College: Should taxpayers continue to foot the bill?

Richard Hillman · 17-07-2011 12:28PM

Gary4279 wrote: »

Well i'm against FAS, needs to be gotten rid off. WTF is the point in paying someone €200 a week to teach them how to use Microsoft Office. Stupid organisation, with 90% of its qualifications being useless and laughed at. It's only use is training people in trades that were once useful like carpentry ect...

I agree most of it is pointless but im behind the idea of the whole organisation. It just needs to be drastically revamped.

Haelium · 17-07-2011 12:31PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

collage is private education that pick and choose who they allow to study in them.

Yeah, they pick the smart people, that way we don't waste time teaching the average punter about quantum mechanics.

We can't afford to give everybody a third level education, so we have a points system, it's far from perfect and there are big changes that should be made to it. But it's still a **** load better than a system where those born into wealth can go to college and the rest of us can go **** ourselves.

Ask yourself seriously, does everybody deserve to go to college?

MagicMarker · 17-07-2011 12:31PM

Gary4279 wrote: »

Also, you do get a say. You vote for our government. If you have a problem with it then go to your TD and strike it up, don't post on boards moaning about something you DO have control over. Believe it or not, you live in a democracy.

So if I go to my TD I can change the salaries of lecturers across the country? Do I have that ''control''?

Your view of a democratic society seems rather naive tbh.

Richard Hillman · 17-07-2011 12:33PM

Haelium wrote: »

Yeah, they pick the smart people, that way we don't waste time teaching the average punter about quantum mechanics.

We can't afford to give everybody a third level education, so we have a points system, it's far from perfect and there are big changes that should be made to it. But it's still a **** load better than a system where those born into wealth can go to college and the rest of us can go **** ourselves.

Ask yourself seriously, does everybody deserve to go to college?

Everyone deserves what they pay for.

Haelium · 17-07-2011 12:40PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Everyone deserves what they pay for.

Even if it means that the most intelligent in society end up being held back by a system that has to cater for everyone? The cost of paying for everybody to do a third level course would be massive, and if we made people pay for it themselves, then it would just be a case of who has rich parents and who doesn't.

And everybody does have a chance to go to college, so the majority of the time(Excluding dyslexics, etc), they either weren't smart enough, or didn't work hard enough.

Again, it's not a perfect system, but it's the best one available.

Richard Hillman · 17-07-2011 12:49PM

Haelium wrote: »

Even if it means that the most intelligent in society end up being held back by a system that has to cater for everyone? The cost of paying for everybody to do a third level course would be massive, and if we made people pay for it themselves, then it would just be a case of who has rich parents and who doesn't.

And everybody does have a chance to go to college, so the majority of the time(Excluding dyslexics, etc), they either weren't smart enough, or didn't work hard enough.

Again, it's not a perfect system, but it's the best one available.

I dont think that everyone should just automatically go to college but i feel that those who didnt shouldnt have to pay for others. College is an option people can take. I agree with the system of extra tax for those who did go to college after they graduated or dropped out to fund them.

Slightly disappointed that people are lording it over me because i wasnt able to go to college as well

Haelium · 17-07-2011 12:52PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I dont think that everyone should just automatically go to college but i feel that those who didnt shouldnt have to pay for others. College is an option people can take. I agree with the system of extra tax for those who did go to college after they graduated or dropped out to fund them.

Slightly disappointed that people are lording it over me because i wasnt able to go to college as well

People who went to college generally earn more, and thus pay more in taxes anyway.

Richard Hillman · 17-07-2011 12:56PM

Haelium wrote: »

People who went to college generally earn more, and thus pay more in taxes anyway.

Very true but i think an extra percentage should be added on to fund their past college education. Im also against a higher tax rate for high earners btw. I think everyone should be on a flat rate with collage graduates paying a slightly higher tax rate for a period of a few years after they graduated.

Haelium · 17-07-2011 01:07PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Very true but i think an extra percentage should be added on to fund their past college education. Im also against a higher tax rate for high earners btw. I think everyone should be on a flat rate with collage graduates paying a slightly higher tax rate for a period of a few years after they graduated.

Well then let's apply this to other services. I don't have a driving license, so why should I have to pay for roads to be build when I don't drive a car? What if I was illiterate, should I have to pay for public libraries?

Richard Hillman · 17-07-2011 01:13PM

Haelium wrote: »

Well then let's apply this to other services. I don't have a driving license, so why should I have to pay for roads to be build when I don't drive a car? What if I was illiterate, should I have to pay for public libraries?

Unless you have a helicopter, im sure you use the roads and footpaths in some shape or form and you can use any public road or footpath you want. Public libraries are open for anyone to use. You dont have to pass a test for the use of them. Plus libraries have much more than just reading material in them.

Haelium · 17-07-2011 01:22PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Unless you have a helicopter, im sure you use the roads and footpaths in some shape or form and you can use any public road or footpath you want. Public libraries are open for anyone to use. You dont have to pass a test for the use of them. Plus libraries have much more than just reading material in them.

But I don't need footpaths, why should I have to pay for them? And I have to pass a test to drive a car, it's unfair, only people who drive cars should have to pay for them.

Dionysus · 17-07-2011 01:26PM

Naikon wrote: »

Why should the taxpayer have fund everything from Nuclear Physics to Women studies at TIT College?

Guess who's finished a third-level education funded by the taxpayer...

Richard Hillman · 17-07-2011 01:28PM

Haelium wrote: »

But I don't need footpaths, why should I have to pay for them? And I have to pass a test to drive a car, it's unfair, only people who drive cars should have to pay for them.

How to you get around if you dont use footpaths or the roads. Do you use the bus or cycle or do you have a jetpack

Haelium · 17-07-2011 01:31PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

How to you get around if you dont use footpaths or the roads. Do you use the bus or cycle or do you have a jetpack

I walk, footpaths are only there to keep people off the roads, which are reserved for drivers, who should have to pay extra tax for the roads under your logic. As clearly one can only benefit from something directly.

Logical Fallacy · 17-07-2011 01:31PM

Naikon wrote: »

If you think education only comes in nicely integrated rigid course structures, you are fooling yourself. Self Education isn't promoted enough. This is why I like IT - You don't keep up, you're fcuked!

I tend not to associate my own educational goals with my college stamp of approval. College is merely a means to an end as far as I am concerned.

Well right now it's a means to an end with a pretty heavy backing from the vast majority of employers.

To be honest, i realise you really dislike the education system at all levels but i think you are letting your stance blind you to the facts.

Richard Hillman · 17-07-2011 01:35PM

Haelium wrote: »

I walk, footpaths are only there to keep people off the roads, which are reserved for drivers, who should have to pay extra tax for the roads under your logic. As clearly one can only benefit from something directly.

They pay car tax.

Haelium · 17-07-2011 01:41PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

They pay car tax.

And people who went to college pay income tax.

MagicMarker · 17-07-2011 01:42PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

They pay car tax.

Do you think only funds raised from car tax pays for our roads?

Richard Hillman · 17-07-2011 01:44PM

Haelium wrote: »

And people who went to college pay income tax.

Everyone pays income tax for the general running of the country A college is a private organisation and when im in charge you will be paying a seperate tax to fund your privileged college educations

Wolfe Tone · 17-07-2011 01:45PM

I'm in college, its not a "soft course". If fees are brought back I'll have to drop out.

byhookorbycrook · 17-07-2011 01:45PM

Considering that far more students attend primary school than go to 3rd level, I'd prefer to see better funding for early start programmes, DEIS schools and resources for children with special needs.

Richard Hillman · 17-07-2011 01:45PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Do you think only funds raised from car tax pays for our roads?

No but everybody uses the roads in some shape or form. I dont believe for one second that the poster NEVER EVER uses the roads somehow.

flahavaj · 17-07-2011 01:47PM

galwayrush wrote: »

Yes, it would be terrible if thick kids from wealthy backgrounds could claim college places in place of more intelligent kids from poorer backgrounds.

Ridiculous comment, the entry requirements would still weed out the thick people, regardless of whether there were fes or not.

I think we should pay for college fees however, the benefit to society gained from graduates would pay it back many times over.

MagicMarker · 17-07-2011 01:50PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

No but everybody uses the roads in some shape or form. I dont believe for one second that the poster NEVER EVER uses the roads somehow.

I'm a man, should my taxes be put towards healthcare for women? I'm never gonna have cervical cancer, why should I contribute to their treatment?

Richard Hillman · 17-07-2011 01:56PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

I'm a man, should my taxes be put towards healthcare for women? I'm never gonna have cervical cancer, why should I contribute to their treatment?

Women have parts men dont and vice versa. It evens itself out. I believe in private healthcare anyway. With people that cant afford it having to pay the money back in installments. The elderly would be exempt from this due the fine contributions they have brought to the country.

We are going MILES off the point of private college educations btw.

srsly78 · 17-07-2011 02:05PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

I'm a man, should my taxes be put towards healthcare for women? I'm never gonna have cervical cancer, why should I contribute to their treatment?

Pretty sure you came out of a woman, thus it's important to make sure their bits work :pac:

desertcircus · 17-07-2011 02:07PM

flahavaj wrote: »

Ridiculous comment, the entry requirements would still weed out the thick people, regardless of whether there were fes or not.

I think we should pay for college fees however, the benefit to society gained from graduates would pay it back many times over.

Not ridiculous in the slightest. Let's assume there are a hundred places on medical courses in Ireland, and ten thousand people applying for those places - so only the top 1% of that ten thousand gets a place. Then we introduce fees, and four thousand decide they can't afford the fees. Of the remaining six thousand, a hundred are still offered places - forty of who would never have been allowed to enter medicine except for the fact that some of their smarter peers were discouraged from applying by the cost of the degree.

Replicate this at every level, for every course, and the average intelligence of the student population drops as smart but poor kids opt out of applying for college.

theboss80 · 17-07-2011 02:16PM

Your argument doesn't really ADD up to be honest. People are selected to enter 3rd level education courses ,which require a minimum aptitude level for the course material, based on their academic achievements in 2nd level.

You have a chip on your shoulder because you were not good enough at maths. Stop whinging about it and go and correct it then you can apply next year.

And btw colleges are not private. I wasn't a genius at school when I went but I did pass my LC and then ten years later when my trade was no longer in demand and jobs were gone I applied for college and am now about to start my 3rd year.

MagicMarker · 17-07-2011 02:20PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Women have parts men dont and vice versa. It evens itself out. I believe in private healthcare anyway. With people that cant afford it having to pay the money back in installments. The elderly would be exempt from this due the fine contributions they have brought to the country.

We are going MILES off the point of private college educations btw.

So because men and women have parts specific to them it balances itself out? What about paraplegics and non paraplegics? Or blind people and non blind people? Diabetics and non diabetics? Epileptics and non epileptics? Dyslexics and non dyslexics? Down syndrome sufferers and non down syndrome sufferers? Bipolar people and non bi polar people? Aspergers sufferers and non aspergers sufferers? Parkinsons and non parkinsons? Alzheimer's and non Alzheimer's?

Do you see where I'm going with this? Not everything balances out, this is why everyone's taxes fall into the same pool and then dished out where it's needed the most. This is also why what you're suggesting is utterly retarded.

Richard Hillman · 17-07-2011 02:26PM

theboss80 wrote: »

Your argument doesn't really ADD up to be honest. People are selected to enter 3rd level education courses ,which require a minimum aptitude level for the course material, based on their academic achievements in 2nd level.

You have a chip on your shoulder because you were not good enough at maths. Stop whinging about it and go and correct it then you can apply next year.

And btw colleges are not private. I wasn't a genius at school when I went but I did pass my LC and then ten years later when my trade was no longer in demand and jobs were gone I applied for college and am now about to start my 3rd year.

Very lazy debating. You dont have a clue what i do for a living or if i even wanted to go to college. Very disappointing and lazy.

And colleges are private. They are closed to a large section of the public. They are like a country club or a members club. They are open to people they see suitable to be a student to their college. I fully agree and back them with their stance as well but they shouldnt be funded by the public if they do have that stance. The only people who should pay for their private educations should be the people who availed of their services, who shall pay with their future earnings.

College: Should taxpayers continue to foot the bill?

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