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NO NO NO Schools have to include religion classes, forum told

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    #692
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    crucamim wrote: »
    Why do you want to ban religious instruction in schools? It it to make Catholic schools more welcoming to non-Catholics?

    P.S. I would have no quarrel with banning religious instruction in schools if that were accompanied by a change in the law giving Catholic schools an unqualified right to restrict admissions to the children of practising Catholics. And to employ only practising Catholics. That would provoke non-Catholics into establishing their own schools and leaving us alone.
    Why is it that the more serious adherents to your particular flavour of Christianity seem to need constant societal and legislative affirmation that your denomination is top dog?

    I remember someone on this forum saying that their opinion of genuine Catholics has gone through the floor since seeing the stuff their members post here, and I'd have to agree. You lads are godawful when it comes to PR.


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    #693
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    koth wrote: »
    to treat all children as equal within public schools. something which I'm well aware that you disagree with.

    I seriously doubt the government will ever introduce such sectarian admission and employment laws with regards to public schools.

    Catholics are allowed to set up private schools if they wish if they feel the need to hide away from other groups.

    Catholic schools are not public schools. Catholic schools are for Catholics.


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    #694
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    Pace2008 wrote: »

    Why is it that the more serious adherents to your particular flavour of Christianity seem to need constant societal and legislative affirmation that your denomination is top dog?

    Cathollics are not trying to hi-jack other people's schools. Merely trying to keep Catholic schools Catholic.


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    #695
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,753 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    crucamim wrote: »
    Catholic schools are not public schools. Catholic schools are for Catholics.

    Sorry but you continue to be wrong on this. If they are not public, then the government have been seriously remiss in providing public servants to private schools.

    Read up on the public school system please, as you keep making the same incorrect statements.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #696
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    crucamim wrote: »
    Cathollics are not trying to hi-jack other people's schools. Merely trying to keep Catholic schools Catholic.
    Over 90% our schools are currently under Catholic management, and under your proposed sectarian system, these schools will only admit and employ practising Catholics.

    Honestly, does this sound fair and reasonable to you?


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    #697
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Over 90% our schools are currently under Catholic management, and under your proposed sectarian system, these schools will only admit and employ practising Catholics.

    Honestly, does this sound fair and reasonable to you?

    If you are not a Catholic, the possessive adjective "our" is not an appropriate word for you to use in relation to the property of the Catholic Church. What is wrong with schools owned by the Catholic Church being under Catholic management? Why can you non-Catholics not establish your own schools - just as Catholics had to establish ours?


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    #698
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    koth wrote: »
    Sorry but you continue to be wrong on this. If they are not public, then the government have been seriously remiss in providing public servants to private schools.

    Teachers in Catholic schools are not public servants. They are employees of the school. And the same applies to Protestant schools. And to the Educate Together schools. And to Irish medium schools.


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    #699
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,753 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    crucamim wrote: »
    Teachers in Catholic schools are not public servants. They are employees of the school. And the same applies to Protestant schools. And to the Educate Together schools. And to Irish medium schools.

    they work in public schools and their wages are paid by the tax payer, this means they are public sector workers.

    if you ever watched the news, you would hear teachers being referred to as public sector workers.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #700
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,753 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    crucamim wrote: »
    If you are not a Catholic, the possessive adjective "our" is not an appropriate word for you to use in relation to the property of the Catholic Church. What is wrong with schools owned by the Catholic Church being under Catholic management? Why can you non-Catholics not establish your own schools - just as Catholics had to establish ours?

    because a sectarian school system is a bad system. plus the government has spent millions in building and maintaining the schools.

    the irish human rights commission has said that religious indoctrination has no place in the class room. they also state that sectarian employment practises should not be allowed.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #701
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Mistress 69 wrote: »
    Access all areas should be the case....now lets get back to schoolyard politics..
    Agreed. Access all areas = all schools secular. :)
    Mistress 69 wrote: »
    if there was a refferendum in the morning to ban religion classes in schools and it succeded, I have no doubt you would be very happy with that..... how about if the mummies and and daddies in the school yard voted to keep religion class going ..... ?:)
    I only care about moving religion class from school hours. Honestly, it's not that difficult to just do proper education during the day and allow RE to be taught after the bell to those whose parents want it.

    Using a word like "ban" only serves to get posters like crucamim circling the wagons.


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    #702
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    koth wrote: »
    they work in public schools and their wages are paid by the tax payer, this means they are public sector workers.

    Catholics pay tax. In addition, they pay over and above to part fund their schoolc. Why should they do that if they will have no more rights in those schools than non-Catholics?


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    #703
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    koth wrote: »
    because a sectarian school system is a bad system. plus the government has spent millions in building and maintaining the schools.

    the irish human rights commission has said that religious indoctrination has no place in the class room. they also state that sectarian employment practises should not be allowed.

    A sectarian school system is a good system as it keeps Catholic children and teachers safe from non-Catholics.

    The government has, indeed, spend millions of taxpayers' money part funding Catholic schools - and also part-funding non-Catholic schools. Those Catholic and Protestant schools were performing a public service, educating the children of their respective faiths, and so the money was well spend. If there had not been Catholic schools and Protestant schools, even more millions of taxpayers' money would have been spent totally funding State schools.

    As for the Lefties of the Irish Human rights Commission, they would need to learn that people of faith are also human.

    As for sectarian employment practices, why should any Catholic allow his child to be taught by an anti-Catholic? Would you compel Jews to allow their children to be taught by a Nazi?


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    #704
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,753 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    crucamim wrote: »

    Catholics pay tax. In addition, they pay over and above to part fund their schoolc. Why should they do that if they will have no more rights in those schools than non-Catholcis.

    no one is disputing catholics pay tax.

    the government pay more than the church with regards to building, maintaining and staffing the school.

    it's interesting to see that you see donating funds to a school to be pointless if you can't indoctrinate the kids.

    and there i was thinking educating kids was why catholics help out with the schools.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #705
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,753 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    crucamim wrote: »
    A sectarian school system is a good system as it keeps Catholic children and teachers safe from non-Catholics.
    your own words prove that it isn't.
    The government has, indeed, spend millions of taxpayers' money part funding Catholic schools - and also part-funding non-Catholic schools. Those Catholic and Protestant schools were performing a public service, educating the children of their respective faiths, and so the money was well spend. If there had not been Catholic schools and Protestant schools, even more millions of taxpayers' money would have been spent totally funding State schools.
    they were performing a public service, that would mean they are public schools!
    As for the Lefties of the Irish Human rights Commission, they would need to learn that people of faith are also human.
    point out where they said religious people weren't human? shame on them for wanting equality in the schools:rolleyes:
    As for sectarian employment practices, why should any Catholic allow his child to be taught by an anti-Catholic? Would you compel Jews to allow their children to be taught by a Nazi?
    i've never said i want catholics taught by anti-catholics.

    i want no indoctrination in public schools. thats all i've said on this thread.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #706
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    koth wrote: »

    it's interesting to see that you see donating funds to a school to be pointless if you can't indoctrinate the kids.

    and there i was thinking educating kids was why catholics help out with the schools.

    They help out because they want some control over the education of their own children. Likewise Protestants. Likewise Muslims. Please respect the right of parents to keep their children out of the clutches of undesireables.


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    #707
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,753 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    crucamim wrote: »
    They help out because they want some control over the education of their own children. Likewise Protestants. Likewise Muslims. Please respect the right of parents to keep their children out of the clutches of undesireables.

    so you are agreeing that the catholics aren't intersted in educating but in actuality they want to control the education? thankfully i don't know any catholics who share that daft concept.

    as to the comment about undesireables, that's just more sectarian BS which frankly deserves contempt and not respect.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Options
    #708
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    koth wrote: »

    i've never said i want catholics taught by anti-catholics.

    Indeed, you have not. But your demand that Catholics no longer have control over the education of their children indicates that you are not opposed to the children of Catholics being taught by anti-Catholics.


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    #709
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    koth wrote: »
    so you are agreeing that the catholics aren't intersted in educating but in actuality they want to control the education? thankfully i don't know any catholics who share that daft concept.

    Do you know any Catholics?


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    #710
    AhSureTisGrand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭AhSureTisGrand


    crucamim wrote: »
    Do you know any Catholics?

    Yes and they don't give a sh1te


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    #711
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    crucamim wrote: »
    Please respect the right of parents to keep their children out of the clutches of undesireables.
    Much the rationale behind religion-free schools.


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    #712
    CiaranMT
    Registered Users Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭CiaranMT


    robindch wrote: »
    Much the rationale behind religion-free schools.

    What he said.


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    #713
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    robindch wrote: »
    Much the rationale behind religion-free schools.

    And also for Catholic schools for Catholics.


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    #714
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    AhSureTisGrand wrote: »
    Yes and they don't give a sh1te

    Some Catholics might not care. Others do.


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    #715
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    crucamim wrote: »
    Some Catholics might not care. Others do.

    Those that do would appear to be in a minority. Not, that I'm trying to say that popularity should decide something.


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    #716
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    Malty_T wrote: »
    Those that do would appear to be in a minority. Not, that I'm trying to say that popularity should decide something.

    It does not matter whether practising Catholics (or Protestants) are 5% or 95% of the population. They still have a right to keep their children safe.


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    #717
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    crucamim wrote: »
    It does not matter whether practising Catholics (or Protestants) are 5% or 95% of the population. They still have a right to keep their children safe.

    Aye, ideally I would agree you. Unfortunately, in the ideal world the little pig could fly all the way home, Alas that is not this world.


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    #718
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,753 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    crucamim wrote: »
    Indeed, you have not. But your demand that Catholics no longer have control over the education of their children indicates that you are not opposed to the children of Catholics being taught by anti-Catholics.
    no it doesn't. i want all kids to be free from religious indoctrination, this also means i oppose the idea of a teacher instructing kids that the RCC is an evil organisation.
    so your statement is clearly false.
    crucamim wrote: »
    [
    Do you know any Catholics?
    I'm from a catholic family, with Catholic relatives and nearly all my friends are Catholic. not one of them support a sectarian school system.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #719
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    crucamim wrote: »
    They help out because they want some control over the education of their own children. Likewise Protestants. Likewise Muslims. Please respect the right of parents to keep their children out of the clutches of undesireables.
    You mean respect the right of catholic parents to keep their children in schools with a couple of resident old priests, some pictures of Jesus about and taught by publicly funded closet atheist/agnostic teachers?

    Because that's the faith school idea you're clinging on to. You don't even have a decent indoctrination system worth saving. Have you seen the religious/non-religious polls on the "younger" forums of Boards.ie?

    Elvis has left the building. And by Elvis, I mean any dream you have of the school system raising a new generation of sheep.


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    #720
    crucamim
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭crucamim


    Dades wrote: »

    You mean respect the right of catholic parents to keep their children in schools with a couple of resident old priests, some pictures of Jesus about and taught by publicly funded closet atheist/agnostic teachers?

    Yes, I want the right of parental choice to be respected. Catholic schools should have an unqualified right to sack any teacher who is not a practising Catholic and to reject any child whose parents are not practising Catholics.


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    #721
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    crucamim wrote: »
    Yes, I want the right of parental choice to be respected. Catholic schools should have an unqualified right to sack any teacher who is not a practising Catholic and to reject any child whose parents are not practising Catholics.
    Will these people be subject to occasional raids on their houses for contraceptives and the like? :)


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