Oslo bombed

wild_cat · 24-07-2011 11:18PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I wonder why Russia Today ever got so popular on youtube...

They know how to film a good riot.

opinion guy · 24-07-2011 11:36PM

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Not sure if its been posted, here's a screen grab of his Facebook page
http://www.ngohq.com/images/AndersBehringBreivikFB.jpg

Wow a bit disturbing that Caprica is listed. A big theme in that show is people committing terrorist acts for religious/political reason.

No its alot disturbing actually.

profitius · 24-07-2011 11:42PM

After 2 days its all even more confusing. His metapedia page looks intersting.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

Zionism

Behring was known to have links to Zionism and was an open supporter of the Zionist State in Palestine, also descibing his political views as "anti-racist" and "pro-homosexual" in online writings.[7] For instance, he regularly contributed to the website Document.no, which is ran by Hans Rustad, a Jewish ultra-Zionist and liberal, who has however warned about Islamisation.[7] Some nationalists tend to regard the immigration problem as purposefully implemented, by the people with the same worldview as Rustad to elicit support for Zionism in Europe. Rustad is an opponent of freedom of speech and supports laws against World War II revisionists in relation to the six-million claim.[7]

Youth campers at Utøya the day before the massacre, Boikott Israel ("Boycott Israel") banner.[8]
Soon after the attacks, alternative medias began to speculate whether the alleged perpetrator was really a "lone nut" or a patsy for a plan of higher significance.[9] Specifically in relation to Zionism and potential Mossad involvement, the bombing and shooting spree took place on the sixty-fifth anniversary of the King David Hotel bombing;[10] a terrorist attack against anti-Zionist ethnic Europeans. Both events were reported as having killed almost exactly the same number of people; with figures in the 90s.[11] The bombing part of the campaign, carried out in Oslo, was against the buildings of the oil ministry;[12][13] this choice conflicts with the later media white-wash, which attempted to portray his motivation as based on "immigration". Commentators,[9] have mentioned the fact that, a year earlier, "Oslo excluded two Israeli firms from a €450 billion Euro oil fund for ethical reasons".[9][14]

Under the Arbeiderpartiet government (whose youth wing were shot at Utøya in the massacre), there had been other strains in relations between Norway and the self-described state of Israel, providing further potential political motivation.[15] In March 2011, the junior partner in the Norwegian government, the Sosialistisk Venstreparti, had called for military action against the Zionists if they acted against Hamas in Gaza.[15] Norway had also been one of the states leading the way in the recognition of Palestine. A couple of days before the attacks, Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Støre confirmed that after talks with Mahmoud Abbas he had agreed to recognise Palestinian independence at the UN.[16][17] The day before the attack, Støre had visited the campers at Utøya, and gave a well recieved rousing anti-Zionist speech to the youths; saying that Palestine must be recognised, the occupation ended and the walls demolished.[18][19] Media depicted campers with signs saying Boikott Israel ("Boycott Israel")[8] and there were others with youths waving Palestinian flags.

Diairist · 24-07-2011 11:44PM

is it true he was arrested in his apartment? Does this mean he did what he wanted to do & went home & waited?

WesternNight · 24-07-2011 11:57PM

Diairist wrote: »

is it true he was arrested in his apartment? Does this mean he did what he wanted to do & went home & waited?

What? No.

jill_valentine · 25-07-2011 12:44AM

Charlie Brooker's excellent article about the coverage of this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/24/charlie-brooker-norway-mass-killings

Apologies if already posted.

robman60 · 25-07-2011 01:30AM

It's true that the media were WAY too quick to jump to conclusions. Insultingly quick.

I feel that as the tragedy becomes a court case, more and more people will begin to feel angry at the length of time it took police to reach the island. 90 minutes? The assailant could literally have killed most of the 600 people on the island in that length of time.

golgi · 25-07-2011 01:35AM

could it possibly be that difficult to get to this island, 90 minutes does seem excessive, helicopter ??

PseudoFamous · 25-07-2011 01:39AM

robman60 wrote: »

It's true that the media were WAY too quick to jump to conclusions. Insultingly quick

The media weren't the only ones. If a bomb went off in Dublin, the first two I would blame are the IRA and Al Qaeda. No joke. I will happily admit my prejudice, because it keeps me alive. If I didn't have it, I'd probably be dead now, simply by believing the best in everyone. Everyone has prejudices, like it or not, and in many cases, they're pretty rational to have.

Sardonicat · 25-07-2011 01:40AM

I think it was more of a question of who was immediatley available to go to the island. They needed a swat team. I can't imagine that Norway is swarming with members of the special forces.

Turtwig · 25-07-2011 01:42AM

golgi wrote: »

could it possibly be that difficult to get to this island, 90 minutes does seem excessive, helicopter ??

Landing a Helicopter on a tiny island with people running everywhere paniced and bullets flying everywhere is far from a convenient landing. Special Forces or Swat would be necessity and even then it wouldn't be easy.

Cianos · 25-07-2011 01:47AM

PseudoFamous wrote: »

The media weren't the only ones. If a bomb went off in Dublin, the first two I would blame are the IRA and Al Qaeda. No joke. I will happily admit my prejudice, because it keeps me alive. If I didn't have it, I'd probably be dead now, simply by believing the best in everyone. Everyone has prejudices, like it or not, and in many cases, they're pretty rational to have.

I agree. But it's also of benefit to realise that some fears are irrational, and do more harm than good.

Killer Pigeon · 25-07-2011 01:53AM

PseudoFamous wrote: »

The media weren't the only ones. If a bomb went off in Dublin, the first two I would blame are the IRA and Al Qaeda. No joke. I will happily admit my prejudice, because it keeps me alive. If I didn't have it, I'd probably be dead now, simply by believing the best in everyone. Everyone has prejudices, like it or not, and in many cases, they're pretty rational to have.

Well in fairness. Don't you think that a loyalist paramilitary group would be more likely to bomb a city in the Republic than the IRA. After all, the UVF were the ones behind the 1974 Dublin bombings. I would suspect either a loyalist group or Al-Qaeda if Dublin was bombed tomorrow.

Killer Pigeon · 25-07-2011 02:03AM

profitius wrote: »

After 2 days its all even more confusing. His metapedia page looks intersting.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

It's all a bit of a mindfuck alright. I would suspect that perhaps he was a nut.

AhSureTisGrand · 25-07-2011 02:06AM

For those who don't know, Metapedia is a thinly veiled neo-Nazi propaganda site

Pretty_Pistol · 25-07-2011 02:13AM

The picture of the gunman standing at the shoreline surrounded by bodies with a teen further out holding his hand up as if to say don't shoot is so upsetting. If that was taken by the police helicopter I don't get why they didn't take him out. Using snipers or whatever.

Chuck Stone · 25-07-2011 02:27AM

PseudoFamous wrote: »

I will happily admit my prejudice, because it keeps me alive. If I didn't have it, I'd probably be dead now, simply by believing the best in everyone. Everyone has prejudices, like it or not, and in many cases, they're pretty rational to have.

This is true and refreshingly honest.

I guess what people are a little annoyed by are the poor standards of journalism and news casting.

Turtwig · 25-07-2011 02:28AM

Pretty_Pistol wrote: »

The picture of the gunman standing at the shoreline surrounded by bodies with a teen further out holding his hand up as if to say don't shoot is so upsetting. If that was taken by the police helicopter I don't get why they didn't take him out. Using snipers or whatever.

He surrendered, so you can't shoot him.

CiaranMT · 25-07-2011 02:33AM

robman60 wrote: »

It's true that the media were WAY too quick to jump to conclusions. Insultingly quick.

I feel that as the tragedy becomes a court case, more and more people will begin to feel angry at the length of time it took police to reach the island. 90 minutes? The assailant could literally have killed most of the 600 people on the island in that length of time.

As I understand it, he was shooting for 90 minutes, so the police took a shorter period of time to get there.

jill_valentine · 25-07-2011 03:19AM

PseudoFamous wrote: »

The media weren't the only ones. If a bomb went off in Dublin, the first two I would blame are the IRA and Al Qaeda. No joke. I will happily admit my prejudice, because it keeps me alive. If I didn't have it, I'd probably be dead now, simply by believing the best in everyone. Everyone has prejudices, like it or not, and in many cases, they're pretty rational to have.

Such prejudices are a natural instinctive leftover that's often useful.

But the problem is that in this case and many others, the media has been actively encouraging and manipulating such preconceptions for the sake of a "sexy" narrative that suits their audience. So you end up with a public willing to believe in the big bad Muslim bogeyman, buying stories about it from a press willing to create one, and some very bad men more than willing to play the part. So there's a terrible feedback loop that's only amplified out of proportion until it completely severs anchor with reality.

Believe it or not, something like 95% of terrorist attacks in Europe are committed by individuals or groups without any affiliation to Islamic groups or ideologies whatsoever. The figure for the US is only a little lower as far as I remember, although I don't have it to hand.

But the perception is much, much greater; both because the media finds that narrative much easier to sell, and because the small number of Islamic extremist groups that are out there tend to be cannier PR men than they are killers. They talk the talk far better and louder than they generally walk the walk.

https://www.europol.europa.eu/sites/default/files/publications/tesat2009_0.pdf

Separatist groups like ETA kill far more people and cause far more damage, far more regularly; but domestic terrorism, done for complicated reasons we can't always recognise, is far less interesting to a viewer than the bigger idea of the creeping international SPECTRE organisation.

Our gut reactions are only natural, definitely; but they lend themselves all too well to being artificially skewed.

Lapin · 25-07-2011 03:19AM

Just noticed that the film "If" is being shown on RTÉ 1 at the moment.

The final scene in the movie is a bit too chilling given what happenned in Norway this week.

Perhaps RTÉ could have reconsidered ?

Manic Moran · 25-07-2011 03:21AM

Pretty_Pistol wrote: »

The picture of the gunman standing at the shoreline surrounded by bodies with a teen further out holding his hand up as if to say don't shoot is so upsetting. If that was taken by the police helicopter I don't get why they didn't take him out. Using snipers or whatever.

For starters police helicopters tend to be equipped and roled as observers, not gunships. Secondly, the crew are armed with nothing bigger than a sidearm. Thirdly, shooting from a helicopter is bloody difficult, it's not exactly a stable firing platform. And fourthly, that picture would have been released very quickly for a police helicopter, usually they'd retain it under wraps until the trial.

NTM

Pompey Magnus · 25-07-2011 03:33AM

Lapin wrote: »

Just noticed that the film "If" is being shown on RTÉ 1 at the moment.

The final scene in the movie is a bit too chilling given what happenned in Norway this week.

Perhaps RTÉ could have reconsidered ?

Its not the first time RTE have let something similar happen. I remember at the time of the tsunami in Japan they had two sperate ads on their website, one was for surfing lessons featuring a guy riding a wave and the other I think was a rugby ad featuring a large wave approaching the west coast.

Manic Moran · 25-07-2011 06:54AM

I just bought Modern Warfare 2, the game. It is probably the best military simulator out there"

I guess it's too late to tell him that VBS-2 is the military FPS of choice? (Including the Norwegian Army)

NTM

sdanseo · 25-07-2011 07:00AM

Lapin wrote: »

Just noticed that the film "If" is being shown on RTÉ 1 at the moment.

The final scene in the movie is a bit too chilling given what happenned in Norway this week.

Perhaps RTÉ could have reconsidered ?

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Its not the first time RTE have let something similar happen. I remember at the time of the tsunami in Japan they had two sperate ads on their website, one was for surfing lessons featuring a guy riding a wave and the other I think was a rugby ad featuring a large wave approaching the west coast.

If, *insert god-like religious symbol* forbid, something similar ever happened here, then you'd both be totally right.

But this happened on the other side of Europe. While we are shocked and upset by it, I don't think it should dictate our TV schedules nearly 3 days later. If people don't find a scene watchable, they can turn it off. As for the website ads - tenuous connections much? A minor faux pas, perhaps, nothing of more meaning than that for me.

Moomoo1 · 25-07-2011 08:35AM

Pretty_Pistol wrote: »

The picture of the gunman standing at the shoreline surrounded by bodies with a teen further out holding his hand up as if to say don't shoot is so upsetting. If that was taken by the police helicopter I don't get why they didn't take him out. Using snipers or whatever.

it was one of the news channel helicopters who took that. And it was when police already landed on the other side of the island.

AeoNGriM · 25-07-2011 08:42AM

Lapin wrote: »

Just noticed that the film "If" is being shown on RTÉ 1 at the moment.

The final scene in the movie is a bit too chilling given what happenned in Norway this week.

Perhaps RTÉ could have reconsidered ?

Because Norwegians watch RTE yeah? Utter nonsense :rolleyes:

Moomoo1 · 25-07-2011 08:42AM

PseudoFamous wrote: »

The media weren't the only ones. If a bomb went off in Dublin, the first two I would blame are the IRA and Al Qaeda. No joke. I will happily admit my prejudice, because it keeps me alive. If I didn't have it, I'd probably be dead now, simply by believing the best in everyone. Everyone has prejudices, like it or not, and in many cases, they're pretty rational to have.

how does a prejudice against particular ethnic groups keep you alive exactly?

Moomoo1 · 25-07-2011 08:49AM

profitius wrote: »

After 2 days its all even more confusing. His metapedia page looks intersting.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

hopefully Breivik and his ilk will realise that you cannot kill ideas by killing people.

25-07-2011 09:18AM

Lapin wrote: »

Just noticed that the film "If" is being shown on RTÉ 1 at the moment.

The final scene in the movie is a bit too chilling given what happenned in Norway this week.

Perhaps RTÉ could have reconsidered ?

Worse if it was Battle Royale.

Oslo bombed

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