How did the word/phrase "on" or "for him" in relation to pregnancy & periods

amdublin · 25-06-2011 08:25AM #1

Okay confusing title! Let me try explain using examples! (there ws not enough room for full title either, I jad to leave the words at the end out - come about)

In the past it seemed that women used to say "druring my pregnancy" but now it seems a lot of women now say say "on my pregnancy"?
What's with that. Like you are not literally on anything you are instead going through pregnancy.

Same with "having my period". This now seems to regularly be referred to "on my period".

Cast your mind back ten/fifteen years. Would you agree your/some women's "phrasing/descriptions" have changed? Why is this??

Finally!
And this really really irks me
When people are talking about a woman who is pregnant and reeferring to the father I hear ALOT of people say "she is having the baby for xxxx" ie he is the father of the baby.

I am sorry! But this really p!sses me off. We are not machines here to facilitate men who put in orders for babies.

Surely if you are having a baby it should be referred to as "she is having a baby with xxx" not for!!! If the lady is not with the baby father than definitely the phrase "for" should not be used. Probably something like "xxxxx is the father of their baby".

Does anyone else find this "having a baby for someone" phrase hugely insulting and degrading?

mrsdewinter · 25-06-2011 08:36AM

'Having a baby for' somebody??? Are you kidding? I haven't heard that for years... 'On my period' - meh, doesn't bother me that much. Haven't heard 'on my pregnancy' that much - but that having a baby *for*... whoever is saying that needs to jump in their time machine and head back to Seventies-era Laurel Canyon...

amdublin · 25-06-2011 08:42AM

mrsdewinter wrote: »

'Having a baby for' somebody??? Are you kidding? I haven't heard that for years... 'On my period' - meh, doesn't bother me that much. Haven't heard 'on my pregnancy' that much - but that having a baby *for*... whoever is saying that needs to jump in their time machine and head back to Seventies-era Laurel Canyon...

You would think wouldn't you?!

To me it actually seems more popular to say it now then in the 70's.
And it seems to be younger women (twenties, early thirties) who use this phrase more frequently as well.

metrovelvet · 25-06-2011 09:58AM

I've heard a lot of Irish people say for and on when it comes to pregnancy.

I never found it degrading, just put it down to a misuse of prepositions.

It is weird though. So is the expression 'I fell pregnant,' another one I've only heard in Ireland.

Callan57 · 25-06-2011 10:09AM

metrovelvet wrote: »

I've heard a lot of Irish people say for and on when it comes to pregnancy.

I never found it degrading, just put it down to a misuse of prepositions.

It is weird though. So is the expression 'I fell pregnant,' another one I've only heard in Ireland.

Can't say I've ever heard the 'on' or 'for' in relation to pregnancy or menstruation ... perhaps it's an affectation unique to a particular area.

What really annoys me is the 'when we were pregnant' or 'when we were in labour' ... such bull for God's sake only the woman was pregnant or went through the labour!

Ickle Magoo · 25-06-2011 10:15AM

Having a period, on their period, meh, it's just phraseology, as metro says prepositions. I have to say I don't really care how other women choose to describe their menstruating...and on their period has to be a step up from all the coy euphemisms that used to be more common place.

I've never heard anyone say they are having a baby for somebody else, so not sure what to make of that...pretty strange. As for "we" being pregnant or in labour - meh, some couples view it as a joint experience, clearly they are playing different roles but that isn't say each don't play their part.

doctorwhogirl · 25-06-2011 10:17AM

I think the whole "fell" pregnant in Ireland prob stems from the whole "Fallen woman" angle we had going in the mega catholic times. :rolleyes::mad:

metrovelvet · 25-06-2011 10:22AM

doctorwhogirl wrote: »

I think the whole "fell" pregnant in Ireland prob stems from the whole "Fallen woman" angle we had going in the mega catholic times. :rolleyes::mad:

Yes it doesn't sit well. It denotes pregnancy as some kind of descent, but at the same time maybe it is an honest demarkation of the automatic demotion that comes with motherhood. [Naomi Wolf talks about this in her book "Misconceptions."]

Ickle Magoo · 25-06-2011 10:23AM

When I hear fell pregnant it makes me think of an unfortunate landing from a trip...

metrovelvet · 25-06-2011 10:24AM

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

When I hear fell pregnant it makes me think of an unfortunate landing from a trip...

Lol. yeah...something like that alright...:pac:

chughes · 25-06-2011 10:25AM

My guess is that it's a literal translation from the Irish language. Hiberno English has many examples of this type of language usage.

Wibbs · 25-06-2011 10:41AM

doctorwhogirl wrote: »

I think the whole "fell" pregnant in Ireland prob stems from the whole "Fallen woman" angle we had going in the mega catholic times. :rolleyes::mad:

Or maybe a sidelining of responsibility for the result of gettin busy? Makes it sound like an accident.

metrovelvet · 25-06-2011 10:48AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Or maybe a sidelining of responsibility for the result of gettin busy? Makes it sound like an accident.

Im more likely to think its about descent, like the fall of adam of eve, the fortunate fall as they call it.

But also it could be a hangover from English that was used before birthcontrol, where pregnancy really was a roll of the dice.

spurious · 25-06-2011 11:27AM

She fell sick, he fell victim to thieves, they fell asleep.
All these things befell them all.

It's a hangover from English's German origins.

neuro-praxis · 25-06-2011 12:08PM

Is it not actually linked to the intrinsic passivity of the Irish language? (I'm talking about the term "fell pregnant" rather than the part about having a baby "for" someone, which is ridiculous.)

iguana · 25-06-2011 12:12PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Or maybe a sidelining of responsibility for the result of gettin busy? Makes it sound like an accident.

But it is also used occasionally by women who are actively trying to get pregnant. I think maybe it's to denote the element of chance. You can do everything right, be perfectly fertile, take all your supplements, have sex for days on and around the ovulation, prop a pillow under your hips, orgasm after ejaculation to create a suction in the cervix to pull the sperm up, and then lie there with your hips slightly elevated for half an hour, eat pineapple cores for 3 days afterwards but still not get pregnant for months and months. To some extent getting pregnant is out of your physical control, so I do suspect that it's some hiberno-english way of clarifying that there is an element of luck/bad luck to getting pregnant.

Acoshla · 25-06-2011 12:18PM

I've never in my life heard somebody say the having a baby "for" thing, ever. And I would say if I did ever hear it I would assume it was just bad phrasing or related to old Irish. Like I said I've never heard it but it sounds like something my Nan would say. For example I still know a lot of women in their 50's/60's living in my home village who have the same first names but are referred to with their father's name following it, (ie Maureen Tom). It was just to distinguish between girls with the same first name's from different families who often had the same surnames also (cousins, common names in small localities), but nowadays people would go mad assuming it was purely to show ownership of the daughter by her father.

And I honestly don't think there's anything in the use of the word "on", in relation to these things, it's just a phrase, no degrading meaning for women hidden in it

But the "We're pregnant" sh*t really annoys me, she's pregnant, we/ye are having a baby. Pregnant: (of a woman or female animal) Having a child or young developing in the uterus. The father is not pregnant and I find it odd when they describe it as such.

25-06-2011 01:19PM

I have heard "she's pregnant for him" and it's just...

Logical Fallacy · 25-06-2011 01:22PM

Found the below as i was casting about for information. It's basically a flawed opinion piece but does contain one or two interesting facts.

Personally i think a number of the examples of it's uses share basic similarities (normally to do with a physical issue : "Fell ill" etc ) but i think the automatic assumption of it being a blame placing construct is flawed.

"Fall" outside of it's literal term is normally used to describe an alteration of state, from one to another. The best example i can think of would be "to fall in love".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3626615/How-words-fall-pregnant-with-the-possibility-of-being-twisted.html

I have been casting around for the origins of the term. The Oxford English Dictionary gives an isolated usage in 1722, to describe the predicament of some foolish girl. It then emerges at the end of the 19th century - the golden age of euphemism - to reflect the misfortunes that, in an age before contraception, sometimes occurred to pretty under-housemaids who had attracted too much attention from the Young Master. In that context, everybody understood what it meant: "She was poor, but she was honest,/Victim of the squire's whim," and so on. The outcome was not to be discussed in polite society, and probably not that widely even in impolite. Once the inevitable had been confronted, arrangements were made, and much was brushed under the carpet. "Fall" itself suggested that the girl concerned may not have been entirely in control of her destiny; and its Miltonic resonances also supplied a suitably moral commentary for the act.
The meaning of the term, however, has altered greatly since the advent of the welfare state. Girls or women now "fall pregnant" in much the same way that any of us "falls" ill. Unlike in the past, there is no badge of shame. Indeed, in its apparently blithe statement of fact, there is the purpose of distancing the faller as far as possible from shame, or indeed from the act of conception, as possible. There is an attempt to create a casual impression of randomness, or of an act of God. Just as one might be sitting on a train, or in the audience at a cinema, or queueing up in a shop, and be visited by the germs for a common cold or flu, so one might just as accidentally be visited by pregnancy.

Truley · 25-06-2011 01:45PM

I can understand the 'we're having a baby' phrase. If a guy says 'I going to have a baby' it's usually met with a sarky response pointing out that he can't have the baby blah blah blah when it's quite obvious what he means. 'My girlfriend is having a baby' doesn't quite cut it either, the message is that his partner is specifically having his baby. Or that he and his partner are having a baby together. I think it's a perfectly acceptable phrase.

premierlass · 25-06-2011 02:41PM

Truley wrote: »

I can understand the 'we're having a baby' phrase. If a guy says 'I going to have a baby' it's usually met with a sarky response pointing out that he can't have the baby blah blah blah when it's quite obvious what he means. 'My girlfriend is having a baby' doesn't quite cut it either, the message is that his partner is specifically having his baby. Or that he and his partner are having a baby together. I think it's a perfectly acceptable phrase.

The one that gets me is "we're pregnant" which I hear a lot from America. I'm not going to say that it denies the role of the woman in giving birth, because I really don't think that's the intention, but it's ridiculous. I just don't understand why people don't use the "we're having a baby" phrase instead, which says all that is needful.

metrovelvet · 25-06-2011 04:42PM

premierlass wrote: »

The one that gets me is "we're pregnant" which I hear a lot from America. I'm not going to say that it denies the role of the woman in giving birth, because I really don't think that's the intention, but it's ridiculous. I just don't understand why people don't use the "we're having a baby" phrase instead, which says all that is needful.

I cant stand it either, for it's inaccuracy to start with. The sentimental crock of **** is the second part of it I can't stand. The third part of it I can't stand, is nt only what you mention, but congratulations, not only are you pregnant but your husband is now a eunach.

cdaly_ · 25-06-2011 09:58PM

premierlass wrote: »

The one that gets me is "we're pregnant"

From a guy's POV, I understand the usage completely. She's growing the baby, I'm making tea, fetching pillows, shopping for aubergines at 4 in the morning etc etc...

The rest of the phrases I don't get. One I heard was

"Hey X, give me a baby..."

goose2005 · 25-06-2011 10:14PM

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Is it not actually linked to the intrinsic passivity of the Irish language? (I'm talking about the term "fell pregnant" rather than the part about having a baby "for" someone, which is ridiculous.)

A related thin - did you ever notice that all the 'rude' verbs for sex are transitive - f--k, shag, ride, etc. - but the 'polite' terms are intransitive - sleep with, make love to, etc.

iguana · 25-06-2011 11:16PM

cdaly_ wrote: »

give me a baby..."

That one probably originates from times when people didn't understand reproductive biology and common assumption in some societies was that the "baby" was in the man's sperm and the woman just incubated it after he put it there during sex. It's one of the reasons for the practice of agnatic succession, especially common in Salic Law, where all heirs must be from the direct male line and a females or descendants through females are discounted. (That and to keep English king, Edward III, off the French throne.)

It could also be where the phrase "having a baby for him" comes from, though I've never heard that phrase myself.

The Princess Bride · 25-06-2011 11:53PM

The only time I ever heard the expression 'pregnant for' was in The Snapper when Sharon Curley told her friends she was pregnant-one of them asked 'who are ya having it for?'.

As for periods- I'd like to think the years of saying 'I have my friend' or 'aunt sally' is long gone. How embarrassing was that.:o

Everything is over analysed nowadays-( even the over analysing)

raveni · 26-06-2011 12:13AM

Never heard the "having a baby for xxxx" phrase either, to me it sounds funny more than anything, almost as if it's suggesting he could actually have had the baby himself if he'd wanted to or that you're not keen on having it yourself. You'd say something like "I'm cleaning the car for xxxx" or "I'm looking after the dog for xxxx", it seems a bit self-deprecating to say "I'm having a baby for xxxx" but maybe I'm reading into it too much.

"On my pregnancy" sounds weird too to me, I would associate "on my" with "on my period" which I'd see as a normal phrase, I guess that is just something that has changed, I've never really heard "having my period". "On my pregnancy" though sounds both like you're saying it's the only one you're going to/wanted to have (fair enough of course) or that it's a regular thing the way a period is.

JuliusCaesar · 26-06-2011 12:17AM

"Falling" pregnant, and having a baby "for" him, were both expressions I first heard in London in the 70s. They hadn't been used in Ireland. They were both expressions used by the working class (or whatever that socio-economic level is called now). I figured they arrived here via soaps and Chat magazine... Still don't really hear it in the more middle-classes.

Used also drive me nuts in England to hear the midwives talk about the "Mummies". What's wrong with Mothers???? Then I found the same happening here. I used always ignore them, or if in a good mood correct them - don't blinkin' call me a mummy just because I'm pregnant! You know my name, it's on the chart. And if referring to the category of female parents, call us 'mothers' for heavens sake.

premierlass · 26-06-2011 03:59AM

Having a baby "by" someone* is a phrase that seems to be used fairly widely. I wonder where it originally comes from.

*interestingly, it's used both ways - more commonly, a woman having a baby by a man, but also a man having a baby by a woman

sam34 · 26-06-2011 09:15AM

I've often heard " having a baby for..." but also where I'm from people say " to" eg " she had a child to him", which I think is quite strange.

another common one here is " when I was pregnant on my first baby"... to me it makes no sense and it should be " pregnant with"

Blush_01 · 26-06-2011 09:49AM

The only time I've heard the "on my pregnancy" thing was in an "on my last pregnancy I craved fragments of rock dipped in petrol" kind of discussion. I've never heard it used in the context of describing a current pregnancy. I don't really see anything wrong with it.

As for the pregnant "for" someone thing, I have only heard that from people who would have had stereotypically working class backgrounds and who were from an urban background. I thought it was strange, but it's just phrasing imho.

How did the word/phrase "on" or "for him" in relation to pregnancy & periods

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