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Young Travellers on Horses

24

Comments

  • #32
    _feedback_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,274 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Really? Are you really oblivious to the tone in the OP?

    I must be. What do you see that I am missing?


  • #33
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    few cans? wrote: »
    yet more problems. Its as if your saying 'ah sure baytin your children is something the travellers do so its not their fault if they grow up to be thugs'

    No Sir. I see the hitting of children as assault. Nothing less.
    i dont care if your a traveller or royalty this is simply not on. everyone bleeds the same way.

    Again, I agree with you that domestic violence is a terrible thing. No arguments there.


  • #34
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    elviscostello wrote: »
    I must be. What do you see that I am missing?

    If you were concerned about animal and child welfare, now really really concerned and you wanted to ask a legal question on the large and resourceful website that is boards.ie would you have approached it the same way? With the same emotive language? On AH?

    Now remember your concern is for animal welfare and child safety.

    Is this how you would go about educating yourself on these issues?

    On A.H.?

    C'mon man.


  • #35
    hatz7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭hatz7


    The horse and cart is how the travellers roll, best of luck to them, ye can't take them off the road, it just wouldn't seem right, bad conocktations.


  • #36
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Another fine contribution to Irish society by that "ethnic group":rolleyes:


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  • #37
    Cat Melodeon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭Cat Melodeon


    few cans? wrote: »
    Jesus i am so sick of these stupid do gooders going on about 'traveller bashing'.
    There would be no bashing in the first place if they just abided by laws like the rest of us.
    Yeah because no settled person has ever broken the law or abused an animal. Being against broad sweeping prejudiced comments does not equate to being a 'do gooder'.
    few cans? wrote: »
    Its time people started telling things as it is.
    And one of those things is that no matter what one individual Traveller gets up to, the whole Pavee community is accused of being guilty of the same. Why don't you apply the same logic to the rest of society? We'd all be animal abusing, wife-beating, child-molesting, bank-robbing, drug-dealing scum, whether we're Travellers or settled.

    ANYONE who beats an animal deserves to be punished, whether they are settled or Traveller. Trying to get the authorities to prosecute ANYONE of animal abuse is next to impossible, regardless of who the abuser is. There simply aren't the resources in place to investigate and follow up investigations with prosecutions. Abuse shouldn't happen in the first place and anyone who abuses an animal is a scumbag in my book, but there is absolutely no need to start going on about Travellers being particularly guilty of this particular crime when it's more than Travellers who are at it.


  • #38
    few cans?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭few cans?


    Just want to mention i have no problem with your personal views. What really grinds my gears is people lashing out at people about 'traveller bashing' when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about or what these people have been subjected to do. You seem fairly level headed.

    For example, my parents have had so much trouble with travellers in the past that if anyone tried to tell them off for 'traveller bashing', it is very frustrating. Im sure you can understand that.

    There is always children/ teenage traveller kids flying around the ring road in waterford on their horses and carts. really do be whipping the sh1te out of them. Many reports of the horses wandering around the roads at night, no supervision. A man was killed in waterford only a few weeks ago by crashing into a horse in the middle of the night, but i have no idea who owned the horse, it may not have been the travellers.


  • #39
    westendgirlie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,125 ✭✭✭westendgirlie


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    I've worked with Travellers in the past so have some first hand experience of the problems which surround the Travelling community.

    God knows what type of violence those children have been exposed to. Domestic violence is a considerable problem in the travelling community.

    Would you not contact social services with these issues so that the children can be removed from their violent families?


  • #40
    _feedback_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,274 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    If you were concerned about animal and child welfare, now really really concerned and you wanted to ask a legal question on the large and resourceful website that is boards.ie would you have approached it the same way? With the same emotive language? On AH?

    Now remember your concern is for animal welfare and child safety.

    Is this how you would go about educating yourself on these issues?

    On Ah?

    C'mon man.

    Yeah, I see what you mean. I just don't see any problem with the tone of it. It raises a very valid question. Maybe it could have been posted in a better place.

    Anyway, no matter where it is posted, or in what manner, I agree that it is dangerous and cruel. Why are horse and cart still allowed on main roads? There is no need for them anymore.


  • #41
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    With the same emotive language?

    As a matter of interest what language would be acceptable as non-emotive when you are describing the physical abuse of an animal? What should the OP have said to describe the act?


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  • #42
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Green Back wrote: »
    Surely if that cycle of violence is to be broken it needs to be highlighted.

    It certainly does (not just n the traveller community as you know).
    People who show violent tendencies to animals are also more disposed to violence against humans.

    Yep, and I think it can be the same reversed.

    They focus on Traveller women as being people who can bring about change in their communities.

    Traveller women are way easier to engage with when it comes to education and when you educate a woman you are storing it in her for her children and it will pay itself forward with far more potential than for men.

    Also, when a Traveller woman is on the recieving end of of domestic violence she takes massive power into her hands by going to a womens refuge.

    For Traveller men there is great shame when his wife leaves for the shelter because he kinda loses face in the community.

    Things are changing slowly but they are changing.


  • #43
    few cans?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭few cans?


    Cat Melodeon wrote: »
    Yeah because no settled person has ever broken the law or abused an animal. Being against broad sweeping prejudiced comments does not equate to being a 'do gooder'.

    jesus here we go again. I cannot stress enough that i am not talking about all travellers. I didnt mean all settled people are grand, what i meant is that travellers should be expected to follow the law and recieve the same treatment as the rest of us. Im not saying all settled people follow the law, but it seems we are more obligated to do so.
    Ive had travellers try to sell my own equipment back to me! it even said my dads name on a chainsaw they half arsed tried to wipe off! and what did the guards say? 'nothing we can do about it. theres no talking to them'. you try tell me this is fair? if we go anywhere to complain about it, we're 'traveller bashing'
    Cat Melodeon wrote: »
    And one of those things is that no matter what one individual Traveller gets up to, the whole Pavee community is accused of being guilty of the same. Why don't you apply the same logic to the rest of society? We'd all be animal abusing, wife-beating, child-molesting, bank-robbing, drug-dealing scum, whether we're Travellers or settled.

    this is exactly what im saying. the reason members of the travelling community get blamed is because IT IS TRAVELLERS doing these particular things. And i have never spoken to anybody who has accused the entire community. There is nobody painting the whole community with the same brush so will ye stop using that as a cop out.
    Cat Melodeon wrote: »
    ANYONE who beats an animal deserves to be punished, whether they are settled or Traveller. Trying to get the authorities to prosecute ANYONE of animal abuse is next to impossible, regardless of who the abuser is. There simply aren't the resources in place to investigate and follow up investigations with prosecutions.

    aye this is true. fully agree
    Cat Melodeon wrote: »
    Abuse shouldn't happen in the first place and anyone who abuses an animal is a scumbag in my book, but there is absolutely no need to start going on about Travellers being particularly guilty of this particular crime when it's more than Travellers who are at it.

    but in this PARTICULAR case it IS members of the travelling community! this is my point! if we see any settled people baytin cows or sheep we'll start a new thread! :P


  • #44
    Cat Melodeon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭Cat Melodeon


    few cans? wrote: »
    Just want to mention i have no problem with your personal views.
    So relieved to hear that.
    few cans? wrote: »
    What really grinds my gears is people lashing out at people about 'traveller bashing' when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about or what these people have been subjected to do. You seem fairly level headed.

    For example, my parents have had so much trouble with travellers in the past that if anyone tried to tell them off for 'traveller bashing', it is very frustrating. Im sure you can understand that.
    Presumably your parents have had problems with a particular group of people, not all of the 23,000 or so Travellers in the State? Take your venom out on those who cause you hassle, not the community at large, It is not fair to label an entire group of people based on your negative experiences of a few. If that were the case I would hate all Dublin people because I was mugged by a Dublin scrote a few years ago.


    few cans? wrote: »
    There is always children/ teenage traveller kids flying around the ring road in waterford on their horses and carts. really do be whipping the sh1te out of them. Many reports of the horses wandering around the roads at night, no supervision. A man was killed in waterford only a few weeks ago by crashing into a horse in the middle of the night, but i have no idea who owned the horse, it may not have been the travellers.
    I'm not denying that there are problems with the way that some Travellers drive and generally treat their horses. But as you said, in all cases, it may not have been the Travellers. Many Travellers treat their horses very well - they are often their most valuable possession, particularly in the case of good trotters. The ISPCA in Cork have recorded a 40% increase in incidents of horse cruelty and neglect in the past 3 years that they attribute to the recession and to people (settled people) no longer being able to afford to keep the horses they bought when times were good. There is zero market for middling horses these days, many owners are simply abandoning their animals when times get tough.


  • #45
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    prinz wrote: »
    As a matter of interest what language would be acceptable as non-emotive when you are describing the physical abuse of an animal? What should the OP have said to describe the act?

    Stop pretending to be dumb.


  • #46
    Cat Melodeon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭Cat Melodeon


    few cans? wrote: »
    jesus here we go again. I cannot stress enough that i am not talking about all travellers.
    Then use the terms 'some Travellers' or 'a group of Travellers'. You use blanket language that accuses all Travellers, you do not differentiate and that is unfair.


  • #47
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Stop pretending to be dumb.

    It's a simple question no? You've referred to the 'emotive language' a couple of times now, it should be a straightforward matter to suggest a better less-emotive way to describe it.


  • #48
    few cans?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭few cans?


    Cat Melodeon wrote: »
    Then use the terms 'some Travellers' or 'a group of Travellers'. You use blanket language that accuses all Travellers, you do not differentiate and that is unfair.

    fair enough, insert 'some' before the term 'travellers' in all my posts. :)

    The main point im trying to make, is that in this particular case it is 2 members of the travelling commmunity (presumably along with their families or whatever) that are at fault and so should be treated as such. If it were a pair of lads from wexford we wouldnt have a thread about 'wexford bashing' and this is what really annoys me. Im sure you can understand that


  • #49
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    westendgirlie wrote: »
    Would you not contact social services with these issues so that the children can be removed from their violent families?

    Not as a matter of course no. Children are only removed from their families under the most extreme circumstances.


  • #50
    Cat Melodeon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭Cat Melodeon


    few cans? wrote: »
    fair enough, insert 'some' before the term 'travellers' in all my posts. :)

    The main point im trying to make, is that in this particular case it is 2 members of the travelling commmunity (presumably along with their families or whatever) that are at fault and so should be treated as such. If it were a pair of lads from wexford we wouldnt have a thread about 'wexford bashing' and this is what really annoys me. Im sure you can understand that
    I'm pretty sure a hell of a lot of Wexford people would accuse you of Wexford-bashing if you came out with a statement like 'Wexford people abuse their animals' without qualifying it to read 'two Wexford people abused their animal'. The thread wouldn't have been derailed from the actual issue at hand - animal abuse - if biased language hadn't been used in the first place.


  • #51
    few cans?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭few cans?


    Cat Melodeon wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure a hell of a lot of Wexford people would accuse you of Wexford-bashing if you came out with a statement like 'Wexford people abuse their animals' without qualifying it to read 'two Wexford people abused their animal'. The thread wouldn't have been derailed from the actual issue at hand - animal abuse - if biased language hadn't been used in the first place.


    Blatter wrote: »
    Was just driving along a main road around an hour ago and saw two very young travellers on a cart with a horse. They looked no younger than 10 or 11.

    i think he phrased in the exact same way you did


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  • #52
    wild_cat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    Cat Melodeon wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure a hell of a lot of Wexford people would accuse you of Wexford-bashing if you came out with a statement like 'Wexford people abuse their animals' without qualifying it to read 'two Wexford people abused their animal'. The thread wouldn't have been derailed from the actual issue at hand - animal abuse - if biased language hadn't been used in the first place.

    Are you giving that example do to the amount of travellers in Wexford?


  • #53
    rossc007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭rossc007


    Cat Melodeon wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure a hell of a lot of Wexford people would accuse you of Wexford-bashing if you came out with a statement like 'Wexford people abuse their animals' without qualifying it to read 'two Wexford people abused their animal'. The thread wouldn't have been derailed from the actual issue at hand - animal abuse - if biased language hadn't been used in the first place.

    The issue at hand was 2 young travellers whipping a horse, not animal abuse in general. I've rarely, if ever, noted how well a travellers horse was looked after. Im sure there are some, but they must be hiding them.


  • #54
    Cat Melodeon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭Cat Melodeon


    few cans? wrote: »
    i think he phrased in the exact same way you did
    I was talking about other posters (and yourself) rather than the OP. If it had been the OP, I would have quoted his posts rather than yours.
    wild_cat wrote: »
    Are you giving that example do to the amount of travellers in Wexford?
    Nope, just responding to the example given by few beers?. I have no idea how many Travellers live in Wexford.
    rossc007 wrote: »
    I've rarely, if ever, noted how well a travellers horse was looked after. Im sure there are some, but they must be hiding them.
    They are certainly not hidden in these parts, but that may be because I am friendly with and work with quite a few Travellers, some of whom keep and trot horses, and actually look beyond the stereotype.


  • #55
    wild_cat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    Joe Duffy right now lads!!!!!


  • #56
    tallaghtmick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,724 ✭✭✭tallaghtmick


    Here's how I see it......settled community=majority of people and a minority of those are scum,travellers=minority community and the majority of them are scum.


  • #57
    Mr. Denton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 867 ✭✭✭Mr. Denton


    Fúcking knackers.


  • #58
    Augmerson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Augmerson


    prinz wrote: »
    As a matter of interest what language would be acceptable as non-emotive when you are describing the physical abuse of an animal? What should the OP have said to describe the act?

    POTD :D


  • #59
    few cans?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭few cans?


    Cat Melodeon wrote: »
    I was talking about other posters (and yourself) rather than the OP. If it had been the OP, I would have quoted his posts rather than yours.

    iam going to give myself an ulcer if i try stress any more how i am not talking about the whole community. just particular people. you know that and that seems to be your only argument


  • #60
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,967 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Well done OP for confronting them


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  • #61
    tallaghtmick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,724 ✭✭✭tallaghtmick


    mikemac wrote: »
    Well done OP for confronting them

    Probably took the OP's reg :D


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