Flue Liner for Stove?

hi, thinking of a stove myself , olymberyl olive stove and like you not sure if i should put a liner in flue , i've built a few chimneys for stoves and the guys that own the house didn't line the flue . haven't heard of any trouble from these chimneys yet maybe they're not in long enough time will tell , not putting liner in myself down to money , have to take a chance , some will tell u it's better to line the flue , sales man , because the flue doesn't be as warm with a stove then u get the built up of tar , its like every think , u have to go down that road to find out.

sinjim wrote: »

Hi everyones right mi flues are the best we use them here in Cliffords Fireplaces all the time, very helpfull effecient etc.
I wouldn't imagine you would need a flexi though, if you have never used the chimney it should be in good order, but could be best to carry out a smoke test first just to ensure no leakage.
Cheers

Hi, was looking into getting a stove myself but recently put off by possible need to reline chimney(mines about ten years old),how could i do or get done the "smoke test".Havent heard of it before! and is there any other checks i should or could do?

O my where to start
You've a couple incorrect there yourself rpmcs
No where in any stove manual or any stove manufactorer technical department does it say or will they recommend the continuation of flue up the entire lenght of the chimney
In saying this rpmcs is correct ''Best practice'' would be to reline a chimney.
A stove functioning properly will suffeciently warm an 8'' flue to eleminate the problem of gases mixing with cold air on leaving the 5 or 6 inch flue, and even if it didn't there is no possible way of anything spilling onto the stove if it is installed properly.
The efficency of a stove is not affected by the differing in size of flue, although quoted effeciencies by companies are achived in laboritory conditions and in reality may be far lower.
The room must be vented, doesn't have to be near the stove though .
A standard 8'' flue is no easier cleaned than a say 5'' flexi liner
Im sure i've missed some stuff but sure there you go
rpmcs bang on about the down draught
ddouble im just not really sure, your kind of all over the place and half right in some things
But sure lets keep the debate going lads

sorry sin jim,
But many of the stove manuals will say to reline, most common to all would be stanley and i would not say there best stoves out there,

But in any case if you dont reline how would you go about fitting flue with out flueliner correctly??
if you dont reline and use some sort of adaptor, you get an upside down joint going from spigot of stove to inside clay pot,(building regs/insurance??) would be very unusual to be able to get adapter to go around outside clay flue, in some chimney systems this is possible,Schiedel is one that springs to mind,



Of course you should have your chimney cleaned min once a year,
but in very cold chimneys that are not relined a cold pocket does cause build up of tar/soot at that point where normal brushing will not clean, and i dont think every cleaner is going to scrape away this,

So my point was, if you reline with flexi and back fill with vermiculite you will have less chance of this,

Hi rpmcs
Most stove manuals offer relineing as an option for fitting amongst several othe options, some do say as you said it would be best practice to reline but most times its not financially or technically viable, why should people spend and extra 400-500 to reline a chimney when its not needed, plus have you ever installed a 6 inch flexi liner down an 8 inch chimney then tried to back fill it! nightmare
Again the cold chimney thing just does not happen be it in the centre of the house gable end wall or anywhere else once the stove is operational it will heat the chimney sufficently.
there is a couple of different ways of installing without a flexi and there not unusual and have no affect on reg's insurance etc
1 Stanley now supply an adaptor of 8 to 5 inch as standard with there Cara insert for installation http://www.waterfordstanley.com/1752.htm ( Dont think stanley is the best myself but for availability of parts down the line there probably a safer bet than most), also standard 8 to 6 inch adaptors are commomly available.
2 second option, come off the top of your stove with the 5 or 6 inch rigid to just inside the first flue liner seal around with rockwool and firecement, reach up inside the rigid and also seal the top with firecement making sure to flaunch it downwards so anything that comes down the flue comes into the stove.
3 Probably the most awkward, coming off the back of your stove, firstly for anyone reading NEVER use a 90 degree straight from your stove, destroys the draw. i'll assume everyones familiar with building reg's hearth size's, distance to combustables and air movement
Build up your chimney ope to just under the point where the rigid leaves the back of the stove,cut your flue to size normally 10-14 inches again flaunch around the pipe so anything that comes down will be in the pipe, continue and completely block of your fire opening so all thats left is the rigid pipe protruding, leave to set then push your stove onto the pipe seal with fire cement, for cleaning simply remove the stove and brush and scrape as normal, As every professional cleaner should do as part of the cleaning process.and if they dont people should ask why they haven't
All the above fitting methods to the best of my knowledge have been in place for years
and fingers crossed touch wood and all that, no problems as of yet .
Interestingly many county councils are now installing stoves of one type or another and all the above methods of fitting are acceptable and in many cases where a lining is not possible they are considered standard practice

oh sinJim,
if your going to give information please give proper advice!
not going over it all but some I can't let go unchecked!
stove company's want to sell stoves so there not going to demand you put flue liner in, cause as long as they cover themselves they feel fine, won't be there to talk to the insurance man!
,



and as I said adaptor's or shoving a pipe a few inches up the chimney is, no matter how you dress it up with bloody cheery's on top, is still an upside joint, to explain cause you seem to miss the point is starting at stove.... pipe goes into spigot, and next section of flue pipe goes in to top of that one, so if you have condensation running down pipe it will run into stove and not onto walls etc

It's there in building reg's and insurance man will tell you if you call him!
But hopefully we don't need to call him ever!
As I said its always best practise, but I have no problem fitting stoves both ways as long as Joe blogges is aware of both and let him make his own decision!

can you explain that one so, if flue pipe is made with male and female sections clearly made for male pointing down and into wider female section, how can you say adaptor is fine?
what i would say it may work fine in many places but just to be aware flexi is best practice,

it was only in last few months a man asked me to take out a stove a builder put in with adapter, condensation was running back down around flue adapter and splashing stove and wall, he had rain cowl, but it was only as it was lit it happened, builder had tried few different things as sealing with high temp silicone ect,
he had enough and wanted stove out,
liner down and problem solved,,,

so there is a reason why best practice is liner is needed in some cases... so best practice in my opinion,

You can have all the experience in the world and i applaud you for doing courses, if thats what your looking for!

i have plenty done myself but not looking for medals,
so to get my point as you seem not to answer direct questions is this...

if some one askes me to install a stove i tell them best practice is to reline chimney and it will leave no problems or if they are looking at the extra €300-400 being over there budget, then the adapter method in most cases works fine.

My question was about adaptor..
as in document j says all wider joints face upwards for condensation, how does adaptor comply facing upwards into wider flue??

that would be part of it

yeah so is adapter not opposite to this?

sorry didn't really explain that clearly

there 2 seperate subjects in the regs forget the clay liner
imagine the adaptor sitting on top of a rigid piece of fuel leaving the stove
the socket is pointing upward therefor complys