Major changes to welfare and training ahead...

amacca · 25-07-2011 12:27PM

generalmental wrote: »

But realistically who wants to do that. Majority of people who are on Unemployment Assistance would rather have a job a purpose, not just to scrounge off the welfare.

its not a case of what you want to do with this...if you cant afford your mortgage it may eventually get to the point where you wont get to keep the property

the post seemed to insinuate that without a mortgage you couldnt have a home address and thus couldnt get social welfare..thus social welfare should in some way help to pay the mortgage ...I was just stating that this is not or should not be true

agreed that the majority of people on unemployment should want to get a job

however those that dont (for no good reason) should be weeded out

Logical Fallacy · 25-07-2011 12:30PM

Whats the point in making sure people are better off in work than on Welfare?

It's a reasonably limited group of people who actually benefit from Welfare to the point that tabloids love...most other people are ****ed.

If they want to do something truly helpful...invest in jobs.

DoesNotCompute · 25-07-2011 12:31PM

phasers wrote: »

Is that a joke? How could I afford to go abroad?

Ryanair to London (Gatwick) is £20 anyday of the week.

Sail and Rail from Dublin to London is £30 all in.

drunkmonkey · 25-07-2011 12:33PM

phasers wrote: »

Is that a joke? How could I afford to go abroad?

Phasers we can't afford to keep you here, that's what this thread is about, savage cuts to social welfare will be coming down the line. If you've only little money head for the UK but you probably don't need to.
Get off the internet for a week, put the head down and find some work even if it's only part time. Bang on doors, go to agencies, drop into shops with your cv. There is work out there but it won't just pop up in your email some day you need to go get it, contact all your friends, see do they know of anything going on. Take anything your offered just to get your started.

amacca · 25-07-2011 12:33PM

sunflower27 wrote: »

Yes, I can rent out my place (if I can get a tenant) but the rent would be approximately 400e less than what the mortgage calls for. I cannot make that up.

sigh......I never once mentioned or suggested you should rent out your place you have an existing mortgage on.........

go on check back over my posts..try find where I suggested that

there is a need to re quote when you repeatedly and wilfully misinterpret what someone posts ...and reposts etc

snubbleste · 25-07-2011 12:34PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Phasers we can't afford to keep you here, that's what this thread is about, savage cuts to social welfare will be coming down the line. If you've only little money head for the UK but you probably don't need to.
Get off the internet for a week, put the head down and find some work even if it's only part time.....

:eek:

dsmythy · 25-07-2011 12:36PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

But no. I've not applied for retail jobs. I'm presuming you mean stacking shelves or so forth. This is the part I'm going to get attacked for. People are going to say its elitist and that I feel a sense of entitlement and to an extent, thats true. But I see my friends who dropped out of college and uni after year one, and people who never even bothered working hard, and they are the people in stacking shelves and doing those jobs. With no offence intended but knowing the responses coming for this, I did not work my ass off for five years, sacrifice my social life and opt to be broke for years to end up doing the same job my unqualified friends do. I worked my ass off, got my qualifications and sacrificed so I would NOT have to be stuck in those dead end jobs. I did not spend those five years working my fingers to the bone in the education system to come out and go into jobs that my friends who couldn't be assed to do the same could get.

So yeah, there's a big target for people. Feel free to rip into that.

Not going to rip, but all sympathy has just drained out of most people for you. You can get a crappy job and still apply for the ones you really want, just saying.

sunflower27 · 25-07-2011 12:36PM

amacca wrote: »

its not a case of what you want to do with this...if you cant afford your mortgage it may eventually get to the point where you wont get to keep the property

the post seemed to insinuate that without a mortgage you couldnt have a home address and thus couldnt get social welfare..thus social welfare should in some way help to pay the mortgage ...I was just stating that this is not or should not be true

agreed that the majority of people on unemployment should want to get a job

however those that dont (for no good reason) should be weeded out

If I was to move out and get rental assistance then that is what welfare money would go on - accommodation. There are plenty of people living in homes they bought and using the SW to keep their heads above water with their homes. And why shouldn't they? Others are happy to piss it up the wall with drink and drugs, buy designer clothes or whatever...

How people spend their welfare is their business and I would say trying to keep the banks at bay whilst in a difficult period is a far better way of spending the money than drinking it or going on trips away?

In fact, I think those with the sense to keep up their motgage payments to the best of their ability are the smart ones

wild_cat · 25-07-2011 12:38PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I know I'm going to lose support with this post. I know I'm setting myself up for an attack here. But hey, screw it. Here goes.

I've applied for a few positions outside the teaching sector, for positions I think my qualifications would be handy. I've also been checking the job sites and the papers when I can to see if I can find a position which is "befitting", so to speak, my qualifications. Hell, I'd even be up for ones which I'd be slightly overqualified for. I'm finding the problem with those though are they don't want you unless you have experience. So you get stuck in this cycle where you can't get a job without experience and you can't get experience without a job.

But no. I've not applied for retail jobs. I'm presuming you mean stacking shelves or so forth. This is the part I'm going to get attacked for. People are going to say its elitist and that I feel a sense of entitlement and to an extent, thats true. But I see my friends who dropped out of college and uni after year one, and people who never even bothered working hard, and they are the people in stacking shelves and doing those jobs. With no offence intended but knowing the responses coming for this, I did not work my ass off for five years, sacrifice my social life and opt to be broke for years to end up doing the same job my unqualified friends do. I worked my ass off, got my qualifications and sacrificed so I would NOT have to be stuck in those dead end jobs. I did not spend those five years working my fingers to the bone in the education system to come out and go into jobs that my friends who couldn't be assed to do the same could get.

So yeah, there's a big target for people. Feel free to rip into that.

.

I'm not going to rip you a part. But everyone else I know that is in the same boat as yourself is either applying for or working in a job they are way over qualified for.

and tbh I'm sick of people complaining that they can't get a job when all that is wrong is they can't get their dream job etc.

I'm over qualified for what I do. As is my boyfriend (unbelievable over qualified for what he does but this sense of entitlement some people have drives him nuts - also has a few things in the pipeline other than the menial job). I only work a few days a week and am trying to generate my own income at the moment from a few things I have in the pipeline.

amacca · 25-07-2011 12:39PM

dsmythy wrote: »

Not going to rip, but all sympathy has just drained out of most people for you. You can get a crappy job and still apply for the ones you really want, just saying.

I understand his point though

its a kick in the balls to sacrifice and work hard to end up in the same place as those that did not (if thats truly the case)

nevertheless, you're right...take whatever job you can get and use it as a stepping stone to something else

if he continues to work hard etc he will succeed

My name is URL · 25-07-2011 12:39PM

I think cutting the dole is fair enough.. it makes sense right now. But the amount of spiel coming from the government atm about the whole issue of welfare and the subsequent rabble amongst the masses is asinine. Overhauling the welfare system isn't going to get people back to work, and providing the likes of the internship and training schemes isn't going to mean that more jobs are available.

Also, for how long is Kenny's speech about Cloyne going to be mentioned? Ah sure he's a great man damning those pesky Vatican officials isn't he.. who cares that he's effectively planning on pushing thousands of people below the poverty line?

generalmental · 25-07-2011 12:40PM

You had my vote up until this

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

You know what really gets me though? Why are the likes of me being targeted? Someone who has done everything right in terms of working hard and trying to achieve something? Meanwhile, I look in council estates and rough areas where people are making lifestyle choices to get pregnant asap in their young teens, grab a council house and live off benefits for the rest of their lives. Why is it that I am getting punished and hounded out of my country for reasons beyond my control, while people who actually make it their lives to abuse the system are left untouched? I know of one guy who I went to school with who dropped out at 16, had five kids by 20 and he has his own house, an amazing car and constantly is wearing brand new Nike clothes, all paid for by state benefits. But here I am, having worked hard to do things "right", and I'm being told to **** off out of the country or starve without any state support.

Yeah, there's that elitism again, I know....

You see that person who has all the new Nike and the spanky car all he is doing is playing the system and bringing up the fact that he/she lives in a council estate is plain wrong... You see my point is not one of the b/**** grew up in a council estate but yet they played the system but when they played they also played with so many people`s lives and really fooked up.

Corruption is corruption, it does not matter what side of the water you come from

Lux23 · 25-07-2011 12:40PM

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Ryanair to London (Gatwick) is £20 anyday of the week.

Sail and Rail from Dublin to London is £30 all in.

So where would we sleep, eat while we are there looking for a job?

syklops · 25-07-2011 12:41PM

mathie wrote: »

Dole threads on AH are like buses.... large rectangular shaped vehicles that transport passengers.

And you dont see any for a while and then 3 come along at the same time.

drunkmonkey · 25-07-2011 12:42PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

But no. I've not applied for retail jobs. I'm presuming you mean stacking shelves or so forth. This is the part I'm going to get attacked for. People are going to say its elitist and that I feel a sense of entitlement and to an extent, thats true. But I see my friends who dropped out of college and uni after year one, and people who never even bothered working hard, and they are the people in stacking shelves and doing those jobs. With no offence intended but knowing the responses coming for this, I did not work my ass off for five years, sacrifice my social life and opt to be broke for years to end up doing the same job my unqualified friends do.

You should be given no dole, nothings, nada, If your not prepared to take any Job or even look for jobs outside your qualifications.
Who cares what your qualified at that means very little as you'll discover the older you get, you've failed to get work and your sitting on a high horse looking down at people with jobs. Get out off your ass and get a job, any job no more bull crap excuses.

sunflower27 · 25-07-2011 12:43PM

Lux23 wrote: »

So where would we sleep, eat while we are there looking for a job?

I think the point was to apply for jobs, get the interview, be there and back in a day.

I know a few people that applied for jobs in London and went for interviews, got them and are happily settled. I know it isn't for everyone though but I'd do it if I could

amacca · 25-07-2011 12:43PM

sunflower27 wrote: »

If I was to move out and get rental assistance then that is what welfare money would go on - accommodation. There are plenty of people living in homes they bought and using the SW to keep their heads above water with their homes. And why shouldn't they? Others are happy to piss it up the wall with drink and drugs, buy designer clothes or whatever...

How people spend their welfare is their business and I would say trying to keep the banks at bay whilst in a difficult period is a far better way of spending the money than drinking it or going on trips away?

In fact, I think those with the sense to keep up their motgage payments to the best of their ability are the smart ones

no argument there....you've got to do whats best for you

and holding on to the house/apartment may well be the best decision

I'm not arguing against that I hope you realize

just posts insinuating that somehow the purpose of social welfare is to support people with their mortgage repayments.....its not, or at least it shouldn't be...if people can do this though why shouldn't they...the system is obviously at fault though if this is the case (went wrong a long time ago)

generalmental · 25-07-2011 12:45PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Phasers we can't afford to keep you here, that's what this thread is about, savage cuts to social welfare will be coming down the line. If you've only little money head for the UK but you probably don't need to.
Get off the internet for a week, put the head down and find some work even if it's only part time. Bang on doors, go to agencies, drop into shops with your cv. There is work out there but it won't just pop up in your email some day you need to go get it, contact all your friends, see do they know of anything going on. Take anything your offered just to get your started.

Bill Cullen is that you

Lord TSC · 25-07-2011 12:47PM

generalmental wrote: »

You had my vote up until this

You see that person who has all the new Nike and the spanky car all he is doing is playing the system and bringing up the fact that he/she lives in a council estate is plain wrong... You see my point is not one of the b/**** grew up in a council estate but yet they played the system but when they played they also played with so many people`s lives and really fooked up.

Corruption is corruption, it does not matter what side of the water you come from

Oh hey, don't get me wrong. Anyone who plays the system should be delt with, bankers and chavs alike. Anyone who abuses the system, and thus hurts people who don't and are unemployed for legit reasons and want to work, should be tackled as well. Don't get me started on those bankers.

My point is (and I'm actually appreciating the muted response in terms of personal attacks; genernally on the 'net, a post like my last one would get me torn apart :P) I worked my way through Uni and sacrificed to avoid the ****ty jobs. I've no intentions of taking a job that any person without even their LCs need. I did what I did specifically so I never would have to do that.

You can get a crappy job and still apply for the ones you really want, just saying.

Again, I get your point. But is doing that crappy job going to make it easier to get a better one? Is the situation going to improve in a manner that while doing that job, a good one will arise? I don't think so. Rather, I'd be stuck in a crappy job with no chance of escape, working my way even deeper into a sense of depression and hopelessness.

Now, I'll add something to all this. If the dole does get cut, I'll be annoyed but I won't be out protesting. I won't be kicking up a major fuss about it all, cause I'll understand it kind of needs to be done. More, my annoyance is really one thats been building up, caused by the attitudes towards emigration, the whole slavebridge scheme and a general sense that the people being targeted by the cuts and the "Forced to train" schemes are not nessecarily the ones who should be targeted and punished but are targetted cause they are an "easy" target...

Lux23 · 25-07-2011 12:47PM

sunflower27 wrote: »

I think the point was to apply for jobs, get the interview, be there and back in a day.

I know a few people that applied for jobs in London and went for interviews, got them and are happily settled. I know it isn't for everyone though but I'd do it if I could

But how do you pay rent while waiting to get paid?

sunflower27 · 25-07-2011 12:50PM

amacca wrote: »

no argument there....you've got to do whats best for you

and holding on to the house/apartment may well be the best decision

I'm not arguing against that I hope you realize

just posts insinuating that somehow the purpose of social welfare is to support people with their mortgage repayments.....its not, or at least it shouldn't be...if people can do this though why shouldn't they...the system is obviously at fault though if this is the case (went wrong a long time ago)

Where did I say the purpose of social welfare was to pay mortgages? I said that in my situation, that is where most of it will go. I live on very little now (not that I mind so much, food is cheap enough) so any SW money I have left is saved so I can hold on to my home down the line.

I am not planning on doing this forever, I'm bored and miss being able to travel and treat myself to nice things, but that's the way things are presently. I don't understand why anyone would not want to have a comfortable life and be fulfilled with doing a decent day's work. Obviously, there are those that are OK with that, but anyone that I personally know on SW (including myself) hate it. Grateful, of course, but I'm not happy to accept it as my new lifestyle. :pac:

mackg · 25-07-2011 12:53PM

Lux23 wrote: »

So where would we sleep, eat while we are there looking for a job?

Sleep: come back the same day.

Eat: bring some sandwiches with you.

This is genuine advice that has worked for people we know, it's not an insult. If it's not for you cool I don't know every detail of your circumstances but someone reading the thread might give it a whirl and get something out of it so surely it was worth posting.

sunflower27 · 25-07-2011 12:53PM

Lux23 wrote: »

But how do you pay rent while waiting to get paid?

When I first moved to Ireland and got a job I was struggling and got an advance on my pay for a month to tie me over. If a company wants you, they are going to understand your predicament.

London rent can be expensive in some areas (I lived there for a few years many years ago) but it is so big that you can live in areas where rent is reasonable.

monkeypants · 25-07-2011 12:55PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

But no. I've not applied for retail jobs. I'm presuming you mean stacking shelves or so forth. This is the part I'm going to get attacked for. People are going to say its elitist and that I feel a sense of entitlement and to an extent, thats true. But I see my friends who dropped out of college and uni after year one, and people who never even bothered working hard, and they are the people in stacking shelves and doing those jobs. With no offence intended but knowing the responses coming for this, I did not work my ass off for five years, sacrifice my social life and opt to be broke for years to end up doing the same job my unqualified friends do. I worked my ass off, got my qualifications and sacrificed so I would NOT have to be stuck in those dead end jobs. I did not spend those five years working my fingers to the bone in the education system to come out and go into jobs that my friends who couldn't be assed to do the same could get.

I understand your point, but you're just going to have to do something. I was unemployed for 14 months, until October 2010 and I went round my local area, knocking doors and offering to do odd jobs around the house and garden, painting and walking dogs. I was applying for jobs that suited my qualifications and 13 years of industry experience (IT), but I also had to keep busy and contribute.

Now you might find that you won't be able to get these menial jobs because you're seen as being overqualified. But you've got to do something. When you do walk into an interview, you'll be asked about what you've been doing recently. I was unemployed for 14 months, yet I was able to point towards some OU education, the stuff that I described above, job hunting and charity work. How are you going to answer that question?

I've interviewed hundreds of people over the years in a couple of different countries and it's a question that gets asked if there's a gap in a CV or it's brand new. If I didn't receive a satisfactory answer, then there'd be no chance of getting the role. I don't know how teaching works, probably interview committees, but I suspect that sitting around waiting wouldn't be considered satisfactory for them either.

woody1 · 25-07-2011 12:57PM

there seems to be a bit of a myth developing that there is work out there..
im not claiming any welfare payments of any kind..but i am in a 3 day week job making less than the dole would pay me..given that if i was on the dole i could mind my kids and not have to pay for childcare,..anyway getting back to the point, im in a menial job that i got thru knowing a man that knows a man..after my previous job in architecture went, im college educated up to degree level.. im not elitist .. il clean toilets if it pays more than where i am now.. i have been looking regularly on the internet, in the local papers and around my hometown for the past year at least.. yes there are a few jobs advertised.. bar work, retail,hotel stuff,bookies are always advertising for part time work..ive applied for everything...BUT..i and a lot of other people have no experience in any of these fields..and youd say its menial work what experience do you need..probably very little but the employer is always going to take the guy with experience over the guy with none... and obviously all these jobs are getting buckets of applications, my younger brother worked as a barman from secondary school thru college and for a while after.. he has 6 or 7 years experience and was a fairly good barman.. hes applied for any bar job that comes up and has had no luck, he was told one hotel bar man job that came up got over a hundred applications...
im based in ballina in mayo..and there are supposedly jobs coming in hollister ( medical device manufacturing )..but these are specialist jobs and hollister will be looking for particular qualifications / experience , as usual i will apply anyway but i dont hold out hope.. so yes there are jobs advertised but its not as easy as just applying to get them... and the attitude that people are just sitting on their arses taking the dole money and are just not willing to work does my head in...( admittedly there are a minority doing this..but i do believe its a minority )

amacca · 25-07-2011 12:58PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Again, I get your point. But is doing that crappy job going to make it easier to get a better one? Is the situation going to improve in a manner that while doing that job, a good one will arise? I don't think so. Rather, I'd be stuck in a crappy job with no chance of escape, working my way even deeper into a sense of depression and hopelessness..

I'm with you in a lot of what you say but I think (just a personal opinion) you are making a big mistake with the above.

eg: what would be more impressive to a potential employer

1) very well qualified but has been unemployed since they got the qualification

2) well qualified but took the best job they could get in the middle of a recession

to me 2) would be hired everytime (to the type of job you are looking for) shows get up and go, a willingness to roll up your sleeves etc, shows a will to succeed and endure something to get greater reward etc

the best way to get a job is to have one already....nearly no matter what your current job is

you just dont get to wait for ideal jobs/situations to roll along in this life

+ I think you will end up more depressed not working and that will end up being a spiral you wont get out of

drunkmonkey · 25-07-2011 01:00PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Oh hey, don't get me wrong. Anyone who plays the system should be delt with, .

But your playing the system, your being a work snob, looking down on other people with jobs the cheek of you. What do you do today to make yourself feel proud?
Your currently a drain on society those people stacking the shelves in your local supermarket are not. Get off your high horse and start making some kind of effort and if your not prepared to do that go to Korea.

dsmythy · 25-07-2011 01:05PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Again, I get your point. But is doing that crappy job going to make it easier to get a better one? Is the situation going to improve in a manner that while doing that job, a good one will arise? I don't think so. Rather, I'd be stuck in a crappy job with no chance of escape, working my way even deeper into a sense of depression and hopelessness.

Now, I'll add something to all this. If the dole does get cut, I'll be annoyed but I won't be out protesting. I won't be kicking up a major fuss about it all, cause I'll understand it kind of needs to be done. More, my annoyance is really one thats been building up, caused by the attitudes towards emigration, the whole slavebridge scheme and a general sense that the people being targeted by the cuts and the "Forced to train" schemes are not nessecarily the ones who should be targeted and punished but are targetted cause they are an "easy" target...

Technically you're breaking the rules with regards the dole as presumably if you were offered a job you didn't like you would reject it. Your chances of getting the job you want would be the same if you are working or not beforehand. In the meantime you'll have more money in your wallet to spend and the government is handing out less. Some interviewers might be more impressed at your willingness to 'drop down' to other jobs.

amacca · 25-07-2011 01:08PM

sunflower27 wrote: »

Where did I say the purpose of social welfare was to pay mortgages? I said that in my situation, that is where most of it will go.

see below

sunflower27 wrote: »

70e a week or 280e per month. How is someone that finds themselves out of work through no fault of their own meant to house, feed and clothe themselves on that?? Most people would pay more that 280e/month in rent in a shared house. Not to mention those that had mortgages to pay and are now in a position of losing their homes.

call me crazy but your post above would suggest to me that you think the dole should not be lowered as it would not cover mortgage repayments (among other things) for people

you know people other than yourself...not just your situation

mikom · 25-07-2011 01:08PM

mackg wrote: »

TAOISEACH ENDA KENNY has announced a huge shake-up of Ireland’s welfare and training systems over the coming months.

He said the government is set to unveil details of what he called “the most radical shake-up in our welfare, employment and training systems and services in a generation”. The measures aim to “focus our limited resources on those with genuine need” and “make sure people are better off in work than on welfare,” he added.

Kenny is a great man for the ould pre-prepared speeches, but doorstep him and he splutters more than a 20 diesel running on fumes.
Spoof.
I note that the "Job-bridge" internship scam his group introduced is doing well............

JobBridge!!!!There is no point avoiding us,we'll be reporting all employers false declarations to relevant media.Why is Topaz still advertising btw.?Get your act together because if you can't do the job properly,there will be plenty of people willing to replace you

HR Officer - Dublin South Ref. INTE-616617
Experience Required:
Some Experience Required
Minimum Experience: 1 Year

Against the rules but you already knew that because WE TOLD YOU ON THE 14TH OF JULY.

You still didn't answer the question:
So if a host organisation failed to declare that they don't have vacancies in
the area of activity,would they be liable to pay a fine for false daclaration?

I just had a quick look at so called Internships
Fish filleter,florist,warehouse operator,kitchen assistant. those are full time jobs !! who is monitoring those Internships?

Almost a hundred internships went up today and having looked at them I haven't the energy nor the will to point out how many are breaking the 'rules' of your so called scheme. Its obvious that there is no filtering of adverts or else how would they end up there?

By no stretch of the imagination could this be described a an intern-ship. This is outrageous that this site is still posting these jobs even after last weeks ''statement''.

This is no more than a tool to massage the unemployment figures and provide slaves for Business -The Country needs real job creation not gimmicks

This is state sponsored exploitation. Some of the 'internships' offered include kitchen porters & TV producers (experience necessary!). Topaz - which makes major profits and should not be permitted to benefit from free manual labour - advertised paid cashier jobs and then switched them to unpaid "trainee managers". It's equally as rep...rehensible that JobBridge "do not stand over any abuse of this scheme or the presentation of misleading information and will either prevent the uploading of such advertisements to the website or withdraw them if necessary." Not really how Facebook works- if we "like" your page so it features in our news feed we're also entitled to respectfully provide our opinion.

How can the jobs advertised on JobBridge from the Dept of Justice for Citizenship Processing Clerks be considered internships? They are clerical officer jobs. Absolutely disgraceful that the government can pass these off as anything other than that. Definately a race to the bottom.

This is a bad omen.

From here..... http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_109266375807916&ap=1#!/pages/JobBridge/224594244220529

Major changes to welfare and training ahead...

Comments