Race hate gang in Temple Bar orgy of violence [mod note #1]

df1985 · 11-07-2011 08:58PM

any foreign person regardless of skin colour, or anything else for that matter should be kicked out of the country after breaking the law. black african, white european or buddhist monk......send them packing.

southsiderosie · 11-07-2011 09:14PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Immigrant communities are largely marginalised and indeed seem to intentionally isolate themselves from the mainstream Irish society, prefering to stick to their own.

Have you ever thought about why that might be?

Social life in Ireland revolves around drinking. Heavy drinking.

If you are Muslim, and you don't drink, socializing is basically impossible.

If you are Southern European, and you only have a drink or two when you go out, socializing is very difficult because you are expected to buy (expensive) rounds with everyone else, and then sit there while your Irish colleagues get ****faced (and annoyed with you for not having six pints).

If you are Eastern European and make 10/hour, there is no way you are going to the pub; you are going to Lidl and stocking up so you can party at home. Plus, your English may not be too great, and it is much easier to socialize in your native language.

In all of these cases, it simply makes sense for these people to 'stick to their own', or at a minimum hang out with other foreigners who don't get/don't like Irish drinking culture. It doesn't mean that they don't like Ireland, or the opportunities they have there, but they just prefer to socialize differently. I don't understand why that is such a big issue, but I guess some people won't be happy until Ahmed can down 10 pints a night and belt out "The Jug of Punch" while wearing an Aran jumper :rolleyes:.

southsiderosie · 11-07-2011 09:16PM

Computer Sci wrote: »

I personally would never go into Temple Bar again after hearing this, I can see the 20 year project going downhill and turning into yet another ghetto. It is a sad thought, but it is the truth.

LOL, I never went into Temple Bar when I lived in Dublin because it was full of drunken hen/stag parties and local scangers around the perimeter. And the vast, vast majority of these people were whites from Ireland or the UK.

Also, as a non-white person, I can think of maybe three occasions in six months where I was not the ONLY non-white person in a pub in Dublin City Center. So pardon me if I think your fears about hoards of darkies taking over are misplaced. :pac:

Vertakill · 11-07-2011 09:17PM

Nodin wrote: »

...but any gang randomly attacking people in temple bar would, generally speaking, hit white people......

Yeah but this particular gang are black and are targeting white people. It doesn't say Irish, Polish, Latvian etc.. but that's beside the point, it's racially motivated.

If there was a white gang targeting black lads, then that would be racially motivated too and it would be equally as bad. I can't understand how you're not seeing this?

southsiderosie wrote: »

LOL, I never went into Temple Bar when I lived in Dublin because it was full of drunken hen/stag parties and local scangers around the perimeter. And the vast, vast majority of these people were whites from Ireland or the UK.

Also, as a non-white person, I can think of maybe three occasions in six months where I was not the ONLY non-white person in a pub in Dublin City Center. So pardon me if I think your fears about hoards of darkies taking over are misplaced. :pac:

Nobody has a problem with the 'darkies' (your choice of crass words, not mine) that are law abiding. Same way nobody has a problem with law abiding 'whities'.
Everyone has a problem with criminals, regardless of colour or creed.

Especially when a particular group are targeting a specific race... regardless of what country you're in, this is a serious problem and needs to be dealt with severely or it will only encourage this sort of behaviour.... encouraging that will lead to more isolation, more frustration, more segregation and finally, more crime.

Nobody of any colour should have to feel intimidated based on their colour... so the people that are causing this unrest need to be dealt with asap.

Nodin · 11-07-2011 09:22PM

Vertakill wrote: »

Yeah but this particular gang are black and are targeting white people. It doesn't say Irish, Polish, Latvian etc.. but that's beside the point, it's racially motivated.

If there was a white gang targeting black lads, then that would be racially motivated too and it would be equally as bad. I can't understand how you're not seeing this?

Ok.....lets imagine a green gang go on the rampage and attack 10 people in temple bar. Odds that those ten are going to be white. Now, lets imagine that the population of the country is and always has been green. Odds are the green lads will be hitting - shock horror - other green fellas.

The only "evidence" that this shower were racially motivated is a single remark in the Evening Herald attributed to an anonymous source. Now while itspossible that some group of African lads, or children of Africans went out to bash the white man, its rather flimsy evidence to be basing that notion on in this case at this time.

southsiderosie · 11-07-2011 09:24PM

Vertakill wrote: »

Nobody has a problem with the 'darkies' (your choice of crass words, not mine) that are law abiding. Same way nobody has a problem with law abiding 'whities'.
Everyone has a problem with criminals, regardless of colour or creed.

Especially when a particular group are targeting a specific race... regardless of what country you're in, this is a serious problem and needs to be dealt with severely or it will only encourage this sort of behaviour.

If it comes out in the trial that they were running through the streets yelling "Let's kill the white people" or something of the like, then I agree that it was disturbing.

However, on any given night, 99.9% of the people in Temple Bar ARE GOING TO BE WHITE. So if you have a pack of people out who just want to cause havoc, and they go to Temple Bar, the victims of that havoc are going to be WHITE. Most of the residents, tourists, and patrons of Dublin city center are white. That's why until there are further, more credible details, it seems premature to immediately label this a 'white hate crime' since pretty much everyone IS white.

EDIT: yeah, what Nodin said!

Vertakill · 11-07-2011 09:24PM

Nodin wrote: »

Ok.....lets imagine a green gang go on the rampage and attack 10 people in temple bar. Odds that those ten are going to be white. Now, lets imagine that the population of the country is and always has been green. Odds are the green lads will be hitting - shock horror - other green fellas.

The only "evidence" that this shower were racially motivated is a single remark in the Evening Herald attributed to an anonymous source. Now while itspossible that some group of African lads, or children of Africans went out to bash the white man, its rather flimsy evidence to be basing that notion on in this case at this time.

Are you honestly debating this... seriously? Are you still clinging to the idea that this is just an isolated incident and it isn't racially motivated?

The black guys involved have admitted themselves that it was racially provoked (by playing the race card). (I'm not 100% sure on if there were more incidents than this so I'll retract some of the sentence).

I'm really not seeing where you're coming from here... black, green or white.

southsiderosie · 11-07-2011 09:27PM

Vertakill wrote: »

Are you honestly debating this... seriously? Are you still clinging to the idea that this is just an isolated incident and it isn't racially motivated?

This is only one of many incidents like this and the black guys involved have admitted themselves that it was racially provoked (by playing the race card).

I'm really not seeing where you're coming from here... black, green or white.

They played the race card, but not in the way you are claiming they did - they did not admit to doing anything because they wanted to beat up some white people; they tried to pull the 'coz I is black' card. Different card, and not really the same deck.

Nodin · 11-07-2011 09:28PM

Vertakill wrote: »

Are you honestly debating this... seriously? Are you still clinging to the idea that this is just an isolated incident and it isn't racially motivated?
.

There was another incident involving the same crowd?

Vertakill wrote: »

This is only one of many incidents like this
.

Examples.....?

Vertakill wrote: »

and the black guys involved have admitted themselves that it was racially provoked (by playing the race card).
.

"black" guy plays race card to claim provocation...how does that equate to the actual attack on the white guy being racially motivated?

Vertakill · 11-07-2011 09:30PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

If it comes out in the trial that they were running through the streets yelling "Let's kill the white people" or something of the like, then I agree that it was disturbing.

Ok let's not get ridiculous here... is that how extreme we have to go before you'll believe this was racially motivated? Very silly.

southsiderosie wrote: »

However, on any given night, 99.9% of the people in Temple Bar ARE GOING TO BE WHITE. So if you have a pack of people out who just want to cause havoc, and they go to Temple Bar, the victims of that havoc are going to be WHITE. Most of the residents, tourists, and patrons of Dublin city center are white. That's why until there are further, more credible details, it seems premature to immediately label this a 'white hate crime' since pretty much everyone IS white.

While your numbers are... somewhat accurate... you're glossing over the fact that some black guys robbed a white guys bag and lured him into an alleyway to beat him within inches of his life.
This wasn't some sort of chance affair. This had to be considered pre-meditated.

What exactly are your thoughts on this? Wrong place, wrong time? Complete coincidence that the direction the robber ran with the bag happened to be into a gang of other black guys, who just coincidentally happened to have bats and other weapons on them?
Or am I completely off base here?

Vertakill · 11-07-2011 09:34PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

They played the race card, but not in the way you are claiming they did - they did not admit to doing anything because they wanted to beat up some white people; they tried to pull the 'coz I is black' card. Different card, and not really the same deck.

You're more than entitled to your opinion and I can see where you're coming from.
However, I don't agree.
Unless the DJ was the bravest/stupidest guy in the world, I have my doubts he provoked a gang of black guys.

And even if he DID provoke them, does that condone what they did?
No it doesn't. So we're back to the issue about our lovely guests punishment.

@Nodin: I've more or less answered everything you've asked in my posts so don't feel like repeating it.

Taken from here

Gardai say they believe up to four men were involved in the incident. All four are black and are thought to be in their late teens to early 20s. One of these men was wearing a red jacket, while a second was described as wearing a waistcoat-type top over a white t-shirt.

Then, a while later:

Gardaí say they believe up to four men were involved in the incident. All four are thought to be in their late teens to early 20s. One of these men was wearing a red jacket, while a second was described as wearing a waistcoat-type top over a white t-shirt.

How many other incidents have been brushed under the carpet since October, I wonder?

EarlERizer · 11-07-2011 09:37PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Have you ever thought about why that might be?

Social life in Ireland revolves around drinking. Heavy drinking.

If you are Muslim, and you don't drink, socializing is basically impossible.

If you are Southern European, and you only have a drink or two when you go out, socializing is very difficult because you are expected to buy (expensive) rounds with everyone else, and then sit there while your Irish colleagues get ****faced (and annoyed with you for not having six pints).

If you are Eastern European and make 10/hour, there is no way you are going to the pub; you are going to Lidl and stocking up so you can party at home. Plus, your English may not be too great, and it is much easier to socialize in your native language.

In all of these cases, it simply makes sense for these people to 'stick to their own', or at a minimum hang out with other foreigners who don't get/don't like Irish drinking culture. It doesn't mean that they don't like Ireland, or the opportunities they have there, but they just prefer to socialize differently. I don't understand why that is such a big issue, but I guess some people won't be happy until Ahmed can down 10 pints a night and belt out "The Jug of Punch" while wearing an Aran jumper :rolleyes:.

southsiderosie wrote: »

LOL, I never went into Temple Bar when I lived in Dublin because it was full of drunken hen/stag parties and local scangers around the perimeter. And the vast, vast majority of these people were whites from Ireland or the UK.

Also, as a non-white person, I can think of maybe three occasions in six months where I was not the ONLY non-white person in a pub in Dublin City Center. So pardon me if I think your fears about hoards of darkies taking over are misplaced. :pac:

Are you Racist? your generalising stereotyping is at best,cheap! and then trying to imply another poster is racist towards 'darkies' as you put it,The cheek of you! you should get someone to have a look at that chip residing on your shoulder!

Terry · 11-07-2011 09:38PM

Not going to read the whole thread, but I will say this:

This is what happens when ghettoes are allowed to form, or are formed by governments (as is the case here).

We're a fairly insular country with very few black people living here until recently.
A lot of the black people living here are refugees. The government (that would be the last one (under FF)), in their infinite wisdom, decided that it would be a good idea to house hundreds of African refugees together in the North inner city.

So like any city suddenly populated by foreigners, the locals were not comfortable.
Some of the refugees decided to open up shops catering to their own specific tastes, and the locals did not feel welcome in these shops.
Then you have gangs of the refugees hanging out together, which made the locals feel intimidated.

The local scumbags threw racial slurs towards the refugees. Some of them were kids.
These kids grew up resenting the locals and decided that it would be a good idea to attack any vulnerable white people they could get their hands on.

I would like to congratulate past Irish governments for failing to see what has happened across the world when ghettos are created.
All they needed to do was to attempt to get the refugees to integrate. Instead they lumped them all together and made the same mistake that every other Western country has made over the years.

Ghettos isolate foreign cultures from local ones. The locals then wonder why the immigrants are not integrating.

Come to Ireland and live with our customs. Don't try to impose your ways on us. Integrate with us, and there will be very few problems.
It doesn't help when the government create ghettos.

Nodin · 11-07-2011 09:39PM

Vertakill wrote: »

While your numbers are... somewhat accurate... you're glossing over the fact that some black guys robbed a white guys bag and lured him into an alleyway to beat him within inches of his life.
This wasn't some sort of chance affair. This had to be considered pre-meditated.

What exactly are your thoughts on this? Wrong place, wrong time? Complete coincidence that the direction the robber ran with the bag happened to be into a gang of other black guys, who just coincidentally happened to have bats and other weapons on them?
Or am I completely off base here?

I'd suggest you reread the article in the OP....that version there bears little relation to it.

Nodin · 11-07-2011 09:40PM

Vertakill wrote: »

.......

How many other incidents have been brushed under the carpet since October, I wonder?

It's a conspiracy now, is it?

Vertakill · 11-07-2011 09:41PM

Nodin wrote: »

I'd suggest you reread the article in the OP....that version there bears little relation to it.

Nice dodging.

Nodin wrote: »

It's a conspiracy now, is it?

Do you always answer questions with more questions and try to avoid committing yourself at all counts?

I said nothing about a conspiracy. I did, however, say in another post that the Irish are afraid to just call a spade a spade, for fear of being called racists.

You have, again, dodged another major point. Unless you're willing to contribute here, please don't direct your replies at me.

Nodin · 11-07-2011 09:43PM

Vertakill wrote: »

Nice dodging.

Its not a dodge. They didn't "lure" anyone, and nowhere does it either state or imply that. Of course you might prove I am going blind by quoting the appropriate section that I've missed..........

Vertakill · 11-07-2011 09:45PM

Nodin wrote: »

Its not a dodge. They didn't "lure" anyone, and nowhere does it either state or imply that. Of course you might prove I am going blind by quoting the appropriate section that I've missed..........

Maybe they didn't have the ability to interview the guy that had his head smashed in and was having surgery while they were writing up that article initially?

But well done, you've avoided responding to the bit about the media glossing over major details to protect violent minorities.

Nodin · 11-07-2011 09:48PM

Vertakill wrote: »

Maybe they didn't have the ability to interview the guy that had his head smashed in while they were writing up that article initially?.

The article was written in July 2011 and refers to an incident in October 2010.

Are you saying theres information that confirms your version of events? Do please link.

Vertakill wrote: »

But well done, you've avoided responding to the bit about the media glossing over major details.

Being "black" is not a major detail. For most of us, at least.

EarlERizer · 11-07-2011 09:51PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

If it comes out in the trial that they were running through the streets yelling "Let's kill the white people" or something of the like, then I agree that it was disturbing.

Yeah because it's only a racially motivated attack if the perpetrators yell out who their intended victims are, much like with all those countless racial attacks been suffered by for example Africans whereby the perpetrators ran throught the streets yelling "lets kill the blacks" :rolleyes:

Is the fact that several people were assaulted by this gang not disturbing enough for you? or the fact that they attacked one guy like a pack of animals leaving him so severally beaten he required re-constructive surgery!

Sorry,but even here in our uncivilised drunken nation of unsociable inbreds what happened to that guy is disturbing!

Vertakill · 11-07-2011 09:53PM

Nodin wrote: »

The article was written in July 2011 and refers to an incident in October 2010.

Are you saying theres information that confirms your version of events? Do please link.

I'm basing this on the account of the DJ that was bet up. It's somewhere here in the thread.

Nodin wrote: »

Being "black" is not a major detail. For most of us, at least.

Funny. Don't try and spin the race thing on me here.
I'm all for equal rights for everyone. I don't go around beating up people of any colour in any country.... but if I did, I would expect to be punished severely.
This is not one rule for him and one rule for me. I would expect to be deported if I committed a crime this vicious and I absolutely expect these guys should be deported to. But they won't and we all know it.

When (as southsiderosie, inaccurately quoted) 99% of people in Ireland are white, referring to a person as 'black' is fairly beneficial when it comes to gaining information on the offender(s). But rather than using your brain and identifying that, you preferred to try take a cheap shot. You're showing your true 'colours' here.. :P

gbee · 11-07-2011 09:57PM

Nodin wrote: »

Being "black" is not a major detail. For most of us, at least.

You wouldn't have any figures to back this up I suppose. I't not like you to post bold statements of fact without proof.

jugger0 · 11-07-2011 09:58PM

They should hang them, makes me rage when Irish people are being attacked in their own country by people who shouldnt be here in the first place.

gbee · 11-07-2011 10:00PM

jugger0 wrote: »

, makes me rage when Irish people are being attacked in their own country by people who shouldnt be here in the first place.

I'm cutting up my sheet as I type, where's the tree, I'll be there.

citizen_p · 11-07-2011 10:00PM

Probly not even racism, just a group of scumbags fighting, I hate this whole race crime bullsh*t... no doubt they would of hit another black guy if he got involved...

Nodin · 11-07-2011 10:03PM

gbee wrote: »

You wouldn't have any figures to back this up I suppose. I't not like you to post bold statements of fact without proof.

I plead guilty to - unusually for me - presuming the best.

Nodin · 11-07-2011 10:05PM

Vertakill wrote: »

I'm basing this on the account of the DJ that was bet up. It's somewhere here in the thread.

I went through the thread earlier and didn't see anything like that. Having read your post there I went through the thread again and didn't see it either. According to the OP, yer man was battered when the fella he was chasing turned on him. So far, thats all the information here I can find.

Vertakill · 11-07-2011 10:09PM

Nodin wrote: »

I went through the thread earlier and didn't see anything like that. Having read your post there I went through the thread again and didn't see it either. According to the OP, yer man was battered when the fella he was chasing turned on him. So far, thats all the information here I can find.

Look harder.

Love the way you keep dodging points over and over as well by the way (referring to the multitude of comments I've made in recent posts that you have purposely avoided).
Makes for a great conversation. *grinds teeth*

EarlERizer · 11-07-2011 10:10PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

They played the race card, but not in the way you are claiming they did - they did not admit to doing anything because they wanted to beat up some white people; they tried to pull the 'coz I is black' card. Different card, and not really the same deck.

Potatoe - Potato :rolleyes: ........ or is it a card in a deck all on it's own? can only be used as a defence or justification by a particular race and inturn not be used against same?

Double Standards!

It's like the 'N' word , it can be used generously in certain genres of music by those of African,Carribean descent and in their general conversations in the street, in both derogatory & friendly terms but god forbid if anyone else uses the word be it in street slang or singing along to their favourite rapper.

or the proud 'muslim' giving it the large "coz i'm musslem innit" (seemingly the louder it's shouted the more innocent they are) when they're been asked to pipe down,move along,show their licence etc.......not too devout in their muslim ways when their sat in the local parks drinking cans and hanging out of little girls or in the nightclubs getting as pi$$ed as the drink loving Irish and chasing skirt!

Nodin · 11-07-2011 10:11PM

Vertakill wrote: »

Look harder.

.......but you're the one who is making the claim - the only one, I might add. You say you saw this account. It's down to you to back it up.

Race hate gang in Temple Bar orgy of violence [mod note #1]

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