Oslo bombed

Crazy Horse 6 · 25-07-2011 09:23AM

Pretty_Pistol wrote: »

The picture of the gunman standing at the shoreline surrounded by bodies with a teen further out holding his hand up as if to say don't shoot is so upsetting. If that was taken by the police helicopter I don't get why they didn't take him out. Using snipers or whatever.

You watch way too much movies i'd say. This is real life it ain't no holiday trying to take out a guy with a handgun from a helicopter when said gunman has automatic weapons.

Paparazzo · 25-07-2011 09:34AM

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

http://blogs.forbes.com/johngaudiosi/2011/07/24/norway-suspect-used-activisions-call-of-duty-to-train-for-massacre/

He used Modern Warfare 2 as a simulator?

And World of Warcraft?

Ah come on now Ted

I he really used mw2 he would have went around stabbing people and noobtubing everyone

Seachmall · 25-07-2011 11:13AM

Moomoo1 wrote: »

how does a prejudice against particular ethnic groups keep you alive exactly?

Because from an evolutionary perspective those who lived the longest are those who stuck with their tribe and were suspicious of other tribes. It's not an intelligent decision to prejudice against others who look or dress differently, it's an instinctive one.

Even nowadays our immediate assumptions of others based on their appearance can be beneficial depending on the context, although the vast majority of the times they're misplaced and we have to consciously try to avoid passing judgments based on trivial observations.

Sykk · 25-07-2011 11:28AM

Truly terrible.. Right-wing extremism is just the same as Islamic extremism.. Goes to show it always turns to violence. Disgusting.

I wish these people would go kill eachother elsewhere and let everybody else get on with their lives.

triseke · 25-07-2011 11:31AM

What a horrible couple of days. Im still waiting to hear from a friend of mine in norway. Ive tried calling him, but to no avail.

So many lives lost.

RIP.

Tabnabs · 25-07-2011 11:39AM

The is a large "show your support" type page on the website of the largest newspaper in Norway (whos offices were caught up in the bomb blast)

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/lenke.php

Over half a million people have already contributed.

click on 'Klikk her for å styrke lenken' (click here to strengthen the link/chain)

homerjay2005 · 25-07-2011 11:42AM

whats the death toll at now?

Seachmall · 25-07-2011 11:42AM

Reading through the manifesto he talks a lot about personal freedom while also telling us we need to conform to Judeo-Christian morals and traditions.

In contrast to the classical and Judeo-Christian traditions, which stressed man’s need to understand the moral order and conform himself to it, modern ideologies have sought to dominate and control the world.

That's the real issue with these people; cultural absolutism.

Tabnabs · 25-07-2011 11:45AM

For all the helicopters that were on the scene and in the air that day, none belonged to the Police.

The day when Norway was hit by the worst attacks against the country since World War II, the country had no surveillance helicopter available.

The reason is that the Oslo police had closed down the only police helicopter service for four weeks in the middle of the holidays, from early June to early August.

Several times before, that at Easter 2010 and 2011, management has kept the helicopter on the ground to save money.

Oslo police still refuses that the helicopter was on the ground in terror-day because the police lacked money, but says it's about the best holiday rostering:

- We have a limited number of people to operate the helicopter. Oslo police take this crew into the holidays, instead of having a limited capacity for a long time, if one were to distribute this holiday over a longer period, said John Fuller, who is a police inspector and head of the joint operational section of the Oslo police.

The police helicopter has very sophisticated monitoring equipment, can take close-ups from several kilometres away and provide very useful information the police can use in otherwise chaotic situations.

The helicopter is operated through the budget of the Oslo police.

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norge/1.7725967
via Google translate

prinz · 25-07-2011 11:59AM

Tabnabs wrote: »

The is a large "show your support" type page on the website of the largest newspaper in Norway (whos offices were caught up in the bomb blast)

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/lenke.php

600,000 people with a belief..

Sgt. Sensible · 25-07-2011 12:01PM

golgi wrote: »

could it possibly be that difficult to get to this island, 90 minutes does seem excessive, helicopter ??

Boat and chopper problems, understandable given the how resourcs were focused on the bomb. Sorry for c+p.

Initial reports had claimed that police received the first call about shots being fired 5.02pm which meant Breivik was not arrested for an hour and a half.

However, the fresh timetable claimed that the first call did not come into the local Nordre Buskerud police force until 5.27pm.

Oslo police were informed three minutes later but a lack of suitable helicopters in the capital mean that Swat teams were forced to drive 28 miles across country before they were able to mount an armed assault on Utoya.

The first police patrols began crossing Lake Tyrifjorden at 6.03pm, arriving on the island at 6.25pm.

One of the boats carrying police was too small and began to sink, further hampering the mission.

Erik Berga, police operations chief in northern Buskerud County, said: "The boat was way too small and way too poor. When so many people and equipment were put into it, the boat started to take on water, so that the motor stopped."

Once on the island officers apprehended Breivik within two minutes and he was arrested at 6.27pm.

Sissel Hammer, chief of police of Nordre Buskerud police district, said: "I completely understand that for those caught in the line of fire as well as for their relatives the response time felt long.

"However I ask for understanding of the fact that the deployment of armed police personnel will always require time. Personnel need time to be equipped and armed as well as transported to the scene."

Police conceded that their response was delayed by the decision to send a specialist anti terrorist unit by road from Oslo, 28 miles away, because no helicopters were available in the capital.

opinion guy · 25-07-2011 12:03PM

Surely the Norwegian army have helicopters ???

Tabnabs · 25-07-2011 12:11PM

opinion guy wrote: »

Surely the Norwegian army have helicopters ???

You have to factor in how close the SWAT team was to the nearest air force base, how short a standby time the helicopter was on, how accessible the roads were in Oslo considering the bomb and other threats that were happening at the time (any suspect package was given full attention). Then the administration of requesting and approving an Air Force helicopter for use etc. etc. It was probably quicker to sit into a car and drive at speed.

Tabnabs · 25-07-2011 12:36PM

Reports coming in the a man in Poland has been arrested in connection with the "terror attack".

Seachmall · 25-07-2011 01:05PM

His opening statement, or something similar to what his opening statement will be:

2083, A European Declaration of Independence (Page 1104) wrote:

To the jury and/or members of the court; I am standing here today as a Justiciar Knight
Commander of the PCCTS, Knights Templar, a pan-European organisation which is a part
of the patriotic National Resistance Movements in all Western European countries. I
represent the highest national military and political authority considering the fact that we
are the only military force in this country that represents the free patriotic people, as we
are not on the pay roll of the category A and B traitors that you refer to as your
superiors. When I speak, I speak on behalf of millions of Europeans who does not want to
see their culture and territorial rights taken from them, who does not want to live under
current or future dhimmitude and who does not accept that their own leaders are selling
them against their will to Islamic slavery.

[...]

I would like to begin by saying that of all our attainments, the freedom of our people is
the most precious and the most vulnerable. Preserving our freedom and sovereignty is
what many of our forefathers dedicated their lives to and what so many thousands of our
people have given their lives for. Our freedom, national identity and our culture in this
country is the fruit of centuries even millennia’s of struggles. It is the result of a history
that has no equal and has brought us to where we are today. I will present evidence
proving that the freedom of our people, our culture, our traditions, our Christendom and
our national identity is in the process of being deconstructed by cultural Marxists and
multiculturalists in our country.

[...]

The individuals I have been accused of illegally executing are all category A and B
traitors, guilty of high treason and condemned to death by the highest legal authority in
Europe and our country.

[...]

Am I a Sitting Bull or a Hitler of our time? As you already know, Sitting Bull was a
celebrated hero, a Native American Chief who fought on behalf of his people against
General Armstrong Custer and the US force. Ask yourself, who is the Hitler of the two?
Sitting Bull or General Custer? Was Sitting Bull a terrorist because he fought for the
indigenous rights of his people or was he a hero? That is the question that you will decide
during this trial.

[...]

It is every Europeans duty to defend their people and country against the ideology of
genocide, conquest and destruction known as Islam.

I have nothing against individual Muslims. The problem is that Islam is a political
ideology and the fact that the ongoing Islamisation of our country will eventually be the
end of our freedom. Future generations will wonder how we, in 2010, at this location, in
this room, served our most precious asset.

Will you condemn the patriotic heroes of the Resistance Movement for contributing to
save their people and country from slavery and tyranny? Isn’t it the most basic human
right to save your own people and culture from deliberate genocide and extermination?

The full thing is a long winded rant of "justifications" and claims that he's a hero along with delusional statements about his membership of the Knights Templar.

opinion guy · 25-07-2011 01:07PM

Seachmall wrote: »

His opening statement, or something similar to what his opening statement will be:

Are you a sky news anchor ?

What's your source for this ?

Turtwig · 25-07-2011 01:09PM

opinion guy wrote: »

Are you a sky news anchor ?

What's your source for this ?

Tut Tut, if he was a Sky News anchor then there wouldn't even be a source.;)

Kotek Besar · 25-07-2011 01:10PM

Jesus, Mary and the seven dwarves - he's a bit of a fruit and nut, isn't he.

Nodin · 25-07-2011 01:11PM

Malty_T wrote: »

Tut Tut, if he was a Sky News anchor then there wouldn't even be a source.;)

No, no, thats not true.

There'd be a 'Sky Source'.

Nodin · 25-07-2011 01:12PM

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Jesus, Mary and the seven dwarves - he's a bit of a fruit and nut, isn't he.

Cadburys deluxe - European choclate and extra fruit and nuttiness.

Turtwig · 25-07-2011 01:13PM

Nodin wrote: »

No, no, thats not true.

There'd be a 'Sky Source'.

Yep, the actual sky.:D

Corkfeen · 25-07-2011 01:18PM

opinion guy wrote: »

Are you a sky news anchor ?

What's your source for this ?

A quick google suggests that he has that written in his manifesto. So I wouldn't doubt that being along the lines of what he'll say.

Doesn't seem to be anything to suggest that he has actual members in his group. The manifesto seems to be the only clear example of him attempting to recruit anyone. Granted, we will most likely see people feeling the need to progress his anti - multiculturalism cause and borrowing from ideas in the manifesto (Not even new ideas for that matter.).

prinz · 25-07-2011 01:38PM

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Jesus, Mary and the seven dwarves - he's a bit of a fruit and nut, isn't he.

I don't think he is. That's the problem. Obviously the parts about the kids who murdered being Class B traitors or whatever else is total nonsense but there is enough rhetoric in there to appeal to a lot of people. One man's terrorist, is another man's freedom fighter as the saying goes.

I also note the mention of 2010 in that quote, wondering if it's a typo or if he had the same kind of thing planned for last year that was interrupted, foiled or postponed for some reason.

Seachmall · 25-07-2011 01:44PM

opinion guy wrote: »

Are you a sky news anchor ?

What's your source for this ?

It's from his manifesto (Page 1104) under the title "Example - opening statement for Justiciar Knights or other European resistance fighters".

Duggy747 · 25-07-2011 01:48PM

prinz wrote: »

I also note the mention of 2010 in that quote, wondering if it's a typo or if he had the same kind of thing planned for last year that was interrupted, foiled or postponed for some reason.

At one point he settled on Autumn 2011 and began burying his munitions back in July 2010 in a forest. He seemed to have settled on last Friday since his planned steroid in-take ended that day (when he ran out of supplements) and that he thought he couldn't turn his friends away any longer without arousing suspicion.

Quite a few times he states in his diary how the whole plan would've gone belly up. At one point a woman who sold him the farmhouse was visiting one day to pick something up from one of the sheds, she texting him but he didn't see the text until he woke up and didn't have time to remove all the chemicals and tools so he planned to kill her and start his "evacuation" plan.

In the end he managed to convince her to visit another day.

Tehachapi · 25-07-2011 01:48PM

some delusional psychopath wrote:

It is every Europeans duty to defend their people and country against the ideology of genocide, conquest and destruction known as Islam.

Religious divide causes another 100~ pointless deaths.

But oh no - it's atheists who are the children of satan!

CramCycle · 25-07-2011 01:51PM

prinz wrote: »

I don't think he is.

He is. Being prepared to commit a massacre and giving reasons for it does not make him less of a loon, remember you don't have to be stupid to be a lunatic.

Seachmall · 25-07-2011 01:55PM

Tehachapi wrote: »

Religious divide causes another 100~ pointless deaths.

But oh no - it's atheists who are the children of satan!

Reading his manifesto I get the impression he's not a believer. His criticisms of Islam, like most white separatists/supremacists, are not to do with religion but with it's culture and politics being "forced" on white Europeans through "cultural Marxism".

Essentially he thinks that Judeo-Christian traditions are the only ones that should be practiced in the Western World and anyone who objects are enemies. He opposes all attempts at changing them including anyone who thinks woman should be allowed serve in uniforms, these women he says should be shot on sight. "Islamification" is just what he sees to be the biggest threat, although Marxists are ultimately at fault for encouraging Political Correctness apparently.

This isn't an issue over religion but one man's demented mind and cultural absolutism.

philologos · 25-07-2011 01:59PM

Here's an interesting article from the Guardian on this.

On reading through his posts on document.no, most of his references to Christianity are in respect to demographical fears. He quotes how Bethlehem's Christian population has plummeted and how Lebanon's Christian population is in decline. The closest we get to anything about doctrine is his mention of how he always votes for conservative candidates in church elections and how the Protestant church in Norway should return to Catholicism.

prinz · 25-07-2011 02:02PM

CramCycle wrote: »

He is. Being prepared to commit a massacre and giving reasons for it does not make him less of a loon, remember you don't have to be stupid to be a lunatic.

.....Well it might suit some people to just describe him as a loon or nutcase but I'll keep my own judgement tbh. What I see is a cold, controlled, calculating and driven man. The fact that his plans are still being carried out speaks to this.... put him down as a loon if you wish. Personally I think he is far more dangerous than that. His mind seems sound to me, the only concern is how he applies the faculties he has.

Seachmall wrote: »

This isn't an issue over religion but one man's demented mind and cultural absolutism.

+1.

Oslo bombed

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