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Race hate gang in Temple Bar orgy of violence [mod note #1]

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Comments

  • #482
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    EarlERizer wrote: »
    Are you Racist? your generalising stereotyping is at best,cheap! and then trying to imply another poster is racist towards 'darkies' as you put it,The cheek of you! you should get someone to have a look at that chip residing on your shoulder!

    So you are saying that Southern European drinking culture isn't significantly different than Irish drinking culture? Because having lived in both Ireland and Spain, I would beg to differ. And so would most of my Italian and Spanish friends who live in Dublin.

    If you don't think this thread has a strong whiff of "keep the blacks out" to it, there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.
    EarlERizer wrote: »
    Yeah because it's only a racially motivated attack if the perpetrators yell out who their intended victims are, much like with all those countless racial attacks been suffered by for example Africans whereby the perpetrators ran throught the streets yelling "lets kill the blacks" :rolleyes:

    Is the fact that several people were assaulted by this gang not disturbing enough for you? or the fact that they attacked one guy like a pack of animals leaving him so severally beaten he required re-constructive surgery!

    Sorry,but even here in our uncivilised drunken nation of unsociable inbreds what happened to that guy is disturbing!

    It is disturbing enough as it is without trying to create racial hysteria around it. Until I see more credible information about the motives of the attackers, given the demographics of Temple Bar, or most of the Dublin City Center at night, I'm having a hard time seeing how this is a race hate crime rather than a vicious attack - of which there are far too many in Ireland, I'm afraid.
    Vertakill wrote: »
    When (as southsiderosie, inaccurately quoted) 99% of people in Ireland are white, referring to a person as 'black' is fairly beneficial when it comes to gaining information on the offender(s).

    I did not say that 99% of people in Ireland were white. I said 99% of people in TEMPLE BAR on a given weekend were white. And based on my experience, I can count on one hand the times when I was in a pub in the city center and there were other non-white people there...clubs maybe, but not pubs.

    Taking the race of the suspects out of the new story was probably a PC editor run amok, as this is pretty standard in most countries. I understand that Ireland is new to immigration, but the "don't rock the boat" approach of both the political and media elite is going to cause problems in the long run.


  • #483
    Vertakill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Vertakill


    Nodin wrote: »
    .......but you're the one who is making the claim - the only one, I might add. You say you saw this account. It's down to you to back it up.

    Listen, I'm not your mother. I'm not spoonfeeding you. Go find it.

    You clearly didn't look very hard for it considering it's on the opening pages with lots and lots of thanks.


  • #484
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    EarlERizer wrote: »
    Potatoe - Potato :rolleyes: ........ or is it a card in a deck all on it's own? can only be used as a defence or justification by a particular race and inturn not be used against same?

    Double Standards!

    It's like the 'N' word , it can be used generously in certain genres of music by those of African,Carribean descent and in their general conversations in the street, in both derogatory & friendly terms but god forbid if anyone else uses the word be it in street slang or singing along to their favourite rapper.

    or the proud 'muslim' giving it the large "coz i'm musslem innit" (seemingly the louder it's shouted the more innocent they are) when they're been asked to pipe down,move along,show their licence etc.......not too devout in their muslim ways when their sat in the local parks drinking cans and hanging out of little girls or in the nightclubs getting as pi$$ed as the drink loving Irish and chasing skirt!

    Has all logic left the thread? At this point, it just seems like you are looking for something to whinge about.


  • #485
    Vertakill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Vertakill


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    I did not say that 99% of people in Ireland were white. I said 99% of people in TEMPLE BAR on a given weekend were white. And based on my experience, I can count on one hand the times when I was in a pub in the city center and there were other non-white people there...clubs maybe, but not pubs.

    Well, in that case, it's even more inaccurate than before. 99% of people in Temple Bar on a given weekend are most definitely NOT white.
    southsiderosie wrote: »
    Taking the race of the suspects out of the new story was probably a PC editor run amok, as this is pretty standard in most countries. I understand that Ireland is new to immigration, but the "don't rock the boat" approach of both the political and media elite is going to cause problems in the long run.

    Agreed.
    southsiderosie wrote: »
    Has all logic left the thread? At this point, it just seems like you are looking for something to whinge about.

    Says she, who has countered the alleged racism on here with... more racism and stereotyping. Bravo.


  • #486
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Vertakill wrote: »
    Listen, I'm not your mother. I'm not spoonfeeding you. Go find it.

    You clearly didn't look very hard for it considering it's on the opening pages with lots and lots of thanks.

    ...the supposed "facebook" quote? Dear jesus...........


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  • #487
    Phenomenally Phrank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 94 ✭✭Phenomenally Phrank


    If they're convicted, i'd recommend putting all five of them on a small dinghy and then towing it out into the middle of the Atlantic.**** them, we shouldn't be wasting our tax money on these *****.Our government need to change our country's immigration policies, implement a filter mechanism to keep the human garbage out.:mad:


  • #488
    Vertakill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Vertakill


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...the supposed "facebook" quote? Dear jesus...........

    Read about 60% down the page and scan for DJ.

    And in case there was a discrepancy about how often they've done this...
    The gang are now expected to face a huge number of charges, including multiple serious assault charges, violent disorder, theft and production of an offensive weapon.

    The mother of one of the suspects has a conviction and served jail time for trafficking children into France from Nigeria.

    The gang is suspected of being involved in other street assaults and have links to a criminal who was involved in robbing head shops and has been convicted of hijacking a Dublin taxi.

    Lovely people altogether. They just need a hug and a cup of tea and I'm sure they'll turn things around.


  • #489
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Vertakill wrote: »
    Says she, who has countered the alleged racism on here with... more racism and stereotyping. Bravo.

    How is it racist to point out how cultural differences affect how people interact socially? Ireland's drinking culture is really difficult for a lot of foreigners, myself included. And it is very much a handicap for people who are expected to go out and drink for multiple rounds with their work colleagues, but end up being seen as stingy or unfriendly because they only want one glass of wine or one pint. These are real issues for many foreigners in Ireland.

    If you and others on this thread are really concerned about long-term integration, it might make sense to actually take into account how immigrants see the situation as well, not just how Irish people see it. Because it would seem to me that over half of the issues stemming from immigration stem from misunderstandings or a failure to communicate rather than some kind of deeper intractable problem.

    As for my 'darkie' comment: what the hell am I supposed to think given some of the hysterical comments on this thread on white flight? There are very few blacks in city center pubs on the weekend. The idea that Irish people are somehow being driven outside of the canals is patently ridiculous.


  • #490
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Vertakill wrote: »
    Read about 60% down the page and scan for DJ.

    And in case there was a discrepancy about how often they've done this...

    Yes, thats what I read originally and referred you back to earlier. From what you've linked -
    In the most serious incident, a DJ who was standing on Curved Street was set-upon and almost killed by the gang of thugs.
    A source explained: "The DJ was standing outside a premises while other assaults were going on around him. His DJ bag -- with records in it -- was on the ground beside him.
    "One of the gang picked up the DJ's bag and ran off, with the victim running after him. Then the attacker turned around and punched the victim, knocking him unconscious.
    "When the DJ hit the floor, the culprit stamped on the man's head in what was a ferocious display of violence.
    "This victim is very lucky to be alive -- the entire left side of his head was broken because of that stamping incident. The victim ended up having to have a metal plate inserted into his head -- if this did not happen he would have lost his eyesight."

    Nothing there about "luring" "alleyway" or even the rest of them piling in as per your version here
    you're glossing over the fact that some black guys robbed a white guys bag and lured him into an alleyway to beat him within inches of his life.
    This wasn't some sort of chance affair. This had to be considered pre-meditated.

    What exactly are your thoughts on this? Wrong place, wrong time? Complete coincidence that the direction the robber ran with the bag happened to be into a gang of other black guys, who just coincidentally happened to have bats and other weapons on them?
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73243523&postcount=462


  • #491
    EarlERizer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭EarlERizer


    Nodin wrote: »
    I went through the thread earlier and didn't see anything like that. Having read your post there I went through the thread again and didn't see it either. According to the OP, yer man was battered when the fella he was chasing turned on him. So far, thats all the information here I can find.

    Keep re-reading over the thread, go post by post, it's in there! there's even an update on how he's getting on today, a[[arently posted by a friend of his.

    just a brief explaination of what happened to him (the DJ) - stood outside a club chatting , one of the gang approach him and snatch his shoulder bag/record bag and make off with it, he persues the 'lone thief' who turns up a side street where the rest of his gang are lay in wait, now the DJ finds himself in a different situation,no longer is he trying to catch the thief who's just stole his belongings he's now faced with a gang intent on harming him.

    Now,before posting anymore defensive rubbish to the benefit of this gang, put yourself in the DJ's position, your bag is taken,you give chase,your confronted by a gang (of whites) and battered sensless.....how offended would you feel if there were white people posting rubbish in defence of the scumbags that had attacked you? Wouldn't the word 'Ignorance' atleast come to mind?

    So far it's apparent that in the eyes of some liberal thinkers and PC brigaders, the journalist is wide of the mark, the police source is ficticous,the witness are questionable, the motives are questionable,the victims brought it all on themselves and these guys where actually quitely making their way down through Temple Bar minding their own business when all of a sudden people began racially abusing them and they had no option but to turn and give their baying mob a stiff telling off all the while feeling safe in their minority status on this 99.9% white dominated street.

    In all honesty I hope this trial (when it gets to it) doesnt become a race relations farce and those on trial are tried for their crimes and not their colour or that of their victims!


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  • #492
    EarlERizer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭EarlERizer


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    Has all logic left the thread? At this point, it just seems like you are looking for something to whinge about.

    And now the pot calls the kettle 'black' :rolleyes:

    Yes ,it would certainly appear so all logic has left the thread.

    I have plenty I could whinge about, instead I am here reading the whinging from you and giving my opinion,ive asked a few questions which appear to have been ducked,but what the hay, it's AH afterall.

    salt & vinegar?


  • #493
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    EarlERizer wrote: »
    Keep re-reading over the thread, go post by post, it's in there! there's even an update on how he's getting on today, a[[arently posted by a friend of his.

    just a brief (...........)victims!

    It isn't. Theres some anecdote and a supposed quote from facebook in post 31 and thats it.

    Nobody has done the majority of things you suggest, or defended this bunch at all. If, however, you find somebody who has, do take it up with them.


  • #494
    EarlERizer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭EarlERizer


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    So you are saying that Southern European drinking culture isn't significantly different than Irish drinking culture? Because having lived in both Ireland and Spain, I would beg to differ. And so would most of my Italian and Spanish friends who live in Dublin.

    If you don't think this thread has a strong whiff of "keep the blacks out" to it, there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.


    It is disturbing enough as it is without trying to create racial hysteria around it. Until I see more credible information about the motives of the attackers, given the demographics of Temple Bar, or most of the Dublin City Center at night, I'm having a hard time seeing how this is a race hate crime rather than a vicious attack - of which there are far too many in Ireland, I'm afraid..

    I actually think this thread has a stench of P.C. "leave the blacks alone" to it , there were a few posts of ignorant diatribe regarding "keep the blacks out" but on the whole it's made up of a decent debate.

    Don't suppose you have the deeds to Butt bridge? or Ballsbridge?? you can keep your Brooklyn one!


  • #495
    Vertakill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Vertakill


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    How is it racist to point out how cultural differences affect how people interact socially? Ireland's drinking culture is really difficult for a lot of foreigners, myself included. And it is very much a handicap for people who are expected to go out and drink for multiple rounds with their work colleagues, but end up being seen as stingy or unfriendly because they only want one glass of wine or one pint. These are real issues for many foreigners in Ireland.

    You're obviously socialising with the wrong crowd then and that's nothing to do with me or any other Irish person.
    I have plenty of mates that don't drink on nights out. I've done it loooooads of times myself when I've a match the next morning and nobody bats an eyelid.
    Your experience is entirely anecdotal and, I feel sorry for you based on the company that you keep and I'd hope you wouldn't stereotype everyone in that way.
    southsiderosie wrote: »
    If you and others on this thread are really concerned about long-term integration, it might make sense to actually take into account how immigrants see the situation as well, not just how Irish people see it. Because it would seem to me that over half of the issues stemming from immigration stem from misunderstandings or a failure to communicate rather than some kind of deeper intractable problem.

    I interact with immigrants as I'd expect to be interacted with if I was an immigrant in their country. I show them respect, I try to include them where possible and I respect whatever cultural differences that we have.

    If you've already got a preconceived notion of the culture that you're visiting, then these misunderstandings are going to be exasperated. But that's partially your fault too. Do you honestly believe your friends or peers are looking at you with disgust, solely because you aren't drinking as much as them? Or are you just assuming that's what they must be thinking?
    southsiderosie wrote: »
    As for my 'darkie' comment: what the hell am I supposed to think given some of the hysterical comments on this thread on white flight? There are very few blacks in city center pubs on the weekend. The idea that Irish people are somehow being driven outside of the canals is patently ridiculous.

    Well, it's not something that I have said or even referred to, nor has EarlERizer I don't think (?), so don't you see that it's a little unfair that you are throwing stuff at us that neither of us have said?
    I don't think anyones been driven anywhere.
    I do think that offences by 'foreigners' on locals should be stamped down on though.

    Sugar coating things or manipulating news reports for fear of the backlash will only make things worse in the long run because people won't be aware of all the problems until it's far too late.


  • #496
    Vertakill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Vertakill


    EarlERizer wrote: »
    ive asked a few questions which appear to have been ducked,but what the hay, it's AH afterall.

    I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this is a very one way conversation.


  • #497
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Vertakill wrote: »
    ...........

    Sugar coating things or manipulating news reports for fear of the backlash will only make things worse in the long run because people won't be aware of all the problems until it's far too late.

    It has to be said thats a bit rich coming from somebody who came up with an account that bears no relation to the incident in question. Making up problems won't help anyone either.


  • #498
    Vertakill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Vertakill


    Nodin wrote: »
    It has to be said thats a bit rich coming from somebody who came up with an account that bears no relation to the incident in question. Making up problems won't help anyone either.

    When was the last post you made that wasn't referring to this?
    Get over it man and stop avoiding all the other points that people are making.

    Anyways, it was one of the attacks the gang is being done for so it most definitely bears a relation to the incident, regardless of the series of events that took place.

    Contribute (more than just back-patting in the form of thanking rosies posts) or don't respond to me.

    You're starting to look foolish.


  • #499
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Vertakill wrote: »
    When was the last post you made that wasn't referring to this?
    Get over it man and stop avoiding all the other points that people are making.

    You're starting to look foolish.

    ...its a bit hard to get over this
    In the most serious incident, a DJ who was standing on Curved Street was set-upon and almost killed by the gang of thugs.
    A source explained: "The DJ was standing outside a premises while other assaults were going on around him. His DJ bag -- with records in it -- was on the ground beside him.
    "One of the gang picked up the DJ's bag and ran off, with the victim running after him. Then the attacker turned around and punched the victim, knocking him unconscious.
    "When the DJ hit the floor, the culprit stamped on the man's head in what was a ferocious display of violence.
    "This victim is very lucky to be alive -- the entire left side of his head was broken because of that stamping incident. The victim ended up having to have a metal plate inserted into his head -- if this did not happen he would have lost his eyesight."

    vs this.....
    you're glossing over the fact that some black guys robbed a white guys bag and lured him into an alleyway to beat him within inches of his life.
    This wasn't some sort of chance affair. This had to be considered pre-meditated.

    What exactly are your thoughts on this? Wrong place, wrong time? Complete coincidence that the direction the robber ran with the bag happened to be into a gang of other black guys, who just coincidentally happened to have bats and other weapons on them?

    ......when you were trying to maintain that this was 'proof' it was a racist attack and that you'd seen a source to back this up in the thread but failed to provide it.

    So far theres nothing here to show anything other than a violent group of muggers.


  • #500
    Amber Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭Amber Lamps


    Sweet Jesus :rolleyes:


  • #501
    Vertakill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Vertakill


    Nodin wrote: »
    ......when you were trying to maintain that this was 'proof' it was a racist attack and that you'd seen a source to back this up in the thread but failed to provide it.

    Failed to provide it or you didn't read the thread and actually missed it? I'm confused over which...
    Despite your obsession with this particular scenario (which you haven't let go for about 3 pages now), it took you over an hour to find the post I was referring to and you only managed that after I told you where it was...

    Get over it. Plenty far more interesting points been made since that one. I'll retract everything I said about that incident if you'd care to answer all the other things that you've dodged.

    Not responding to another post of yours that even resembles the DJ issue.


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  • #502
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Vertakill wrote: »
    Failed to provide it or you didn't read the thread and actually missed it? I'm confused over which...
    Despite your obsession with this particular scenario (which you haven't let go for about 3 pages now), it took you over an hour to find the post I was referring to and you only managed that after I told you where it was...

    Get over it. Plenty far more interesting points been made since that one. I'll retract everything I said about that incident if you'd care to answer all the other things that you've dodged.

    Please do so, and lay out what you want me to answer. I'll go through it on the morrow.


  • #503
    Vertakill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭Vertakill


    Nodin wrote: »
    Please do so, and lay out what you want me to answer. I'll go through it on the morrow.

    I've better things to do than spoonfeeding kids, sorry.


  • #504
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Vertakill wrote: »
    I've better things to do than spoonfeeding kids, sorry.

    Dear me......


  • #505
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Vertakill wrote: »
    Only managed to read 6 or 7 pages of this as it's so loaded.

    Nobody is claiming that white people are angels... the point that's being made, and ignored by the PC brigade, is that if you are a guest in someone elses country, you do NOT go around beating the locals within an inch of their life!
    Can you actually support that claim by showing us any posts where someone is ignoring the violence?


  • #506
    LighterGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭LighterGuy


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Can you actually support that claim by showing us any posts where someone is ignoring the violence?

    In fairness, I've been following this thread. Theres more about weather it was a racial crime, than the actual crime itself.
    People are jumping out of the woodwork to spout "pc opinions" such as "you dont know if it was racial crime, just because the report said" blah blah blah.

    As I said eariler in the thread. By that same logic we should question every single news item we read. But yet, in other threads we dont.


    Biggest point I can make is what if these were junkies reported. Instead of black men. Would we have a 30+ thread debating? we wouldnt.


  • #507
    The Left Hand Of God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 413 ✭✭The Left Hand Of God


    Can black people be violent?

    NOT ON MY WATCH!!!


  • #508
    richiebceltic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭richiebceltic


    Out da fcuk


  • #509
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    In fairness, I've been following this thread. Theres more about weather it was a racial crime, than the actual crime itself.
    People are jumping out of the woodwork to spout "pc opinions" such as "you dont know if it was racial crime, just because the report said" blah blah blah.

    As I said eariler in the thread. By that same logic we should question every single news item we read. But yet, in other threads we dont.


    Biggest point I can make is what if these were junkies reported. Instead of black men. Would we have a 30+ thread debating? we wouldnt.

    This is what the Daily Mail thrives on, ignoring what's actually said and focusing on what people think are said.

    I don't think anybody has doubted the veracity of the attack or put pc opinions ahead of it. Going on the thread anybody saying otherwise lacks reading skills or comprehension of context. It's usually the latter.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #510
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    K-9 wrote: »
    This is what the Daily Mail thrives on, ignoring what's actually said and focusing on what people think are said.

    I don't think anybody has doubted the veracity of the attack or put pc opinions ahead of it. Going on the thread anybody saying otherwise lacks reading skills or comprehension of context. It's usually the latter.

    I'm not part of the semi-mythical PC brigade, and these guys should be lobbed out of the country if they are convicted (after they serve their sentences). What I object to is how some people are going hook, line and sinker for the race war angle based on a single quote from an 'anomymous source' in that epitome of high-class journalism, the Herald. They most likely invented this 'source' to make the story more sexy, to sell more papers.

    The facts will come out in the trial. If I want to read about Twink's latest doings, I'll read the Herald.


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  • #511
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    I'm not part of the semi-mythical PC brigade, and these guys should be lobbed out of the country if they are convicted (after they serve their sentences). What I object to is how some people are going hook, line and sinker for the race war angle based on a single quote from an 'anomymous source' in that epitome of high-class journalism, the Herald. They most likely invented this 'source' to make the story more sexy, to sell more papers.

    The facts will come out in the trial. If I want to read about Twink's latest doings, I'll read the Herald.

    I'd call it a lack of social skills.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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