sneaky crusties left the thing on, as if they knew that the Gardai were going to start making jokes about rape. I'm just pointing out the utter stupidity of the Gardai involved. Between 3 of them they weren't even competent enough to check the videos on the recorder for potential evidence. If they had the sense to check if the thing was still on, then none of this would have come to light. Their own idiocy & ignorance is responsible for this whole thing just as much as any of the protesters.

    Are you suggesting they should have erased the footage?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    Are you suggesting they should have erased the footage?

    I'm suggesting that they could have switched the recorder off after confiscating it. Really does boggle the mind that they never had the sense to check if it was running. They obviously didn't look through the contents of the tape either, because I doubt they would have left that particular recording intact when handing it back.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    Are you suggesting they should have erased the footage?

    I'm suggesting that they could have switched the recorder off after confiscating it. Really does boggle the mind that they never had the sense to check if it was running. They obviously didn't look through the contents of the tape either, because I doubt they would have left that particular recording intact when handing it back.

    people make mistakes! The mind need not boggle!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Loads of jobs are tough and stressful.. being a Garda, I'm sure, is one of those jobs. But really, that reason can't be used to excuse what happened in this case. Arresting some hippies is hardly the most stressful ordeal in the world, and the Gardai should be properly equipped to deal with the stress of it.

    I'm not even arguing about the joke itself, or whether or not they were out of order. What was said was said, both parties come out of it looking badly. They should take responsibility for what they said though, as should the crusties.. and people should stop trying to score points by blaming one side and not the other. Both played a part in this whole thing.. it should never have been made public but it is, so they should deal with it.
    I am not blaming anybody just saying no big deal when taken in context of the comments made during the arrest. Guys joked about what was said to them. Making light of offensive comments made to them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,395 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Lucky the garda weren't hungry. If one said "i'd kill for a sandwich" there would be uproar about the police discussing murder in a light hearted manor.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    I'm suggesting that they could have switched the recorder off after confiscating it. Really does boggle the mind that they never had the sense to check if it was running. They obviously didn't look through the contents of the tape either, because I doubt they would have left that particular recording intact when handing it back.

    What would that accomplish other than changing the headline to "Gardaí in arrest cover up" or something like that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    the bolt wrote: »
    show me where i said they were not doing a demanding job my point is that they are doing a job that they shouldnt be ask to do in the first place.why should i try it,giving away our (the irish people) our natural resourses to a private company,not something i would want to be part of thanks.maybe you are one of these people that thinks the gardai never do nothing wrong.

    Actually I am not. I am no fan of the Gardai. But when I see the situation with this STS crowd it makes my blood boil. i see you have chosen not to comment on the remark about the young Garda in Donegal. I'm all for peaceful protests.
    but I am 100% against the tactics deployed in this instance.

    It is inexcusable, with no justification whatsoever. I saw a similar protest elsewhere in the country about another issue at close hand. Thuggery and rent-a-mob didn't even cover it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Macha wrote: »
    Sorry but as disgusting as that woman's comments were, they has absolutely nothing to do with this case.
    You cannot mean that. Seriously. It is an insight into the thinking behind this "protest". Parents had lost a young member of their family in tragic circumstances. And some tool was using it to goad Gardai at that site.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    police discussing murder in a light hearted manor.

    Now that would be a jovial country house.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    This just proves that we need to stop being so quick to assume the Gardai are in the wrong all the time.

    What was said in that tape was nothing more than a joke and it was taken way out of context.

    Perhaps people will now think twice before jumping on the Garda-bashing bandwagon at any oppertunity.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    This just proves that we need to stop being so quick to assume the Gardai are in the wrong all the time.

    What was said in that tape was nothing more than a joke and it was taken way out of context.

    Perhaps people will now think twice before jumping on the Garda-bashing bandwagon at any oppertunity.


    We miss you on the other thread......... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056342230


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Toby Take a Bow


    This just proves that we need to stop being so quick to assume the Gardai are in the wrong all the time.

    It doesn't really. NUI Maynooth (I think it was Maynooth) claimed they deleted footage that had nothing to do with the Gardai investigation. Whether that's true or not, we don't know yet. They claim to have offered to show the ombudsman exactly what they were deleting, but the ombudsman refused. The facts aren't quite facts yet.
    What was said in that tape was nothing more than a joke and it was taken way out of context.

    If I'd been caught making a joke about raping a customer when I was in retail, I'd've been immediately fired. No disciplinary hearing, no nothing: out the door, here's your p45, don't call us for a reference. I might've been annoyed at getting caught, but I wouldn't really be angry except at my own stupidity. And this is working behind a counter, I'm not someone who's supposed to be looking after the welfare of people and upholding the law. I'm not saying the Gardai deserve to be fired, but they definitely need to be told to cop the f*ck on. This applies even if all the 'context' that people are implying is actually the case (and it very well might be the case).

    Perhaps people will now think twice before jumping on the Garda-bashing bandwagon at any oppertunity.[/QUOTE]

    The same could be said about certain people immediately jumping in to applaud the Gardai regardless of what they have or haven't done.


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