Real life racist?

Ush1 · 28-07-2011 10:46AM

FatherLen wrote: »

ha would you like me to get you a higher horse????
i cant really explain myself easily but i would never judge a person before getting to know them irrespective of there race, but i just hate when i am paying for the luas or sitting in traffic and a gypsie comes up and asks me for money. dont worry i feel the same fustration towards the irish junkies that do it too. i hold no ill feelings towards romanians but like in every community they have bad apples. so i apologise if i didnt explain myself fully.
also sorry if "gypsie" is not the pc word

"I hear you're a racist now father!" :pac:

Riamfada · 28-07-2011 10:46AM

wonderfulname wrote: »

Really? Cause last time I checked travellers were the same race as settled people...

Strictly we should be talking about xenophobia here, still doesn't cover travellers but racism doesn't cover Europe although I ran with it in the last post...

Travellers claim a seperate ethnicity. Sorry to break it to you man but your a big dirty filthy racist bastard.

Frank Black · 28-07-2011 10:47AM

squod wrote: »

Don't get you.

What's not to get?

Race is classification of humans into large and distinct populations or groups by factors such as heritable phenotypic characteristics or geographic ancestry, but also often influenced by and correlated with traits such as appearance, culture, ethnicity, and socio-economic status.

wonderfulname · 28-07-2011 10:47AM

black francis wrote: »

You need to check again.

race 1 (rs)
n.
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

Cau·ca·sian (kô-kzhn, -kzhn)
adj.
1.
a. Anthropology Of or being a human racial classification distinguished especially by very light to brown skin pigmentation and straight to wavy or curly hair, and including peoples indigenous to Europe, northern Africa, western Asia, and India. See Usage Note at race1.

Yup, I'm still right...

fabbydabby · 28-07-2011 10:48AM

Whether or not I am a racist wholly depends on whether or not travellers are classified as a race.

Frank Black · 28-07-2011 10:49AM

wonderfulname wrote: »

Yup, I'm still right...

Fraid not.

the_syco · 28-07-2011 10:50AM

Guill wrote: »

The Romanian ones?

I know of no Romanian gypsies, but I hate the Roma ones. And 99% of the travelling community (who don't travel).

black francis wrote: »

Would you like a family of druggies to move into the house beside you?

If you’ve answered ‘no’ to that question (and most of you have), then you’re ignorant.

FYP.

fabbydabby · 28-07-2011 10:50AM

Will ye decide soon because I want to find out if I am a racist or not.

wild_cat · 28-07-2011 10:50AM

orourkeda wrote: »

Absolutely. In addition, anyone who tells that they are not prejudiced in some way is a liar.

I hate children no matter what their race is. So that's my prejudice covered.

Frank Black · 28-07-2011 10:51AM

fabbydabby wrote: »

Whether or not I am a racist wholly depends on whether or not travellers are classified as a race.

My point exactly.

wonderfulname · 28-07-2011 10:52AM

Riamfada wrote: »

Travellers claim a seperate ethnicity. Sorry to break it to you man but your a big dirty filthy racist bastard.

I love how not seeing any distinction between myself and a traveller outside of culture and heritage makes me the bad guy

Richard Hillman · 28-07-2011 10:54AM

Being a traveller is a lifestyle choice not a race.

wonderfulname · 28-07-2011 10:57AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Being a traveller is a lifestyle choice not a race.

It's not a lifestyle choice in all fairness, there's a culture and heritage to it, you don't just up and decide to be a traveller you're born one.

RGDATA! · 28-07-2011 10:57AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Being a traveller is a lifestyle choice not a race.

is being Irish a lifestyle choice?

Chairman Meow · 28-07-2011 11:01AM

Not racist, as in i wouldnt look down on someone of a different colour or wouldnt not talk to them if i worked with the or something.
However ill freely admit to not particularly liking Romas & Travellers. Again not because of the colour of their skin, but because ive never met one who was positively contributing anything to society.

Tho to be brutally honest, as a white man, who grew up in Ireland when it was 99% white Irish people, sometimes it does unnerve me a little to be sitting on a bus surrounded by Asians or hearing nothing but foreign voices. Not that id ever turn around and say go home yiz foreidnn bastards, but it is a but weird still.

Cavehill Red · 28-07-2011 11:04AM

Genetic science has demonstrated that the Victorian concept of race is inherently flawed and useless.

The concomitant concept of 'racism' can therefore mean whatever people want it to mean, as we see on this thread with people claiming that the genetically identical Travellers are somehow a separate 'race' from the rest of the Irish.

As a result of this flexible definition, the threat of 'racism' can be used to stifle debate, about for example immigration, and can be used to seek to enforce both multiculturalism (itself another misnomer), diversity (yet another misnomer) and the insistence that these are universally good and essential developments for society that must be accepted and welcomed by all.

I treat people as I find them as individuals. There is no group of people I judge collectively. Having said that, I think those who do not learn from their own past are fools, destined to repeat the same mistakes seeking different outcomes. Therefore, having had disproportionate numbers of run-ins with certain segments of society in the past, I now generally seek to avoid having such run-ins in future by limiting my engagement with those segments of society.

Yes, this is prejudging, or prejudice. That is human nature, predicated on our ability to learn from experience. I won't be browbeaten by anyone with the threat of 'racism' or any other boogeyman into undoing the lessons I've learnt through my own experience and analysis. If, for example, I find that Travellers thieve from me, I'll generally avoid that community. If, for example, I discover that a disproportionate number of rapists of white women in America are African-American, I will advise such women to limit their engagement with African-American men in circumstances that could lead to rape, such as late at night while drinking. If, for example, I find that Roma gypsies are going door-to-door seeking to intimidate old people and steal or beg from them, I will advise old people of my acquaintance not to open the door to Roma gypsies.

It isn't my responsibility to be Jesus Christ and forgive all sinners their sins. If certain sections of society don't like their public reputation, they ought to work within their own communities to reverse the behaviour of those among them letting them down.

rainbowdrop · 28-07-2011 11:09AM

black francis wrote: »

Would you like a family of Travelers to move into the house beside you?

If you’ve answered ‘no’ to that question (and most of you have), then you’re a racist.

I live across the road from a halting site and tbf they are grand, they have never done me any harm in the 8 years that I'v lived here. They are 'travellers' but not 'knackers', if you get my meaning? ie they keep the halting site clean and tidy, they are forever out washing the footpath, and they have lovely flowers/hanging baskets decorating the place.

In saying that, I have never had a conversation with any of them that went further than 'hello' and I don't know most of their names. They live their life, I live mine and we have nothing to do with each other.

Contrast that to my other neighbours who I have also lived beside for 8years...... I know all their names, I would chat to them over the fence and if I was planning to go away for a few days holiday, I would ask them to keep an eye on my house. I would never, ever tell the travellers that I was going away because I would be afraid that they would get their relatives to rob my house while I'm gone.

Does this make me prejudiced against travellers? Probably! But I wouldn't say it to their face cos I'm a coward:o

wonderfulname · 28-07-2011 11:10AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Genetic science has demonstrated that the Victorian concept of race is inherently flawed and useless.

The concomitant concept of 'racism' can therefore mean whatever people want it to mean, as we see on this thread with people claiming that the genetically identical Travellers are somehow a separate 'race' from the rest of the Irish.

It's well known that scientifically the concept of race is bullsh*t, that doesn't change the fact that a lot of people still think like Victorians and hence it is still relevant from a social perspective.

JohnMarston · 28-07-2011 11:12AM

It's just that the farm takes up most of my day, and at night I just like a cup of tea, I don't think I could devote meself full time to the old racism

Ush1 · 28-07-2011 11:13AM

People may be mistaken on many travellers being the same race as us. Many of them marry with English gypsies which would be of Romanichal stock.

32yg · 28-07-2011 11:14AM

bastados wrote: »

Am not a racist I hate all immigrants equally.

I don't think understand what a racist is.

wonderfulname · 28-07-2011 11:16AM

32yg wrote: »

I don't think understand what a racist is.

Did you consider most immigrants are of the same race as us?

wild_cat · 28-07-2011 11:17AM

wonderfulname wrote: »

Did you consider most immigrants are of the same race as us?

Human. All of us are Human.

Cavehill Red · 28-07-2011 11:18AM

wonderfulname wrote: »

It's well known that scientifically the concept of race is bullsh*t, that doesn't change the fact that a lot of people still think like Victorians and hence it is still relevant from a social perspective.

Because race is a useless term, so is racism. It means whatever the speaker wants it to mean. Like many Africans, I am distrustful of Nigerians in general, who have a continent-wide reputation for dishonesty in Africa. However, I am extremely fond of Ethiopians, Zimbabweans, Mozambicans and many other Africans. Am I therefore 'racist'? It depends on how you define 'race' and 'racism'. Genetically similar people to Nigerians from adjoining countries hold a similar opinion. Are they also racist against people with whom they share a genetic heritage? You see how quickly this descends to farce.

What is actually happening here is prejudice, based on experience of another culture. It has little or nothing to do with the concept of 'race', which we agree is a pointless concept anyway. When antisocial behaviours become associated with certain cultures (such as violence among Travellers, begging among Roma, dishonesty among Nigerians, drunkenness among Irish, etc), then people from other cultures will inevitably learn from previous experience and prejudge all from that culture in the light of that previous experience.

If I go to Melbourne or San Francisco, where the locals have been plagued by drunken Irish students and gappers, I understand why the locals are unhappy to encounter another Irishman. I don't reach for the race card (though it might play well in both locations.) I understand the reasons for the cultural prejudice, and simply attempt to indicate that I, as an individual, am not to be associated with the previous antisocial trend the locals have identified. Similarly, I permit any individual in their dealings with me to demonstrate their worth as a person separate from the general traits associated with their culture.

wonderfulname · 28-07-2011 11:18AM

wild_cat wrote: »

Human. All of us are Human.

I see what you did there!

So if most immigrants are human what are the rest of them?

7Sins · 28-07-2011 11:18AM

I'm not a racist, but I do hate a lot of people including whites! so I'm not all that bad

wonderfulname · 28-07-2011 11:24AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Because race is a useless term, so is racism. It means whatever the speaker wants it to mean. Like many Africans, I am distrustful of Nigerians in general, who have a continent-wide reputation for dishonesty in Africa. However, I am extremely fond of Ethiopians, Zimbabweans, Mozambicans and many other Africans. Am I therefore 'racist'? It depends on how you define 'race' and 'racism'. Genetically similar people to Nigerians from adjoining countries hold a similar opinion. Are they also racist against people with whom they share a genetic heritage? You see how quickly this descends to farce.

What is actually happening here is prejudice, based on experience of another culture. It has little or nothing to do with the concept of 'race', which we agree is a pointless concept anyway. When antisocial behaviours become associated with certain cultures (such as violence among Travellers, begging among Roma, dishonesty among Nigerians, drunkenness among Irish, etc), then people from other cultures will inevitably learn from previous experience and prejudge all from that culture in the light of that previous experience.

If I go to Melbourne or San Francisco, where the locals have been plagued by drunken Irish students and gappers, I understand why the locals are unhappy to encounter another Irishman. I don't reach for the race card (though it might play well in both locations.) I understand the reasons for the cultural prejudice, and simply attempt to indicate that I, as an individual, am not to be associated with the previous antisocial trend the locals have identified. Similarly, I permit any individual in their dealings with me to demonstrate their worth as a person separate from the general traits associated with their culture.

You may find this hard to believe but there is actually genuine racism in Ireland, based on zero experience and the colour of peoples skin, older Irish people who grew up without ever seeing anyone who wasn't Irish have some seriously crackpot beliefs especially with regards black people.

wild_cat · 28-07-2011 11:24AM

wonderfulname wrote: »

I see what you did there!

So if most immigrants are human what are the rest of them?

Lizards? cyborgs? cone heads?

wonderfulname · 28-07-2011 11:25AM

Cyborgs! I like it...

Cavehill Red · 28-07-2011 11:30AM

wonderfulname wrote: »

You may find this hard to believe but there is actually genuine racism in Ireland, based on zero experience and the colour of peoples skin, older Irish people who grew up without ever seeing anyone who wasn't Irish have some seriously crackpot beliefs especially with regards black people.

I don't find that hard to believe, but I do think it is seriously overstated as an argument. Older generations were raised in a very homogenous society, where their exposure to those of other 'races' was determined by a patriarchal concept of charity, propagated by the Church for the most part. Therefore they came to see Africans in particular as lesser beings, ever in need and incapable of self-determination. To a degree, this image is still propagated by the likes of Irish Aid and the NGO industry.

Such ideas will inevitably erode as people replace their received ideas with actual interaction with those from other cultures. Equally, new prejudices will arise based on those actual interactions. There is, for example, now a significant anti-Irish sentiment in the likes of Sweden and Finland, based on the recent behaviours of Irish travellers in those countries in recent years. Prior to this, the reputation of the Irish in those countries was universally positive and amiable. Now it is less so, based on the actual interaction those communities have had with Irish travellers.

So while the replacement of inherited prejudices with actual experience is a useful one, it is not, as the multicultural advocates argue, a universally positive one, since interaction can also result in negative experiences, leading to new (and more accurately based) prejudices against certain cultures.

Real life racist?

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