has anyone here ever seen a funeral of a suicide casualty?

dsmythy · 14-07-2011 02:04AM

stupidusername wrote: »

For all those who think of it as selfish, how about you think about it from this point of view:

if someone close to you is dying of terminal illness, and decides that they want to end their life on their own terms, how many of you would try to stop them? how many would think that's being selfish?

mental illness can be the same life sentence. the pain is different, and the life is different, but what's not different is the quality of life for the person involved. if a person really feels like they can't live anymore, why would you think that you know better?

Depression is not a terminal illness.

policarp · 14-07-2011 02:32AM

CorkMan wrote: »

I remember just over 11 years ago my 1st cousin hung himself. I wasn't able to attend the funeral as I was released from hospital during it but I saw the burial. My cousin's Mother and Girlfriend where on their knees on the ground when the casket was being lowered, crying out.

Has anyone else been to this type of funeral?

Very inapropriate for After Hours.
I think.

stupidusername · 14-07-2011 08:28AM

dsmythy wrote: »

Depression is not a terminal illness.

It can be

Micky Dolenz · 14-07-2011 08:37AM

policarp wrote: »

Very inapropriate for After Hours.
I think.

Why?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 14-07-2011 08:50AM

I have my own feelings on suicide being an "selfish & mean" act or not, but people are usually entrenched in their views on the matter and I won't try change that.

I've been to many, many funerals of friends, and one family member who have died by suicide.

If I was given the chance to say something to them before their death I'd have told each and every one of them how much they're loved and cherished by their family and friends and to please try to talk/communicate with us for just one more day because in that day they'll never do anything more harmful & destructive than they're about to do to themselves & those around them.

Don't know how to finish this one.

R.I.P. to those who've died by suicide & to those who are suffering its consequences I hope you all find strength and the answers to your questions - I did with one suicide, but the answers to the rest still leave me dumb founded.

Cork Lass · 14-07-2011 08:59AM

I've read this thread with interest. I have been to the funeral of a person who committed suicide (a cousin in his 20's) and do think it's a bit different in that you know people are asking questions like "why" and "how could he do that to his family". It's a tragic situation for all and whilst I agree that it never solves anything and that, in fact, it makes things worse for those left behind to deal with it - we have to realise that people who commit suicide must be in a place so dark that they can't see even a glimpse of light. Selfish - maybe, I don't know the answer to that but tragic - definitely. We should all learn from the amount of suicides happening in Ireland and learn to not just listen but to hear our children, siblings, friends etc.

Guill · 14-07-2011 09:08AM

CorkMan wrote: »

I remember just over 11 years ago my 1st cousin hung himself. I wasn't able to attend the funeral as I was released from hospital during it but I saw the burial. My cousin's Mother and Girlfriend where on their knees on the ground when the casket was being lowered, crying out.

Has anyone else been to this type of funeral?

Too many times...

Each person had their own reasons for what they did. The devastation left behind is terrible. Family and friends are never the same.

Its always good to talk when your down and please give support to someone if they need it.

RachaelVO · 14-07-2011 09:26AM

policarp wrote: »

Very inapropriate for After Hours.
I think.

Suicide prevention, raising the god awful subject is not inappropriate in anyway! If one person stumbles on this thread and can see what devastation they will leave behind, and they see a glimmer of hope, this thread and the posts in it will be worth their weight in gold!

It should never be off limits to discuss suicide and its effects on those left behind.

Feeona · 14-07-2011 09:47AM

Agent Oso wrote: »

I have to agree it is a totally selfish act. I am speaking from my own experience, as a stupid 19 year old who thought the world was ending I attempted it and came through the other side and got the help I need after much reflection I think it was a cry for help. My parents and friends slowly but surely made sure I knew what I was about to put them through and in the end they came out and told me they couldn’t believe I was so selfish. Unfortunately I have been to 2 such funerals in the past year and I curl up so bad at the thought this may have been the same situation for my family, It eats at me for days but thankfully I have learned to open my big gob and do something to help myself!

flutterflye wrote: »

Yes I have.

Just on the issue of the use of words like "selfish" etc...
I have suffered from depression more often than not in my lifetime.
I have felt extremely suicidal many, many times.
I have spent far too much time planning and dreaming of death.
Not death so much as just nothingness.

Anyway, I guarentee that I would be long gone by now if not for a family member once ranting at me how utterly selfish it is to commit suicide, that it's grand for you - you're dead, but your family and friends have to live forever with the pain you have caused.

That really struck a chord with me.
And I am so glad that it did.
I have since brought two lives into the world who would never have otherwise been.

Depression is an illness.
In many cases it's a lifelong battle, and will always be present under the surface.
But you learn how to prevent it, how to fight it, and how to feel and live again.

It really is never worth it.
And if you don't care about yourself enough to fight it, hopefully you care enough about those left to pick up the pieces after you're gone.

These two posts have been virtually ignored. Two people who contemplated suicide. After they recovered they were told/realised they were selfish (but of course some people seem to think that they were told that while they were in the depths of depression :rolleyes:).

It takes guts to face up to something like depression, it takes guts to look at yourself and find wanting, it takes guts to hear/realise that you're selfish. It's hard yes, but the alternative is ruining the lives of those around you.

Too many times the needs of the suicidal take precedence over the needs of family and friends. As evidenced by the response to Orando Broom's post. It seems it's ok to ruin the lives of those around you, but it's not ok for a family member or a friend to say to someone 'FFS, stop being so selfish'. I think that's fairly f*cking skewed, excuse my language.

Sometimes a kick up the arse is needed. Sometimes it works. Two people are alive because of the realisation that maybe they were being selfish. I think that's infinitley better than the alternative.

Thank you Agent Oso and flutterflye for sharing your experiences.

NomdePlume · 14-07-2011 10:17AM

Feeona wrote: »

These two posts have been virtually ignored. Two people who contemplated suicide. After they recovered they were told/realised they were selfish (but of course some people seem to think that they were told that while they were in the depths of depression :rolleyes:).

It takes guts to face up to something like depression, it takes guts to look at yourself and find wanting, it takes guts to hear/realise that you're selfish. It's hard yes, but the alternative is ruining the lives of those around you.

Too many times the needs of the suicidal take precedence over the needs of family and friends. As evidenced by the response to Orando Broom's post. It seems it's ok to ruin the lives of those around you, but it's not ok for a family member or a friend to say to someone 'FFS, stop being so selfish'. I think that's fairly f*cking skewed, excuse my language.

Sometimes a kick up the arse is needed. Sometimes it works. Two people are alive because of the realisation that maybe they were being selfish. I think that's infinitley better than the alternative.

Thank you Agent Oso and flutterflye for sharing your experiences.

So we wait for our suicidal friend to recover a little; to get past their suicidal episode on their own, and then we hit them with the "you're so selfish" BS?

And then we tell ourselves that we helped to prevent their suicide? Jesus wept.

Two people are alive because they saw a reason to live. Not because they got to add "selfish" to their already long list of perceived defects and failures.

Please, people. Please do not do this.

14-07-2011 10:20AM

Feeona wrote: »

It takes guts to face up to something like depression, it takes guts to look at yourself and find wanting, it takes guts to hear/realise that you're selfish. It's hard yes, but the alternative is ruining the lives of those around you.

Too many times the needs of the suicidal take precedence over the needs of family and friends. As evidenced by the response to Orando Broom's post. It seems it's ok to ruin the lives of those around you, but it's not ok for a family member or a friend to say to someone 'FFS, stop being so selfish'. I think that's fairly f*cking skewed, excuse my language.

Sometimes a kick up the arse is needed. Sometimes it works. Two people are alive because of the realisation that maybe they were being selfish. I think that's infinitley better than the alternative.

This is the most stupid fcuking advice I've ever heard in my life.
Jesus christ.

I sincerely hope none of you people gets someone suicidal looking for help from you

MrsMcSteamy · 14-07-2011 10:37AM

I have two sisters who have attempted suicide. One who has I believe recovered, for want of a better word, and her life has improved greatly these past few years.
My other sister, whilst improved, I believe in my heart she will attempt it again, she has this memory of being 6 and telling our dad that she was made to die young, and I think she truly believes this. She is still in counseling to try and help her deal with this issues but only god knows what might happen.

Anyways back on topic, unfortunately have had to attend some funerals in the past couple of years and they were middle aged women who had the appearance of having everything in life. Both women were sisters. Their family had a long history of depression.

The husband of the second sister, after the funeral was talking to me about his grief. He would walk down the hallway and see her photo on the table and give out to her for doing this and causing him all this hurt and pain However he said that if this is the pain he has to go through now so that her suffering has ended then he shall endure it.
And heartbreaking to hear, he said if he could have her back he wouldn't want her because she would still be locked in her world of pain and that would be the last thing he would want for her.

mrsbyrne · 14-07-2011 10:43AM

bluewolf wrote: »

This is the most stupid fcuking advice I've ever heard in my life.
Jesus christ.

I sincerely hope none of you people gets someone suicidal looking for help from you

Not only is it stupid advice its cruel and dangerous. So all depressed people need is a "kick up the arse"?!? How ignorant and condescending! Depression is a seriously debilitating illness, and there is an epidemic of it in this country at the moment. Unfortunately many people, like this poster, are determined to keep the terrible stigma firmly attached to it. For shame. :mad::mad:

wild_cat · 14-07-2011 10:43AM

Feeona wrote: »

These two posts have been virtually ignored. Two people who contemplated suicide. After they recovered they were told/realised they were selfish (but of course some people seem to think that they were told that while they were in the depths of depression :rolleyes:).

It takes guts to face up to something like depression, it takes guts to look at yourself and find wanting, it takes guts to hear/realise that you're selfish. It's hard yes, but the alternative is ruining the lives of those around you.

Too many times the needs of the suicidal take precedence over the needs of family and friends. As evidenced by the response to Orando Broom's post. It seems it's ok to ruin the lives of those around you, but it's not ok for a family member or a friend to say to someone 'FFS, stop being so selfish'. I think that's fairly f*cking skewed, excuse my language.

Sometimes a kick up the arse is needed. Sometimes it works. Two people are alive because of the realisation that maybe they were being selfish. I think that's infinitley better than the alternative.

As someone who has dealt with serious mental illness in the past...

You're a walking trigger. Don't ever say anything like that to anyone EVER. Also it might not be depression that a person is dealing with - A lot of Irish GP's misdiagnose mental illness and don't send clients anywhere near a psychiatrist . If you feel like you're evil and your just getting over something like a suicide attempt and someone comes out with that kind of tripe bets are you've put them back to square one.

14-07-2011 10:48AM

Next up: broken leg? Suck it up and stop being so whingey, walk it off :rolleyes:

Minstrel27 · 14-07-2011 10:52AM

Feeona wrote: »

It takes guts to face up to something like depression, it takes guts to look at yourself and find wanting, it takes guts to hear/realise that you're selfish. It's hard yes, but the alternative is ruining the lives of those around you.

Too many times the needs of the suicidal take precedence over the needs of family and friends. As evidenced by the response to Orando Broom's post. It seems it's ok to ruin the lives of those around you, but it's not ok for a family member or a friend to say to someone 'FFS, stop being so selfish'. I think that's fairly f*cking skewed, excuse my language.

Sometimes a kick up the arse is needed. Sometimes it works. Two people are alive because of the realisation that maybe they were being selfish. I think that's infinitley better than the alternative.

Jesus ****ing Christ. God help anyone that crosses your path in need of help.

Hannibal Smith · 14-07-2011 10:53AM

bluewolf wrote: »

This is the most stupid fcuking advice I've ever heard in my life.
Jesus christ.

I sincerely hope none of you people gets someone suicidal looking for help from you

I thought it was pretty spot on advice. If anyone's contemplating suicide because they think they've reached the end or saving others from you, you're not, you'll do far more damage to your friends and family by committing suicide.

Understanding why some-one might take their own lives is important and it's not as easy as pigeon holing them into the Selfish category, but the most important thing of all is to get the message across that doing it does not solve anything. If some one is suffering there are ways to get help. Stick at it. You've no idea what lies ahead for you and what you might miss out on.

LETHAL LADY · 14-07-2011 10:54AM

Two people very close to me have attempted suicide one by shotgun saved only by the fact that it went off whilst loading it and shot himself in the leg causing irrevocable nerve damage. The other by overdose. The absolute horror of what they did still haunts me to this day. People think it is a selfish act but from my experience it is just utter despair in the person. I am not religious but I do thank god every day that their attempts were unsuccessful.

wild_cat · 14-07-2011 11:08AM

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I thought it was pretty spot on advice. If anyone's contemplating suicide because they think they've reached the end or saving others from you, you're not, you'll do far more damage to your friends and family by committing suicide.

Understanding why some-one might take their own lives is important and it's not as easy as pigeon holing them into the Selfish category, but the most important thing of all is to get the message across that doing it does not solve anything. If some one is suffering there are ways to get help. Stick at it. You've no idea what lies ahead for you and what you might miss out on.

All it achieves is making someone feel like they're damned if they do.. or damned if they don't.

Hannibal Smith · 14-07-2011 11:33AM

wild_cat wrote: »

All it achieves is making someone feel like they're damned if they do.. or damned if they don't.

Well I suppose it depends on what you want to read from it. The poster quoted two people who posted in the thread who felt they had reached the end and how they came back from the brink. One even said 'I would be long gone by now if not for a family member once ranting at me how utterly selfish it is to commit suicide, that it's grand for you - you're dead, but your family and friends have to live forever with the pain you have caused' and from what I read, their point was that suicide is simply not the answer.

Each reason for wanting to commit suicide is different from the next, but so is each response to it. With grief comes anger, and having read the posts in this thread from people who have lost loved ones to suicide and who have reached a level of understanding and acceptance about it must be extremely difficult to come to those conclusions. I don't know how you would get your head around it and lets face it, the people who are left behind are the ones who are going to have to get their heads round it because the other person is gone.

Of course if some one comes to you and tells you they want to kill themselves you're not going to fly off the handle at them, all you want to do is try and stop them from taking that action. It's not a matter of passing judgment, it's just a matter of stopping some one from doing something that is as final as it can get.

RachaelVO · 14-07-2011 12:36PM

bluewolf wrote: »

This is the most stupid fcuking advice I've ever heard in my life.
Jesus christ.

I sincerely hope none of you people gets someone suicidal looking for help from you

Couldn't agree more! Suicide is a selfish act, but depression is a selfish bastard disease. It's treatments that need to be looked at. The generic treatment of stuffing people with depression with pills, and it a lot of instances the WRONG pill is just total BS.

My sister was suffering with depression, god knows how many times shes tried to kill herself. She has since recovered, and is thriving in her life, and loves every minute of it (thankfully). Her own doctor went away and she seen a locum, he went through her entire history with her. He said that the type of depression she had was made WORSE by the tablets prescribed to her at the time. That treatment of another kind was needed for her particular condition. He got her off the vicious cycle she was on and as I said, she is doing beautifully!

Mental Health Services need a huge rethink in Ireland, surely investing in services and treatments will not only save lives, but ultimately save money as people are diagnosed properly.

Sorry, just went a bit OT there, but it's something I feel very strongly about, which is probably whey I love Mickey Dolenz's thread with all the links to suicide prevention groups!

wild_cat · 14-07-2011 01:41PM

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Well I suppose it depends on what you want to read from it. The poster quoted two people who posted in the thread who felt they had reached the end and how they came back from the brink. One even said 'I would be long gone by now if not for a family member once ranting at me how utterly selfish it is to commit suicide, that it's grand for you - you're dead, but your family and friends have to live forever with the pain you have caused' and from what I read, their point was that suicide is simply not the answer.

Each reason for wanting to commit suicide is different from the next, but so is each response to it. With grief comes anger, and having read the posts in this thread from people who have lost loved ones to suicide and who have reached a level of understanding and acceptance about it must be extremely difficult to come to those conclusions. I don't know how you would get your head around it and lets face it, the people who are left behind are the ones who are going to have to get their heads round it because the other person is gone.

Of course if some one comes to you and tells you they want to kill themselves you're not going to fly off the handle at them, all you want to do is try and stop them from taking that action. It's not a matter of passing judgment, it's just a matter of stopping some one from doing something that is as final as it can get.

What if the person has survived the act and didn't plan on telling anyone? You actually, you seriously can't say anything of the sort to someone who has just been through that.

Hannibal Smith · 14-07-2011 01:54PM

wild_cat wrote: »

What if the person has survived the act and didn't plan on telling anyone? You actually, you seriously can't say anything of the sort to someone who has just been through that.

First of all, if that was the case, you wouldn't be able to open your mouth about anything in the world because you never know what the person beside you has been through.

Second of all, I didn't say what you could/would/should say, I quoted a post from another forum member who said those words worked for him/her and stopped them from doing something drastic.

Third of all, speaking subjectively, I would say whatever it blooming took to stop some one killing themselves, that doesn't mean I expect you, or anyone else to do the same thing.

jurahnimoh · 14-07-2011 01:59PM

I've been to one where the deceased persons ex wife was hysterical crying and wailing, wearing her old wedding and engagement ring, and the centre of everyone's attention for her "tragic loss". It made me sick though as when he was alive all she done was bad mouth him and wouldn't even knowledge his existence whenever their paths crossed

policarp · 14-07-2011 06:50PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Why?

With a lot of RIP threads in AH Mods. have to issue warnings to stop flippant and inapropriate posts.

RachaelVO wrote: »

Suicide prevention, raising the god awful subject is not inappropriate in anyway! If one person stumbles on this thread and can see what devastation they will leave behind, and they see a glimmer of hope, this thread and the posts in it will be worth their weight in gold!

It should never be off limits to discuss suicide and its effects on those left behind.

Point taken.

Dudess · 14-07-2011 07:14PM

hondasam wrote: »

I do feel people who commit suicide should have quieter funerals. It's not something to be glorified and it gives the wrong impression to other vulnerable people.

How in the name of jeebus does a big funeral glorify anything? How would you suggest a funeral be quieter? Are there such things as loud funerals? If you mean the crowd size: if a lot of people want to attend (and that often happens when a person takes their own life) they'll attend.

mgmt wrote: »

Suicide is a selfish mean act and to suggest otherwise is just glorifying it.

So to suggest suicide isn't selfish and mean and is actually an indication that the person was just in too much pain to carry on is... "glorifying" it? Really?

Someone used the terminal illness analogy and it was dismissed by a member of the "Suicide is selfish" brigade because it didn't suit their argument - it's a good analogy IMO. When people are in so much physical pain that they want to be euthanised, it's rarely if ever deemed selfish - "putting them out of their misery". Why does the same not apply to emotional pain? I'm not saying I think suicide is the answer - I wish to **** it didn't happen - but to want to die? That obviously means a person finds it an unbearable struggle to get through the day, let alone life... but instead of sympathy, "They're just selfish and weak"...? Unbelievable. Well not that unbelievable really...

Tehachapi · 14-07-2011 07:20PM

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

I am not religious but I do thank god every day that their attempts were unsuccessful.

You don't have to be religious to realise that someone still being alive is a good thing.

In fact- maybe if more suicide victims realised christianity is a load of bs nonsense they might think before going ahead with the decision to take their life.

RachaelVO · 14-07-2011 07:30PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Someone brought it up on the humanities thread on the subject, so I will link bill zeller's letter here as well:

http://pastebin.com/xjbFQJHx

I just took the time to read that, that's got to be the saddest letter I have ever read. That actually made me cry, I had tears rolling down my face reading that.

I have to admit though, I feel a bit of anger, not towards Bill Zeller, but to the fact that his life was let get so dark so very young. To the point where suicide was the only option he thought he had.

Tragic, truly very tragic!

hondasam · 14-07-2011 08:16PM

Dudess wrote: »

How in the name of jeebus does a big funeral glorify anything? How would you suggest a funeral be quieter? Are there such things as loud funerals? If you mean the crowd size: if a lot of people want to attend (and that often happens when a person takes their own life) they'll attend.

Not if it's a private funeral.

why do a lot of people attend the funeral of a person who takes their own life?

Marty McFly · 14-07-2011 08:24PM

hondasam wrote: »

Not if it's a private funeral.

why do a lot of people attend the funeral of a person who takes their own life?

To pay your respects, regardless of how someone dies therell be people who were close to them friends, family, work colleagues etc who will want to attend the funeral, you could say the family would ask for a quiet funeral but why would they want that? all anyone wants when a family member dies is to have the people who also loved and cared for them around them at that time for support, and a large funeral does give a feeling of warmth when you know the person was loved by so many and had an impact on all those lives.

Also the sad reason why so many sucide funerals do be so big is the fact there majority of people who commit suicide are young men who tend to have a large circle of friends at that age.

has anyone here ever seen a funeral of a suicide casualty?

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