A protest that allows for no excuses?

Inverse to the power of one! · 15-07-2011 07:11PM #1

Just a question to ask from the "enough" protest thread.

Would it be possible to arrange a politically neutral protest organised by an independent group (Boardsies even :eek:) such that the entire population could attend without the usual "don't want to be seen with that crowd" excuse?

It's fair to say that the majority of the population feels some grievance with how the nation is run, how little change there is, as well as dissatisfaction with differing interests within the country.

Anyway to channel this to show that people do care and are willing to take action to initiate change?

AhSureTisGrand · 15-07-2011 08:45PM

Inverse to the power of one! wrote: »

Would it be possible to arrange a politically neutral protest

How does this work? Are we all gonna hold up banners reading, "WE HAVE NO OPINION ON THIS MATTER"?

Inverse to the power of one! · 15-07-2011 09:18PM

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

How does this work? Are we all gonna hold up banners reading, "WE HAVE NO OPINION ON THIS MATTER"?

Down with that sort of thing!

Put it down as a misphrase, I should have said organised by a politically neutral party.

Liam Byrne · 15-07-2011 09:26PM

How are you going to keep the usual rent-a-crowd troublemakers away, though ?

nesf · 15-07-2011 09:27PM

I think you mean something like what's going on in Spain at the moment: http://www.economist.com/node/18959259

Can't really see that happening here, too many people remember the 80s and how tightening the belts and getting down to fixing the fiscal issues worked over the medium term.

COYW · 15-07-2011 09:33PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

How are you going to keep the usual rent-a-crowd troublemakers away, though ?

I think most of the protests so far have passed off peacefully but you can't have a neutral protest. Public protests are like the funeral circuit for the hard-left politicians in this country.

Liam Byrne · 15-07-2011 09:36PM

COYW wrote: »

I think most of the protests so far have passed off peacefully but you can't have a neutral protest. Public protests are like the funeral circuit for the hard-left politicians in this country.

Not looking or asking for a neutral protest.

Just looking for one that doesn't involve chucking or ducking bricks.

Denerick · 15-07-2011 09:58PM

My placard will be this:

'I don't know the answers, none of us know the answers, but lets march around and feel like 'we're doing something' for a couple of hours'.

Inverse to the power of one! · 15-07-2011 10:12PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

How are you going to keep the usual rent-a-crowd troublemakers away, though ?

F**K EM!

They are not going to deprive the rest of us of our democratic rights. Also, we do pay the Guards money we don't have to do this work don't we?

My placard will be this:

'I don't know the answers, none of us know the answers, but lets march around and feel like 'we're doing something' for a couple of hours'.

Good for you!

As pointless as you think it is, it'll still be more then is being done now. Also, protests give people a voice and further confidence to stand up for what they believe in as opposed to just another day thinking it's pointless and they are alone in their outrage.

FG/LB haven't got the message, they think it's business as usual and only the public can send the message that it's not. Care to do something more then moan about it?

nesf · 15-07-2011 11:10PM

Inverse to the power of one! wrote: »

FG/LB haven't got the message, they think it's business as usual and only the public can send the message that it's not. Care to do something more then moan about it?

What's the message though? Can you think of a single solution to a major problem facing us that FG/Lab are dodging that most of us would agree on? The best I can come up with is an anti-Croke Park march demanding major reform of the public sector but would that really get people out onto the streets?

BlaasForRafa · 16-07-2011 12:47AM

nesf wrote: »

What's the message though? Can you think of a single solution to a major problem facing us that FG/Lab are dodging that most of us would agree on? The best I can come up with is an anti-Croke Park march demanding major reform of the public sector but would that really get people out onto the streets?

The thing is, the people that are most fed up of public service workers are the people at work in the private sector and they wouldn't be able to get time off work to attend the protest...whereas ps workers seem to be able to down tools at will to attend these things.

Inverse to the power of one! · 16-07-2011 11:10AM

nesf wrote: »

What's the message though? Can you think of a single solution to a major problem facing us that FG/Lab are dodging that most of us would agree on? The best I can come up with is an anti-Croke Park march demanding major reform of the public sector but would that really get people out onto the streets?

The message is what ever the people want to bring to it, the majority would likely protest cuts and the governments lack of action, but you would be welcome to protest against Croke-Park. I'm just looking for a way for people to get over the usual excuses and just do something for a change.

Apathy is not an acceptable alternative, if it is, then we are truly for the toilet.

al28283 · 16-07-2011 11:22AM

Sounds neither practical nor useful.

nesf · 16-07-2011 02:37PM

Inverse to the power of one! wrote: »

The message is what ever the people want to bring to it, the majority would likely protest cuts and the governments lack of action, but you would be welcome to protest against Croke-Park. I'm just looking for a way for people to get over the usual excuses and just do something for a change.

Apathy is not an acceptable alternative, if it is, then we are truly for the toilet.

Eh what use is a march where one side is saying "LESS CUTS!" and the other "MORE CUTS!" to us?

The Waltzing Consumer · 16-07-2011 05:41PM

Inverse to the power of one! wrote: »

The message is what ever the people want to bring to it, the majority would likely protest cuts and the governments lack of action, but you would be welcome to protest against Croke-Park. I'm just looking for a way for people to get over the usual excuses and just do something for a change.

Apathy is not an acceptable alternative, if it is, then we are truly for the toilet.

You do know we had an election this year, in February. No offense but I really hate this " I'm just looking for a way for people to get over the usual excuses and just do something for a change" sort of stuff. People had their democratic right to change things, they did that, only six months ago. They did something for a change, they voted!!! That's the change, just cause you may not like it, does not mean it is illegitimate or undemocratic.

Apathy should not be acceptable, but what is worse is people thinking they are superior and ignoring the actual democratic process that occurred, six months ago!!!

jhegarty · 16-07-2011 06:23PM

Inverse to the power of one! wrote: »

As pointless as you think it is, it'll still be more then is being done now. Also, protests give people a voice and further confidence to stand up for what they believe in as opposed to just another day thinking it's pointless and they are alone in their outrage.

FG/LB haven't got the message, they think it's business as usual and only the public can send the message that it's not. Care to do something more then moan about it?

But what's the change you want ?

A protest has to have an objective.

Inverse to the power of one! · 16-07-2011 06:54PM

jhegarty wrote: »

But what's the change you want ?

This point and the others made in a similar vein I do concede. But none the less, we are still left in a position where protests with a valid point are invalidated by the people organizing them. We can't have all protests invalidated just because organisation x whom we disagree with is the organizer.

You do know we had an election this year, in February. No offense but I really hate this " I'm just looking for a way for people to get over the usual excuses and just do something for a change" sort of stuff. People had their democratic right to change things, they did that, only six months ago. They did something for a change, they voted!!! That's the change, just cause you may not like it, does not mean it is illegitimate or undemocratic.

Apathy should not be acceptable, but what is worse is people thinking they are superior and ignoring the actual democratic process that occurred, six months ago!!!

You can look at this one in a number of ways, you can say that the people got what they voted for and deserve it........or you can say the people voted for what they thought would be getting and the service delivered has not been as promised.

Should we just apply Caveat emptor across the board and resend all legislation to do with false advertising and refunds?

Governments only respond to mass public outcry, this has been reflected in the British governments response to the Phone hacking and Expenses scandals.......This does not happen in Ireland!

By protest or any other means, I feel we should change this....call me crazy....

Cavehill Red · 16-07-2011 06:56PM

nesf wrote: »

What's the message though? Can you think of a single solution to a major problem facing us that FG/Lab are dodging that most of us would agree on? The best I can come up with is an anti-Croke Park march demanding major reform of the public sector but would that really get people out onto the streets?

Er, default on the bank guarantee and renege on repaying debt that this state did not accrue.

al28283 · 16-07-2011 07:00PM

Inverse to the power of one! wrote: »

we are still left in a position where protests with a valid point are invalidated by the people organizing them.

So you'd rather protests with no point and no organisation? It doesn't seem like you've thought this out very well. I don't think I'll attend this protest

Inverse to the power of one! · 16-07-2011 07:10PM

al28283 wrote: »

So you'd rather protests with no point......

This point and the others made in a similar vein I do concede. But none the less, we are still left in a position where protests with a valid point are invalidated by the people organizing them. We can't have all protests invalidated just because organisation x whom we disagree with is the organizer

As said, I'm more interested in a way to get around the current impasse that let's people give in to apathy for the sake of who happens to be organizing said protests. Basically if we could stop all the usual suspects monopolizing popular protest we'd be all the better for it imo.

Or is it you only want Eirigi and the Unions to have the streets to themselves?

al28283 · 16-07-2011 07:16PM

Inverse to the power of one! wrote: »

Or is it you only want Eirigi and the Unions to have the streets to themselves?

What? Where did you get that idea? I mentioned neither Eirigi or any Unions.

hatrickpatrick · 16-07-2011 07:28PM

Guilt by association is one of the most ridiculous concepts in the world.
I got slapped with this so often during the Lisbon campaign it actually made me ridiculously angry.
"Oh, you're voting no? So then you're a Shinner / BNP supporter / racist / communist then? Those are the no campaigners after all..."

So yeah I completely agree this needs to happen. ANYTHING if it will convince Irish people to get off their arses and do something about the state of our country, rather than just b*tching about it but taking no action to oppose or correct it.

al28283 · 16-07-2011 07:51PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

So yeah I completely agree this needs to happen. ANYTHING if it will convince Irish people to get off their arses and do something about the state of our country, rather than just b*tching about it but taking no action to oppose or correct it.

WHAT needs to happen? Oppose or Correct what? What exactly is it you have a problem with? The state of the country? You cannot rally a large amount of people to protest on the streets about something you can't even verbalise.

Dannyboy83 · 16-07-2011 07:57PM

nesf wrote: »

The best I can come up with is an anti-Croke Park march demanding major reform of the public sector but would that really get people out onto the streets?

IMO, That wouldn't work because it's too abstract.
And a lot of Irish people are not willing to be publicly seen to tackle the runaway public service expenditure, hence the success of places like boards.ie

Privately, I'm sure plenty of Irish people have strong opinions on the issue, if FG's near majority was anything to go by.
Publicly - they'd prefer not to air them.

The crux is, the general public are totally ignorant that Fine Gael have already abandoned their plans to reform the public sector and our runaway expenditure.
FG have their little PR exercises running.

The planned tax increases are usually whittled down to mere individual arguments such as property tax - taxes which a lot of people believe wouldn't impact them directly, but might impact their smug landlord/schadenfreude ..........why do we have no Irish word for such a common Irish trait?, lol

And the general public usually can't understand the bigger picture (I seriously doubt I would have been able to understand it either, if I hadn't learned so much from this forum over the last 3 years)

If you want to get people out on the streets, you would have to have a feature on the 6 o clock news and Prime Time and Joe Duffy, showing that Fine Gael plan to increase the tax revenue by 33% i.e. €10 billion by 2015, and show how all these taxes will directly impact various people in various categories.

Of course, we can't do that, because FG refuse to release information on how they plan to do it - assuming they have a plan. Irish politicians are too sly to give away a sensationalist headline like that. They'll just do it in dribs and drabs. Keep increasing the temperature slowly so they frogs don't notice they are being boiled alive.

tl;dr version
I believe the only way you will get the general Irish public to actually protest on the streets, is to show them specifically how they are going to be hit in the pocket themselves over the next 4 years, otherwise, aside from not understanding what is happening/going to happen, they are content to let other people protest for them.

al28283 · 16-07-2011 08:02PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

If you want to get people out on the streets, you would have to have a feature on the 6 o clock news and Prime Time and Joe Duffy, showing that Fine Gael plan to increase the tax revenue by 33% i.e. €10 billion by 2015, and show how all these taxes will directly impact various people in various categories.

That doesn't sound politically neutral at all

Dannyboy83 · 16-07-2011 08:04PM

al28283 wrote: »

WHAT needs to happen? Oppose or Correct what?

Briefly,
The Net Current Expenditure figure in this chart, needs to go down by 10 billion over the next 4 years, rather than the Net Current Revenue figure in this chart, increasing by 10 billion over the next 4 years.

al28283 · 16-07-2011 08:06PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Briefly,
The Net Current Expenditure figure in this chart, needs to go down by 10 billion over the next 4 years, rather than the Net Current Revenue figure in this chart, increasing by 10 billion over the next 4 years.

So you have a problem with the financial state of the country. That's a reasonable thing to protest about

Dannyboy83 · 16-07-2011 08:12PM

al28283 wrote: »

So you have a problem with the financial state of the country. That's a reasonable thing to protest about

Not a problem with the financial state of the country.
Complaining that I don't like cancer doesn't make it go away, you need the correct treatment.

More specifically; I have a problem with the method being undertaken to correct the financial state of the country.
And I believe a lot more people would, if our media actually sought to inform them of the proposed method.

al28283 · 16-07-2011 08:18PM

So this politically neutral protest would really be an anti-FG protest?

Dannyboy83 · 16-07-2011 08:23PM

al28283 wrote: »

So this politically neutral protest would really be an anti-FG protest?

Anti-FG?

No, I voted for FG. I don't have a problem with FG.
I have a problem with the fact that they lied and claimed they would reform public expenditure, when the evidence proves the policy they are pursuing will not see current expenditure shrink over the next 4 years.

I'm not anti-FG.
I'm anti-ULA, but I didn't vote for them.

al28283 · 16-07-2011 08:39PM

OK. The OP is looking for a way to organise a neutral protest, not associated with any particular interest group in the hope that it will encourage more people to protest.
This is not possible. You can't just motivate people to get out on the streets demanding some non-specific changes be made.
To get people out on to the streets in force you need an issue to protest.
It can be schools, hospitals, spending cuts, tax increases, Croke park even off licence opening hours and wheelie bins or any and all of the above. As soon as you attach an issue to this protest it is no longer neutral, it's either for or against and the parties and interest groups et al will not stay away and keep quiet about it.

A protest that allows for no excuses?

Comments