NO NO NO Schools have to include religion classes, forum told

philologos

crucamim - You're the first person to seriously make me rethink my position on this. There is little more abhorrent to me than fencing different kids into different herds because of a decision that their parents may or may not have made.

This is why the position of the CofE bishop of Oxford appeals to me, but I don't see a huge problem with people learning about religion at a shared school as long as it is taught impartially.

Delirium

crucamim wrote: »

I am indeed.

care to share what evidence you base that claim on?

crucamim wrote: »

I did not know that Ireland receives large EU grants for its education systems. Nor did I know that it was receiving those grants on condition that it imposed anti-Catholic teachers on Catholic children or Jewish teachers on Muslim children or Muslim teachers on Jewish children. But I will assume that you are telling the truth. I think that, if membership of the EU requires Catholic children having to submit to the authority of anti-Catholic teachers, Ireland should withdraw from the EU.

P.S. I think that, regardless of what the EU does or does not do, Ireland should get out of it.

getz didn't say that, nor do the EU have such a policy.

youngmagee

crucamim wrote: »

Why should Catholic lose the right to be Catholics just because the country has become more multicultural?

You seem to be insinuating that wealthy Catholics who can afford private schools have a right to keep their children safe while poor Catholics who cannot afford private schools have no such rights.

I agree that Catholic's should not lose the right to be Catholics but it is never normally that simple as the separation of any group normally leads to problems like jealousy and misunderstanding which may lead to more anti-catholic sentiment. This is why I believe we need to learn religion impartially as we need to understand each other and you may not get that in a school of a single religion. Would it not be more productive to try and address the problem with anti-catholic teachers?

Dades

crucamim wrote: »

You seem to be insinuating that I am a liar.

You seem to be insinuating that we are undesirable.

I'd like to think my wife would disagree - and she's a catholic. :pac:

robindch

philologos wrote: »

I don't see a huge problem with people learning about religion at a shared school as long as it is taught impartially.

Which is what most (all?) A+A members are in favour of.

Genghiz Cohen

robindch wrote: »

Which is what most (all?) A+A members are in favour of.

Hope so.

robindch

Dades wrote: »

You seem to be insinuating that we are undesirable.

Well, to the Vatican, I'd say the average A+A poster is intensely undesirable since the unbelief tends to wear off on other people, causing them to stop supporting it too.

crucamim

koth wrote: »

getz didn't say that, nor do the EU have such a policy.

Sorry. I thought he did. Nor has he denied saying that the EU has such a policy.

crucamim

youngmagee wrote: »

Would it not be more productive to try and address the problem with anti-catholic teachers?

Yes, by keeping Catholic children out of their clutches.

crucamim

Dades wrote: »

you seem to be insinuating that we are undesirable.:pac:

If you are anti-Catholic, you most certainly are undesirable.

crucamim

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

What kind of person am I?

All I want is for everyone in the world to be treated fairly.

Also note: I said the church, not Catholic parents.

You did not state "Catholic parents" but that was implied by your post. If the Catholic schools did not receive funding from the State, they would have to increase the fees which they charge Catholic parents.

Perhaps, you would agree with my view that no school should receive funding from the State with Child Benefit being increased to enable parents to pay for the education of their children. That would put schools, and, be extension, teachers under the financial thumbs of the parents whose children they teach. That is where teachers properly belong - under the thumbs of parents.

crucamim

philologos wrote: »

There is little more abhorrent to me than fencing different kids into different herds because of a decision that their parents may or may not have made.

Some people think that. I do not.

Pace2008

crucamim wrote: »

Yes, by keeping Catholic children out of their clutches.

There are already measures in place to deal with anti-Catholics...and anti-Protestants, anti-Muslims, anti-Semites and anti-Polish. Teachers are not allowed discriminate against children abased on creed or colour.

I think part of the problem here is that you seem to view anti-Catholicism and non-Catholicism as interchangeable terms.

Knasher

crucamim wrote: »

Perhaps, you would agree with my view that no school should receive funding from the State with Child Benefit being increased to enable parents to pay for the education of their children. That would put schools, and, be extension, teachers under the financial thumbs of the parents whose children they teach. That is where teachers properly belong - under the thumbs of parents.

I don't think that would work for two reasons. Firstly you would have bad parents who would neglect their child's education in favour of other things they could do with that money. You could probably get around this one though by having the government earmark it for schools and having it only payable to the school of the parents choice.

The second problem is that it would be unfair to children in rural areas, where class size wouldn't be large enough to support schools if they were funded in this way. To get around this you would have to have the system as a facsimile of the current one.

Delirium

crucamim wrote: »

Sorry. I thought he did. Nor has he denied saying that the EU has such a policy.

why does he have to deny the existence of a fictional policy you just made up?

philologos

crucamim wrote: »

Some people think that. I do not.

Great, but we are talking about the State education system. Ultimately the people who disagree with you on this thread have a voice in respect to how they will lobby their TD's in respect to the education system.

Inevitably a number of RCC schools will be brought under State patronage in the coming years. Inevitably future schools that are built will be more representative of demand.

What I am equally sure of is that I have never seen a better display or paranoia and outright suspicion of ones neighbours as you have exhibited on this thread.

crucamim

philologos wrote: »

Inevitably a number of RCC schools will be brought under State patronage in the coming years. Inevitably future schools that are built will be more representative of demand.

I hope that the Catholic bishops will drive a hard bargain before any schools owned by the Catholic church are handed over to the State or to any other body. I hope that the Catholic bishops insist on a Concordat with the State:-

a) giving Catholic schools an unqualified right to restrict admissions to the children of practising Catholics; and

b) giving Catholic schools the right to employ only practising Catholics;and

c) guaranteeing Catholic children, living in the catchment area of the former Catholic school, free transport to the nearest Catholic school.

crucamim

philologos wrote: »

What I am equally sure of is that I have never seen a better display or paranoia and outright suspicion of ones neighbours as you have exhibited on this thread.

Did you mean "display of paranoia"?

Life has made me this way.

philologos

crucamim wrote: »

Yes, by keeping Catholic children out of their clutches.

Yes I meant display of paranoia. The above quote is a reason why. This is the type of thinking that can destroy societies.

pljudge321

crucamim wrote: »

I hope that the Catholic bishops will drive a hard bargain before any schools owned by the Catholic church are handed over to the State or to any other body. I hope that the Catholic bishops insist on a Concordat with the State:-

a) giving Catholic schools an unqualified right to restrict admissions to the children of practising Catholics; and

b) giving Catholic schools the right to employ only practising Catholics;and

c) guaranteeing Catholic children, living in the catchment area of the former Catholic school, free transport to the nearest Catholic school.

I'm gonna go ahead and call Poe's Law on this one.

crucamim

philologos wrote: »

Yes I meant display of paranoia. The above quote is a reason why. This is the type of thinking that can destroy societies.

Paranoia? Can you prove that they are not out to get us?

philologos

crucamim wrote: »

Paranoia? Can you prove that they are not out to get us?

Need I say any more?

CerebralCortex

crucamim wrote: »

Did you mean "display of paranoia"?

Life has made me this way.

There are professionals that can help.

crucamim

philologos wrote: »

Need I say any more?

I fear that you are beyond redemption.

Pace2008

crucamim wrote: »

Paranoia? Can you prove that they are not out to get us?

With this comment, the label with which I'd describe you has shifted from "Old-style Catholic who believes his/her denomination be exalted above all others" to "Deep-cover liberal."

Burgo

Pace2008 wrote: »

With this comment, the label with which I'd describe you has shifted from "Old-style Catholic who believes his/her denomination be exalted above all others" to "Deep-cover liberal."

or greatest troll ever?

crucamim

Pace2008 wrote: »

With this comment, the label with which I'd describe you has shifted from "Old-style Catholic who believes his/her denomination be exalted above all others" to "Deep-cover liberal."

I hope that you are not insinuating that I am soft on heretics.

liamw

This one's for you crucamim

getz

liamw wrote: »

This one's for you crucamim

in ireland its all very embarrassing,the united nations committee on the elimination of racist and discrimination[CERD] have been monitoring irelands record on the issue at meetings from 14th feb to 11th march,in the last report on ireland in 2005,the [CERD]told ireland to establish more non religious schools to ensure pupils are no longer discriminated against.because the vast majority of irish schools are privately owned and mananged,many non catholic children have no local access to schools.

MrPudding

pljudge321 wrote: »

I'm gonna go ahead and call Poe's Law on this one.

Was thinking that myself...

MrP