Catholic Church claims it is above the law

Amhran Nua · 17-07-2011 12:52AM

philologos wrote: »

Amhran Nua: I'm not saying that nobody should hold them to account here. I'm saying that it is our responsibility to hold people to account for criminal offences.

After 600 odd posts I doubt even you know what you're saying any more except to somehow, some way, hold the line. The line is gone. Leave it, would be my advice.

crucamim wrote: »

And how do you intend to achieve that need?

Lets start with capital gains tax going back about 90 years and take it from there.

crucamim · 17-07-2011 01:17AM

BrianOFlanagan wrote: »

Everyone of us has the capacity to differentiate the truth from lies. The church and its lies will die slowly. We the people just need to cop on and stop listening to their babbling nonsense, without sheep there is no need for the shepherd.

Also why do they deserve a special position in the society of modern Ireland? Our pasts may be intertwined but the past is for history books. A modern society should treat all beliefs (or lack thereof) in the exact same way out of pure fairness and equality. The catholic church virus has seeped its way into everything that makes this country tick and look what has happened, where is the greater good in that?

If God exists then they have abandoned us.

With the exception of France, there is greater separation of Church and State in Eire than in any other country in Western Europe. If you do not like the Catholic Church, stay well away from it. And do not interfere with the right of Catholics to be Catholics.

crucamim · 17-07-2011 01:19AM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

After 600 odd posts I doubt even you know what you're saying any more except to somehow, some way, hold the line. The line is gone. Leave it, would be my advice.

Lets start with capital gains tax going back about 90 years and take it from there.

I thought that Capital Gains Tax had been introduced about 40 years ago.
Will your Capital Gains Tax be levied on the Protestant Churches?

Amhran Nua · 17-07-2011 01:20AM

crucamim wrote: »

And do not interfere with the right of Catholics to be Catholics.

They can be catholics all the live long day. As soon as they decide to become child molesters however, they will receive the punishment due to them, which is less than many feel they might be due.

Amhran Nua · 17-07-2011 01:24AM

crucamim wrote: »

I thought that Capital Gains Tax had been introduced about 40 years ago.
Will your Capital Gains Tax be levied on the Protestant Churches?

Quite right, we need to apply commercial rates and stamp duty for the period as well. I believe that CGT was running at 40% not so long ago? As for protestant churches, that depends on how much tax they have paid in the interim.

But of course, it takes a special kind of mind to paint an attempt to stop child rape as a sectarian attack.

Mickeroo · 17-07-2011 01:32AM

philologos wrote: »

Ultimately yes as far as I see it given that if God exists He would know the outcome of any given election in advance.

Wait so he interferes with political elections but couldn't be bothered to make sure child mincing pedophiles don't get ordained as priests. Now i get it.

crucamim · 17-07-2011 01:39AM

dvpower wrote: »

we need mandatory reporting - we still can't trust the organisation to do the right thing. And its hard to see proper reform coming along when the head of the organisation is himself personally culpable.

All complaints about criminal behaviour by a Catholic priest, or by anyone else, should be made to the police. They should investigate it on behalf of the State. The police have a duty to investigate crime.

The Catholic Church should not be required to report crime. Nor should anyone else. All this talk about mandatory reporting of complaints about sexual abuse smacks of window-dressing. When we see the culprits being brought to trial, convicted and punished, we can then believe the government ministers. If they are really interested in protecting children from sex abuse, they would reinstate the death penalty.

crucamim · 17-07-2011 01:42AM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Quite right, we need to apply commercial rates and stamp duty for the period as well. I believe that CGT was running at 40% not so long ago? As for protestant churches, that depends on how much tax they have paid in the interim.

But of course, it takes a special kind of mind to paint an attempt to stop child rape as a sectarian attack.

How would collecting Capital Gains Tax stop child rape? I suspect that you are trying to use the sexual abuse scandal to steal schools from Catholics and put defenceless Catholic children into the clutches of anti-Catholic teachers.

Have the Protestant Churches paid any tax?

crucamim · 17-07-2011 01:44AM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

They can be catholics all the live long day. As soon as they decide to become child molesters however, they will receive the punishment due to them, which is less than many feel they might be due.

I have no trouble agreeing with that.

gsxr1 · 17-07-2011 01:44AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

The Catholic Church is an organisation that has overseen the rape and torture of Irish children.

Any other organisation to have done so would have been declared illegal and had its assets seized. :mad:

Where does that leave the true Catholic people who only want to do good? There are Millions........
I hate this horrible situation. These few perverts. The teachings of OUR church are good. Follow them and you may well have a better life
Comforting in times of need. When you come to your final years in this world, are you going to read your prayers or read boards?
These people who have destroyed faith should be got rid off. Its like an Irish semi state company the way they are protected.

I T DOES NOT REFLECT ON THE NORMAL CHURCH GOING CATHOLIC WHO SIMPLY LOVES GOD....

Tehachapi · 17-07-2011 01:49AM

gsxr1 wrote: »

When you come to your final years in this world, are you going to read your prayers or read boards?

This is a whole other topic but anyway - I think I'd rather read boards tbh, than waste time praying to an imaginary ghost in the sky. Maybe if I was in advanced stages of dementia or schizophrenia I might try this "praying" idea.

Mickeroo · 17-07-2011 01:50AM

crucamim wrote: »

The Catholic Church should not be required to report crime. Nor should anyone else. All this talk about mandatory reporting of complaints about sexual abuse smacks of window-dressing. When we see the culprits being brought to trial, convicted and punished, we can then believe the government ministers. If they are really interested in protecting children from sex abuse, they would reinstate the death penalty.

Eh, it's everyone's civic duty, scratch that, moral duty to report crimes as serious as what's being discussed if they hear of or witnes them being committed. If they don't then that makes them as bad as the perpetrators in question. If you really think that a person should not be required to report an instance of a child being raped then you really need to look at yourself.

Dyr · 17-07-2011 02:19AM

crucamim wrote: »

Have the Protestant Churches paid any tax?

I'm not sure, have the protestant churches raped any kids or told their clergy to break the law? We should probably give them some sort of tax credits if they have'nt

Also, the accurate term would not be "catholic child" but a child with catholic parents.

gsxr1 · 17-07-2011 02:20AM

Tehachapi wrote: »

This is a whole other topic but anyway - I think I'd rather read boards tbh, than waste time praying to an imaginary ghost in the sky. Maybe if I was in advanced stages of dementia or schizophrenia I might try this "praying" idea.

It is a whole(current) topic. But if you chose to read boards over The Meaning of it all.

Then Good Luck. I hope for my sake you are badly wrong. Either way. I will disappear from this world hoping for the best instead of dreading and the worst.

But thats just me. AND maybe a billion others. Im far from there yet, a young man. But I do have faith. I pity those without. Most people will turn to God at some stage in life.. If I was you, i would not curse it so. Life is long.
An old man with much more wisdom than you that you know(i presume) has turned to God.

And im sure he/she was not suffering from

Tehachapi wrote: »

dementia or schizophrenia

Tehachapi · 17-07-2011 02:26AM

gsxr1 wrote: »

It is a whole(current) topic. But if you chose to read boards over The Meaning of it all.

Then Good Luck. I hope for my sake you are badly wrong. Either way. I will disappear from this world hoping for the best instead of dreading and the worst.

But thats just me. AND maybe a billion others. Im far from there yet, a young man. But I do have faith. I pity those without. Most people will turn to God at some stage in life.. If I was you, i would not curse it so. Life is long.
An old man with much more wisdom than you that you know(i presume) has turned to God.

And im sure he/she was not suffering from

How patronizing. I can safely say with 100% certainty that I have more "wisdom" than anyone on this planet who believes in that delusional nonsense.

1 billion people eh? If you are trying to use that as an argument for christian beliefs, I could argue that leaves 5 billion people who don't believe your nonsense.

gsxr1 · 17-07-2011 03:06AM

Tehachapi wrote: »

How patronizing. I can safely say with 100% certainty that I have more "wisdom" than anyone on this planet who believes in that delusional nonsense.

1 billion people eh? If you are trying to use that as an argument for christian beliefs, I could argue that leaves 5 billion people who don't believe your nonsense.

WHAT! How patronizing????????? YOU just referred to me and every other catholic as

Tehachapi wrote: »

someone in advanced stages of dementia or schizophrenia

Maybe when you insult lots of people (not just me) you should choose your words.

I am not a sexual predictor. I do love God. I am a Christian .

Whats your BEEF with that. Patronizing??

Not directed at Tehachapi

I am very much aware of the cover ups and nastyness that exists within the so called priests. Buts this does not reflect on the people who follow their own religion.

The criminals that have all but destroyed our church should have their nuts cut off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 17-07-2011 03:12AM

thegreengoblin wrote: »

A spokesman for the Catholic bishops said the “seal of Confession places an onerous responsibility on the confessor/priest, and a breach of it would be a serious offence to the rights of penitents”.

The rights of those admitting to molesting a child? The church, holds the rights of a serious offender, higher than those of the victim...

He pointed approvingly to remarks made yesterday by Fr PJ Madden of the Association of Catholic Priests, who said the seal of the Confession was above the law of the land.

GTFO of my country you disgusting, unlawful and obnoxious organisation, your ignorance has festered long enough. The catholic church is a degenerate base which needs to be cleansed from this earth. I hope to see it's demise in my lifetime.

Da Shins Kelly · 17-07-2011 03:22AM

This is as much a problem of the State's as it is the Church. The State should not have allowed the Church to have such a stranglehold for so long, and go basically unsupervised in their running of schools, etc. However, it's good to see Enda Kenny taking a powerful line with this, I just hope he sticks to his guns. All these people need to be held accountable, and we shouldn't stop until the Catholic Church takes responsibility. It's digging its own grave anyway with it's dismissive reaction to these scandals, but they should face the repercussions. I will not set foot in a church again over this (I haven't in years anyway), but I am refusing to go to any communions, confirmations, weddings or christenings that are held in a Church. The organisation is rotten to the core, it needs a serious clean-out from the top down. I have no problem with people who believe in God, and maybe follow Catholic traditions in their own lives, but swearing any allegiance to that church is beyond incomprehensible to me. I just can't believe that there are people who still go to Mass every Sunday and give their money to that organisation. It's about time people stopped treating them as though they are all our moral superiors. At this moment in time, they haven't a leg to stand on.

Tehachapi · 17-07-2011 03:25AM

gsxr1 wrote: »

WHAT! How patronizing????????? YOU just referred to me and every other catholic as

I did no such thing. Read my post again. I said the only circumstances leading up to that I personally would ever believe someone in the sky is listening to thoughts in my head (i.e. while praying) is if I was in the advanced stages of dementia/schizophrenia. I stand by what I said.

gsxr1 · 17-07-2011 03:30AM

Tehachapi wrote: »

I did no such thing. Read my post again. I said the only circumstances leading up to that I personally would ever believe someone in the sky is listening to thoughts in my head (i.e. while praying) is if I was in the advanced stages of dementia/schizophrenia. I stand by what I said.

:rolleyes:

charlemont · 17-07-2011 03:51AM

Im sure some of ye are gone to bed now seeing as ye have mass in the morning.:p

The whole church needs restructuring, We are not isolated islanders anymore, A wealth of information is out there regarding religion. God will judge us on our deeds not our beliefs.

crucamim · 17-07-2011 04:29AM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

The State should not have allowed the Church to have such a stranglehold for so long, and go basically unsupervised in their running of schools, etc.

The Catholic Church controls only those schools which it owns. Likewise the Protestant Churches. Anyone who does not like how a Catholic schools is managed has a simple remedy - i.e. do not send his children to a Catholic school.

P.S. I was not aware that the Catholic Church controlling its own schools was an important factor in the sex abause scandal.

Tehachapi · 17-07-2011 05:23AM

crucamim wrote: »

The Catholic Church controls only those schools which it owns. Likewise the Protestant Churches. Anyone who does not like how a Catholic schools is managed has a simple remedy - i.e. do not send his children to a Catholic school.

It's really not that simple when around 90% of them are catholic schools.

crucamim · 17-07-2011 06:05AM

Tehachapi wrote: »

It's really not that simple when around 90% of them are catholic schools.

Yes, it is that simple. Catholic schools did not fall from heaven. Nor did Protestant schools. Committed Catholics built Catholic schools. Just as committed Protestants built Protestant schools. Those who do not like Catholic schools and who live in a locality in which there is no non-Catholic school, can establish schools to suit their purposes. The level of State support for new schools is much more generous than it was at the time most of the Catholic and Protestant schools were established.

I see no reason why the Catholic Church should lose control over the schools which it owns just because there are some people who do not like Catholic schools.

zenno · 17-07-2011 08:08AM

the catholic church's reign is over and their satellite is falling. about time imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaygNJS1m-8

ShadowGal · 17-07-2011 08:30AM

dvpower wrote: »

This is double speak - they church did wrong, yet the church is not to blame.

If the church covered up the abuse isn't the church itself sick?

I dont think its double speak at all. We all know the church did wrong with all of their cover ups, but the church didnt turn people into pedophiles, well i dont believe they did anyways.

I know lots of men and women who cant go out and just hook up with someone and havent done in a long time, they didnt wake up one morning and start abusing children because of it. The church harbored them and covered it up in the most sickening way, i just believe these guys were interested in kids before that. So ya, they're all sick

philologos · 17-07-2011 10:01AM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

After 600 odd posts I doubt even you know what you're saying any more except to somehow, some way, hold the line. The line is gone. Leave it, would be my advice.

Have you been even reading my posts in this thread? :pac:
Prosecutions should take place now. That's my line.

Freddie59 · 17-07-2011 10:14AM

Tehachapi wrote: »

I did no such thing. Read my post again. I said the only circumstances leading up to that I personally would ever believe someone in the sky is listening to thoughts in my head (i.e. while praying) is if I was in the advanced stages of dementia/schizophrenia. I stand by what I said.

You, quite obviously, have no concept of the meaning of deep faith - and have never experienced it. As I've said previously, you are not then in a position to comment or ridicule (either directly or by innuendo as your reply highlights). This faith, held dear by me and billions of others of all faiths, is an unbreakable bond. And will remain so for millenia to come.

As a previous poster has said, the perpetrators should be castrated (for starters). NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE.

Freddie59 · 17-07-2011 10:16AM

Tehachapi wrote: »

It's really not that simple when around 90% of them are catholic schools.

Yes it is. As Crucamin has pointed out, Catholic parishioners built their schools from the ground up - at a time when there was no State support and they were practically viewed (like many Irish) as subhuman.

If someone wants to do something, then get off their ass and stop looking for the easy way out-or for fall guys.

Freddie59 · 17-07-2011 10:17AM

Tehachapi wrote: »

How patronizing. I can safely say with 100% certainty that I have more "wisdom" than anyone on this planet who believes in that delusional nonsense.

1 billion people eh? If you are trying to use that as an argument for christian beliefs, I could argue that leaves 5 billion people who don't believe your nonsense.

Delusional nonsense? Hmmm. You appear to be a quite angry chap, for whatever reason. And choose not to believe in God. Makes me wonder are you missing something in your life.......

On a side note, I watched a parent who had systematically tortured her own children be give the equivalent of 4 years in jail for it during the week. (24 year sentence - last SIXTEEN years suspended, and she'll only serve around half). Are we really displaying any kind of deterrent here?

Finally, the facts of that case were truly horrific - beyond comprehension. But does this make ALL parents monsters like this?

Catholic Church claims it is above the law

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