Justify a 400k salary

batistuta9 · 20-07-2011 05:55PM

goingpostal wrote: »

Also, last November, the FAI announced a lot of redundancies among their staff, a month before Xmas (nice timing). People who helped to promote and co-ordinate the game of soccer at the level that most of us live, were axed, while Delaney continues to earn the combined salary of the CEO's of the GAA and the IRFU, both sports that generate more revenue that soccer in this country. What I would like to know is, how many of those important FAI support jobs could have been saved, if Delaney had taken a 75% pay-cut and Trapatoni had been replaced by one of the more-than-competent League of Ireland managers that this country possesses?

you cannot be serious about that.
i agree you about trying to support the game at local level though

goingpostal · 20-07-2011 06:35PM

batistuta9 wrote: »

you cannot be serious about that.
i agree you about trying to support the game at local level though

I am. I know that if Trap was replaced with a LOI manager, it would be a pretty big step-down in the calibre of manager. But it would also be a huge step-down in the amount of money paid for the national team manager. And even with Trap as manager, ROI didn't qualify for last years world cup and are just as likely to not make Euro 2012. The best manager in the world isn't going to turn the current ROI squad into world-beaters. Regardless of the manager, the squad is quite mediocre by international standards and will be lucky to qualify for any tournament in the foreseeable future. I think that it is time that ROI stopped deluding themselves and stopped pretending that paying the second highest salary (only England pay their national manager more) in the world to their national team manager is going to turn us into a world-class team. Time to cut our cloth according to our coat, methinks, and spend the limited resources we have more productively, by investing in the local level of the game.

saa · 20-07-2011 06:47PM

That much money can only warp a person.

kippy · 20-07-2011 07:01PM

kraggy wrote: »

The Government give the FAI money.

In fairness, theres not many "thems" that the government don't subsidise in some way so that's a dangerous gate to open.

That being said, his salary is well out of touch with reality.

batistuta9 · 20-07-2011 07:24PM

goingpostal wrote: »

I am. I know that if Trap was replaced with a LOI manager, it would be a pretty big step-down in the calibre of manager. But it would also be a huge step-down in the amount of money paid for the national team manager. And even with Trap as manager, ROI didn't qualify for last years world cup and are just as likely to not make Euro 2012. The best manager in the world isn't going to turn the current ROI squad into world-beaters.

yes it would save money but i don't think it would do anything for the national team. Your right Trap or anyone else wont turn Ireland into world beaters but they are capable of turning them into a team with a realistic chance of qualifying for tournaments. LOI managers would be way out of their depth at international level with a country that expects to be more than whipping boys

goingpostal wrote: »

Regardless of the manager, the squad is quite mediocre by international standards and will be lucky to qualify for any tournament in the foreseeable future. I think that it is time that ROI stopped deluding themselves and stopped pretending that paying the second highest salary (only England pay their national manager more) in the world to their national team manager is going to turn us into a world-class team. Time to cut our cloth according to our coat, methinks, and spend the limited resources we have more productively, by investing in the local level of the game.

From euro 2016 onwards the competition will feature 24 teams instead of 16 so i expect Ireland to be at the euro's every time, i don't think they should go looking for a manager just because he's cheap and the players/national team aren't worth it(good enough) but they should be trying to get someone who can get the best out of them, qualify for tournaments. what they offer to pay him is a different story, same with england.
yeah the should definitely invest more in youth/grass routes level it would be the only way the country will produce better players.

goingpostal · 20-07-2011 07:29PM

sugarman wrote: »

The Fai dont even even pay half of Traps salary. Your man Denis O'Brien pays the majority.

Thanks for reminding me of that particularly iniquitous deal.

Getting a proven, documented crook who succeeded in undermining the functioning of our so-called democracy and got away scot free with his looted billions, to pay half of Traps wages, is another low-point for the FAI. Even if the FAI are only paying half, which I think is the proportion they pay, that is still close to a million euro, that could be used more productively. Objectively, Trap has achieved no more than Brian Kerr so far, and less than Mick McCarthy.

Teyla Emmagan · 20-07-2011 07:34PM

I think they said on Off The Ball recently that John Delaney was the highest paid of all the national FA heads.

whoopdedoo · 20-07-2011 07:42PM

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I think they said on Off The Ball recently that John Delaney was the highest paid of all the national FA heads.

for fcuk sake! /\

goingpostal · 20-07-2011 07:44PM

batistuta9 wrote: »

.... 1) LOI managers would be way out of their depth at international level with a country that expects to be more than whipping boys

2) From euro 2016 onwards the competition will feature 24 teams instead of 16 so i expect Ireland to be at the euro's every time, i don't think they should go looking for a manager just because he's cheap and the players/national team aren't worth it(good enough) but they should be trying to get someone who can get the best out of them, qualify for tournaments. what they offer to pay him is a different story, same with england.
yeah the should definitely invest more in youth/grass routes level it would be the only way the country will produce better players.

1) I think that argument is trotted out routinely to justify paying huge wages to big-name managers. I can think of at least half-a-dozen LOI managers who would have done a better job than Steve Staunton for less money than him. The basics of organising and motivating a team are the same at all levels of the game. A manager can either do it or he can't. Any prima-donna millionaire Irish player who doesn't have the professionalism to respect his manager because of the managers background should be dropped from the squad. I don't believe that many of them would automatically disrespect a LOI manager anyway. I don't think that Brian Kerr was totally out of his depth. He did an OK job. He didn't set the world alight, admittedly, but he certainly didn't disgrace himself either. I guess my basic point is that from now on, paying close to 2million euro per year to a national team manager and 400k to a CEO is totally unrealistic, and our country will have to choose between paying huge money for marquee managers or investing in the grassroots. We can't have both.

2) I think that increasing the amount of teams in the Euro's to 24 will probably ensure that we have a much better chance of qualifying. It will also greatly dilute the quality of the tournament. There were only 8 teams in the Euro's as recently as 1992. If we do qualify, we will probably be only making up the numbers. I think the Irish team is reverting to its historical norm, a few quality players and a lot of journeymen making up the numbers. The Jack Charlton era was an aberration and a lost opportunity, in terms of the quality of football we could have played with those players.

Witchie · 20-07-2011 07:54PM

stovelid wrote: »

If I had a 400k, it would be grand.

Anybody else that has one is a cunt.

On a serious note: the salary of John Delaney is certainly in poor taste seeing as the prize money for winning the League of Ireland premier division has been slashed by nearly 300% in the last 3 seasons.

This is what kills me along with the fact that he picks and chooses which teams to donate 5k to every so often, Drogheda (he bought shares in them and dont see how that is legal) and Sligo (for their ground improvements) is very unfair.

Sickening also to think that the FAI Club Promotions Officer programme which was of such benefit to clubs helping them work better in their communities has died due to lack of funding. Approximately €180000 a year was used to subsidies these roles but that is gone now.

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Teams have to pay for medals and officials accommodation/food for the league cup as well don't they?

Yup, we had to fork out for them reducing our prize money/gate take on the night.

saa wrote: »

That much money can only warp a person.

Much as it pains me to say it he is actually a very personable man and a pleasure to deal with.

Mr. Denton · 20-07-2011 11:27PM

goingpostal wrote: »

The Jack Charlton era was an aberration and a lost opportunity, in terms of the quality of football we could have played with those players.

In fairness the 'aberation' of players Charlton had were nearly all there under Eoin Hand too. For instance, 9 of the 11 that Charlton picked for the famous Euro 88 win over England were available to Hand also. Hand tried letting these guys play football and the result was a bunch of moral victories, 'nearly' stories and an eventual whimpering failure.

Charlton got more out of those players than he had any right to. It's nice to think they would have done even better playing attractive quality football but the proven fact is they wouldn't have done so. Probably wouldn't even have qualified, just like before.

Same thing is going on with this current team. Let them play football and we'll be back to getting Staunton type results again.

That_Guy · 20-07-2011 11:32PM

And we haven't even started talking about Joe Duffy yet. :pac:

Heads will roll.

Hank_Jones · 20-07-2011 11:36PM

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I think they said on Off The Ball recently that John Delaney was the highest paid of all the national FA heads.

Apparently Chief Executive of the FA, Adam Crozier gets £400,000.

So, I would think the chairman/vice chairman of the FA are most likely getting more than that.

Daily Fail Link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-44260/Football-Croziers-100-000-pay-rise--bonus-again.html

Zebra3 · 20-07-2011 11:44PM

Mr. Denton wrote: »

In fairness the 'aberation' of players Charlton had were nearly all there under Eoin Hand too. For instance, 9 of the 11 that Charlton picked for the famous Euro 88 win over England were available to Hand also. Hand tried letting these guys play football and the result was a bunch of moral victories, 'nearly' stories and an eventual whimpering failure.

Charlton got more out of those players than he had any right to. It's nice to think they would have done even better playing attractive quality football but the proven fact is they wouldn't have done so. Probably wouldn't even have qualified, just like before.

Very unfair.

Ireland's qualification group for Spain82 saw Ireland miss out on qualification by goal difference to France. Belgium topped the group. Both sides made it to the semis in Spain. Holland (beaten finalists at the WC in 1974 and 1978) finished below Hand's side.

For Italia90, Ireland finished second to Spain ahead of a washed up NI and a fading Hungary.

Anyway to get back on topic, I suggest people read this:
http://www.thedubliner.ie/the_dubliner_magazine/2007/04/own_goal.html

Mr. Denton · 20-07-2011 11:55PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Very unfair.

Ireland's qualification group for Spain82 saw Ireland miss out on qualification by goal difference to France. Belgium topped the group. Both sides made it to the semis in Spain. Holland (beaten finalists at the WC in 1974 and 1978) finished below Hand's side.

Wrong world Cup. Belgium got to the semi's in 86 not 82. In fact the 86 semi-final team that Belgium had were the one that Charlton pipped for 1st place in 1988 so you should be pointing the kudos his way for dealing with tough opposition.

As for Holland you're talking about a team that didn't even qualify for anything between 1980-1988. They're not the team they are to today or even the team of Cruyff.

Zebra3 · 20-07-2011 11:57PM

sugarman wrote: »

I think hes worth every penny tbh. He's a proven manager & has won more than anyone else ever has.

He took us to the Brink of World Cup Qualification in 09, if it was'nt for the French handball. By taking us into the playoff he done more than Brian Kerr ever did. We came 3rd place in both 04 & 06 qualification under Kerr.

& It took Mick McCarthy 6 years over 4 qualifications to get us to a finals. Fair enough, he got us to a play off every time but still.

While the 2006 qualifiers were obviously a failure, Kerr only took over the 2004 qualifiers after we'd already lost to Switzerland at home and Russia away.

McCarthy got us to the WC in 2002 in his third campaign.

But hey, why bother dealing with facts. :rolleyes:

As it stands, Trap doesn't go to watch his players play for their clubs and he's achieved nothing that hasn't been done already.

And as for the handball in France, well it was still level when it happened. There was no guarantee Ireland would go on and win the game.

Mr. Denton · 21-07-2011 12:02AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

While the 2006 qualifiers were obviously a failure, Kerr only took over the 2004 qualifiers after we'd already lost to Switzerland at home and Russia away.

In fairness, despite those two losses Ireland qualification was always in their own hands. Kerr failed to take advantage of the opportunity and his own results in the returns games v Russia/Swiss demonstrated that he probably wouldn't have got any better results had he been in charge for the first two games also.

Zebra3 · 21-07-2011 12:04AM

Mr. Denton wrote: »

Wrong world Cup. Belgium got to the semi's in 86 not 82. In fact the 86 semi-final team that Belgium had were the one that Charlton pipped for 1st place in 1988 so you should be pointing the kudos his way for dealing with tough opposition.

As for Holland you're talking about a team that didn't even qualify for anything between 1980-1988. They're not the team they are to today or even the team of Cruyff.

Apols,

you are correct on Belgium, but they were still a strong side who did after all defeat the world champions in the opening game of Espana82.

DAM et al.

Holland were far from a spent force in the '82 qualifiers. Remember only seven sides got through the qualification process for the Euros in 1980 (plus the host).

And I'm well aware of the fantastic achievement in making it to Euro88, but just showing how different things were in being the first Ireland manager qualifying for the biggie.

Zebra3 · 21-07-2011 12:07AM

Mr. Denton wrote: »

In fairness, despite those two losses Ireland qualification was always in their own hands. Kerr failed to take advantage of the opportunity and his own results in the returns games v Russia/Swiss demonstrated that he probably wouldn't have got any better results had he been in charge for the first two games also.

Well Ireland drew the games v Russia and the Swiss under Kerr and lost them under McCarthy. So he did actually get better results.

Mr. Denton · 21-07-2011 12:10AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Well Ireland drew the games v Russia and the Swiss under Kerr and lost them under McCarthy. So he did actually get better results.

Playing Russia in Dublin is a lot easier than playing them in Moscow.

Zebra3 · 21-07-2011 12:25AM

Think we need to get back on topic.

I'd be happy to discuss the on field issues raised here in the football section. (It's listed under "Soccer").

goingpostal · 21-07-2011 12:33AM

I think the fact that we can debate the relative merits and achievements of Kerr and Trapatoni, without a huge chasm being demonstrated, proves my point that a LOI manager could do his job for a far smaller salary. I would far rather see an FAI that spends the bulk of its diminishing resources on facilities and personnel who can help the kids and teenagers and local players at the base of the footballing pyramid, rather than giving huge salaries to the two guys at the pinnacle of the pyramid, while the rest of the game is being progressively starved of resources. FAI stands for Football Association of IRELAND, afterall. Ah, I am amazed by my own naivety at times.

goingpostal · 21-07-2011 01:39AM

sugarman wrote: »

I do agree with you tho, the only reason why we even have a league is because its required to play International football... FAI dont give a toss about it as long as its going .

That is true. I never thought of that. I respect Trapattoni, I think he is a legend of the game, I just don't think he is a magician. I wish the FAI would support the junior and local game more. It deserves more respect and would benefit hugely from smart investment. I feel very little affinity with the millionaire footballers and manager of the national team anymore. They don't live in the same world as I do.

LETHAL LADY · 21-07-2011 01:40AM

It just so happens I earn 5 million billion a year.

Gavin "shels" · 21-07-2011 04:21AM

Carter P Fly wrote: »

meh, Job was offered at 400k, he put his name forward and got it, fair dues to him.

Google Joe Delaney FAI, read the first link. John didn't just put his name forward, his Dad was also in the FAI and a corrupt f*ck he was!

Rubik. · 21-07-2011 05:28AM

Someone in this photo has got the right idea...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/5079807882_8328edfee3.jpg

Zebra3 · 21-07-2011 02:11PM

Rubik. wrote: »

Someone in this photo has got the right idea...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/5079807882_8328edfee3.jpg

That's brilliant.

kippy · 21-07-2011 02:19PM

For some reason the guy reminds me of Brian Cowen in certain aspects.

cosmicfart · 21-07-2011 09:52PM

The FAI should be done away with, international soccer is a joke, Irish people watch the premiership and GAA, the FAI is nothing more than a what u call them... Quango, simples.

JimiWonderDoor 92 · 21-07-2011 10:04PM

kippy wrote: »

For some reason the guy reminds me of Brian Cowen in certain aspects.

I know, I know.

Animal Magnetism baby

Justify a 400k salary

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