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Vatican "surprised", "disappointed" by "excessive reactions", recalls

13567…15

Comments

  • #62
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    flutered wrote: »
    i guess i am what is known as a lasped catholic, their attitude, tunnel vision plus complete and absolute arragonce is pushing me further away, how can the decision makers of a worldwide organisation be so far detached from reality.

    I'm very close to becoming what I'd call a "non denominational Christian".
    I will follow the ten commandments. I will try to live by the word of Jesus. I will not accept any human institution or organization as a legitimate representative of God in the world.

    No one has the right to speak for God or to assume anything about his beliefs or his thoughts. But if I had to guess, I would imagine that if Jesus was alive today, the institution of the Catholic Church - not the religion, the organization - would be in line for the same kind of rage and fury which the cheating money changers outside the temple were treated to 2,000 years ago.
    And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all of them who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
    And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

    If that was his reaction to people stealing money, I shudder to imagine what his reaction might be to rape and torture of children.


  • #63
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    From the NYT
    ROME — In a deepening standoff, the Vatican has recalled its ambassador to Ireland

    Well I say let him, & his church go fuck themselves.

    Good riddance to a bad thing.


  • #64
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Why are people still going to mass?

    Why are people still having their kids going through the motions of christenings, communions, and confirmations?

    Why are people still getting married in RC churches?

    All this is showing de facto support for these terrorists and torturers. :mad:


  • #65
    curlzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭curlzy


    Guess what? 95% of Irish schools are run by the Catholic Church, only 5% are educate together or other religions.

    Just thought I'd bring it up that in this country we have the largest ever pedophile ring (I'd say) running our schools, doesn't anyone else find that odd?


  • #66
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Teclo wrote: »
    Obviously not. But if we were to expel everyone in the country who failed to stop child abuse the place would very soon become empty. Among the first to go would be people like Kenny who had the opportunity to introduce mandatory reporting of all child abuse while in government in the 90's but apparently decided against it. Downplaying the rape and torture of children, as some might say.
    Teclo wrote: »
    I can't say that I blame them. After 1600 years trying to civilize us they finally see us for what we are - a rotten bunch of ignorant hypocrites always portraying ourselves as victims.

    And where does 1600 years of trying to civilise us come into this odd picture of yours?


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  • #67
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Just stand back and let them dig their own grave. It's just gonna get worse and worse for them the more they try and justify themselves and their actions.


  • #68
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Why are people still going to mass?

    Why are people still having their kids going through the motions of christenings, communions, and confirmations?

    Why are people still getting married in RC churches?

    All this is showing de facto support for these terrorists and torturers. :mad:

    Stockholm syndrome


  • #69
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    I'm very close to becoming what I'd call a "non denominational Christian".
    I will follow the ten commandments. I will try to live by the word of Jesus. I will not accept any human institution or organization as a legitimate representative of God in the world.

    No one has the right to speak for God or to assume anything about his beliefs or his thoughts. But if I had to guess, I would imagine that if Jesus was alive today, the institution of the Catholic Church - not the religion, the organization - would be in line for the same kind of rage and fury which the cheating money changers outside the temple were treated to 2,000 years ago.
    That's fair enough, there's nothing wrong with living your life to the teachings of Jesus, he seemed like a nice guy with good intentions. Although I'd wonder how much of his teachings made it through to the bible without corruption.

    The only problem as I see it with people doing DIY religion is they can make up any old nonsense. I think cutting yourself off from a community and the exchange of culture and ideas always leads to some strange behaviour in humans.


  • #70
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    I would pay good folding money to wish him arrivederci with my toe up his hole just before he boards that flight :)


  • #71
    Sykk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Sykk


    One thing I don't understand...

    An organisation named "Google" - wealthy and powerful had a bunch of it's employees going around raping kids, covering it up and then getting exposed.

    The CEO along with everybody who was involved in the abuse and cover up going to prison with life sentences.

    If you replace the work "Google" with "Catholic Church", how is it any different? I don't get how these disgusting people are not behind bars, never mind making public statements declaring some bull**** excuse..

    They're an organization like everyone else.. Why should they be exempt from punishment?

    The whole thing is disgusting and It's an outrage that they're not all serving life long prison sentences.


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  • #72
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    ScumLord wrote: »
    That's fair enough, there's nothing wrong with living your life to the teachings of Jesus, he seemed like a nice guy with good intentions. Although I'd wonder how much of his teachings made it through to the bible without corruption.

    The only problem as I see it with people doing DIY religion is they can make up any old nonsense. I think cutting yourself off from a community and the exchange of culture and ideas always leads to some strange behaviour in humans.

    As opposed to letting others do it for you and having it taught to you by your parents and then in school?


  • #73
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,331 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Teclo wrote: »
    I can't say that I blame them. After 1600 years trying to civilize us they finally see us for what we are - a rotten bunch of ignorant hypocrites always portraying ourselves as victims.

    I nearly choked laughing at this.


  • #74
    Spread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Spread


    We'll get more tripe from the vatican. Why not expel him (in abstentia) and bolt the door on these people who have been complicit in the rape and degradation of so many young people. If they haven't tidied up their shop by now ...... what chance of them doing it in the future. This corporation - like Murdoch's - needs to be broken up. It also is about time that it's cohorts in the last government were asked serious questions. The men that brokered the knockdown fines are reputed to have connections with Opus Dei. And we all know what this insidious bunch of fruitcakes can get up to in their little incestuous eco system.


  • #75
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    BrerWolf wrote: »
    I may be totally wrong here, but wasn't there some kind of compensation deal done years ago for the abuse cases?

    I kindof remember hearing that they had done a deal where the church would make a one-off payment for all the cases, in return for not having to pay up again, and that their property and holdings were off limits.

    Though I may have just heard this in a pub....

    Do you think the IRA would get such a generous deal if they were to agree compensation for past victims? Money in exchange for effective immunity?

    Pffffft.


  • #76
    wild_cat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    Ruari Quinn won't take much more of this bull after the sisters of Mercy refused to meet him the other day. Its good to finally have a minister not blinded by faith. The same for Gilmore as minister for foreign affairs...


    They legislated for CAB quick enough.. they can bring in something to strike against them now.


    Remove their patronage from every school in the country as a start.


  • #77
    Spread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Spread


    Bambi wrote: »
    I would pay good folding money to wish him arrivederci with my toe up his hole just before he boards that flight :)

    Followed by a major examination for contamination by a Podiatrist.


  • #78
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Why are people still going to mass?

    Why are people still having their kids going through the motions of christenings, communions, and confirmations?

    Why are people still getting married in RC churches?

    All this is showing de facto support for these terrorists and torturers. :mad:
    Because not all of them are, and people still have their faith


  • #79
    pragmatic1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    Sykk wrote: »
    One thing I don't understand...

    An organisation named "Google" - wealthy and powerful had a bunch of it's employees going around raping kids, covering it up and then getting exposed.

    The CEO along with everybody who was involved in the abuse and cover up going to prison with life sentences.

    If you replace the work "Google" with "Catholic Church", how is it any different? I don't get how these disgusting people are not behind bars, never mind making public statements declaring some bull**** excuse..

    They're an organization like everyone else.. Why should they be exempt from punishment?

    The whole thing is disgusting and It's an outrage that they're not all serving life long prison sentences.
    Because Jesus is magic.


  • #80
    wild_cat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Because not all of them are, and people still have their faith

    What kind of God sends the people in question to be the head of his church?

    How can people not get that?


  • #81
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Why are people still going to mass?

    Why are people still having their kids going through the motions of christenings, communions, and confirmations?

    Why are people still getting married in RC churches?

    All this is showing de facto support for these terrorists and torturers. :mad:


    I think we can all agree that the organisation is quite evil. Now, what about the members?

    If I were to join and pay subscription dues to the Irish Nazi Party, would that reflect badly on my character? What if I just attended meetings and didn't think that immigration is necessarily a bad thing, would my support of the organisation be any less contemptible? I don't think so.

    This organisation has been a filthy and morally bankrupt clique for most if not all of its existence. Attending mass is supporting this. If a person doesn't like what the church has been up to lately, I don't see how they can justify propping it up. If they are doing it out of familial expectation or out of habit, then that's spineless. If they are doing it due to their belief in God, then they don't need the RCC for that. All they need is a bible.

    There is no good reason for people to be propping up this lot. Catholics need to grow a pair and realise that the RCC is very unchristian. Seriously, what would Jesus think about the Vatican City's wealth and the covering up of child abuse?

    Anyone going to RCC mass on Sunday should realise that they are supporting an organisation that shields paedophiles. If you're still into God and all that stuff, please, stop supporting the Vatican and become a protestant or something. There is no good reason to support the leftovers of the Roman Empire.


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  • #82
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Downlinz wrote: »
    tl;dr: I'm on the same side as everyone else here but people need to stop looking at press releases like this through the eyes of an hysterical, emotional fat woman staring at a basket of chocolate she can never reach. It makes us look like the illogical, unreasonable and dismissive ones with an agenda against the catholic church.

    No, the actions of the current government makes Ireland look like a country that has finally decided once and for all that as a sovereign republic, its laws are more important than Rome's. And it is about friggin' time.


  • #83
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    No, the actions of the current government makes Ireland look like a country that has finally decided once and for all that as a sovereign republic, its laws are more important than Rome's. And it is about friggin' time.
    Dont know how you figured that out with the whole going with cap in hand and giving up sovereignty


  • #84
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    I'm with Enda on this. Half of them people in the RC church need a kick in the hole.


  • #85
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Because not all of them are, and people still have their faith

    You don't need to go to a building owned by a bunch of child rapists and their protectors to continue with your faith.


  • #86
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    You don't need to go to a building owned by a bunch of child rapists and their protectors to continue with your faith.
    You are being very simplistic over this, communion, confession etc is a vital part of peoples faith


    Many local priests are just as sickened and angry over all this as you are, there are tons of decent priests.


    My mother is sickened over all of this, but she hasnt let it destroy her faith, still tries to get me to go to mass, alas football manager demanded my attention


  • #87
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    You are being very simplistic over this, communion, confession etc is a vital part of peoples faith


    Many local priests are just as sickened and angry over all this as you are, there are tons of decent priests.


    My mother is sickened over all of this, but she hasnt let it destroy her faith, still tries to get me to go to mass, alas football manager demanded my attention

    so what? who cares if there are decent priests im sure there were decent facists who were kind to their mothers and small dogs.

    the fact is that this is an Institution with laws, membership and a foreign state that systematically and as a matter of policy covered up child abuse, conspired to facilitate it and has shown contempt for Irish laws. There is no excusing it and the fact that there are some decent priests doesnt mean their organisation is any less rotten.


  • #88
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Dont know how you figured that out with the whole going with cap in hand and giving up sovereignty

    Hence why I said ROME and not BRUSSELS. ;)


  • #89
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    As opposed to letting others do it for you and having it taught to you by your parents and then in school?
    Groups that break away base their nonsense on that nonsense making for a whole heap of absolute nonsense and it just get's out of hand. At least if everyone believes the same nonsense it reduces the chance of radical nonsense that causes so much trouble.


  • #90
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    You are being very simplistic over this, communion, confession etc is a vital part of peoples faith

    Many local priests are just as sickened and angry over all this as you are, there are tons of decent priests.

    My mother is sickened over all of this, but she hasnt let it destroy her faith, still tries to get me to go to mass, alas football manager demanded my attention

    The sacraments are a vital part of being Catholic, not having faith. Those are two distinctly different issues.

    I know many nuns and priests who have dedicated their lives to social justice and improving the lives of the poor and downtrodden, and I admire their commitment. But at the end of the day, it has become impossible for me (and I suspect many others) to rectify the good works of many of the frontline clergy with the evildoing of the church hierarchy.

    To look at it somewhat differently (and yes I know faith issues are more complicated), it's like the difference between corporate headquarters and a distributor. For example, I think Shell (the oil company) is one of the world's most politically and environmentally irresponsible corporations. But should I buy gasoline from them because the guy who owns the local Shell gas station is nice and sponsored the local football team? At what point do you cut off the distributors because of the sins of the headquarters? Personally I passed that point with the RCC hierarchy a long time ago - they have never learned and they never will.


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  • #91
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    wild_cat wrote: »
    What kind of God sends the people in question to be the head of his church?

    How can people not get that?

    Its not "His" Church, it is "A" Church.

    Contrary to what they think, the vatican does not have the monopoly on Christianity.


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