How did the word/phrase "on" or "for him" in relation to pregnancy & periods

amdublin

Okay confusing title! Let me try explain using examples! (there ws not enough room for full title either, I jad to leave the words at the end out - come about)

In the past it seemed that women used to say "druring my pregnancy" but now it seems a lot of women now say say "on my pregnancy"?
What's with that. Like you are not literally on anything you are instead going through pregnancy.

Same with "having my period". This now seems to regularly be referred to "on my period".

Cast your mind back ten/fifteen years. Would you agree your/some women's "phrasing/descriptions" have changed? Why is this??

Finally!
And this really really irks me
When people are talking about a woman who is pregnant and reeferring to the father I hear ALOT of people say "she is having the baby for xxxx" ie he is the father of the baby.

I am sorry! But this really p!sses me off. We are not machines here to facilitate men who put in orders for babies.

Surely if you are having a baby it should be referred to as "she is having a baby with xxx" not for!!! If the lady is not with the baby father than definitely the phrase "for" should not be used. Probably something like "xxxxx is the father of their baby".

Does anyone else find this "having a baby for someone" phrase hugely insulting and degrading?

mrsdewinter

'Having a baby for' somebody??? Are you kidding? I haven't heard that for years... 'On my period' - meh, doesn't bother me that much. Haven't heard 'on my pregnancy' that much - but that having a baby *for*... whoever is saying that needs to jump in their time machine and head back to Seventies-era Laurel Canyon...

amdublin

mrsdewinter wrote: »

'Having a baby for' somebody??? Are you kidding? I haven't heard that for years... 'On my period' - meh, doesn't bother me that much. Haven't heard 'on my pregnancy' that much - but that having a baby *for*... whoever is saying that needs to jump in their time machine and head back to Seventies-era Laurel Canyon...

You would think wouldn't you?!

To me it actually seems more popular to say it now then in the 70's.
And it seems to be younger women (twenties, early thirties) who use this phrase more frequently as well.

metrovelvet

I've heard a lot of Irish people say for and on when it comes to pregnancy.

I never found it degrading, just put it down to a misuse of prepositions.

It is weird though. So is the expression 'I fell pregnant,' another one I've only heard in Ireland.

Callan57

metrovelvet wrote: »

I've heard a lot of Irish people say for and on when it comes to pregnancy.

I never found it degrading, just put it down to a misuse of prepositions.

It is weird though. So is the expression 'I fell pregnant,' another one I've only heard in Ireland.

Can't say I've ever heard the 'on' or 'for' in relation to pregnancy or menstruation ... perhaps it's an affectation unique to a particular area.

What really annoys me is the 'when we were pregnant' or 'when we were in labour' ... such bull for God's sake only the woman was pregnant or went through the labour!

Ickle Magoo

Having a period, on their period, meh, it's just phraseology, as metro says prepositions. I have to say I don't really care how other women choose to describe their menstruating...and on their period has to be a step up from all the coy euphemisms that used to be more common place.

I've never heard anyone say they are having a baby for somebody else, so not sure what to make of that...pretty strange. As for "we" being pregnant or in labour - meh, some couples view it as a joint experience, clearly they are playing different roles but that isn't say each don't play their part.

doctorwhogirl

I think the whole "fell" pregnant in Ireland prob stems from the whole "Fallen woman" angle we had going in the mega catholic times. :rolleyes::mad:

metrovelvet

doctorwhogirl wrote: »

I think the whole "fell" pregnant in Ireland prob stems from the whole "Fallen woman" angle we had going in the mega catholic times. :rolleyes::mad:

Yes it doesn't sit well. It denotes pregnancy as some kind of descent, but at the same time maybe it is an honest demarkation of the automatic demotion that comes with motherhood. [Naomi Wolf talks about this in her book "Misconceptions."]

Ickle Magoo

When I hear fell pregnant it makes me think of an unfortunate landing from a trip...

metrovelvet

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

When I hear fell pregnant it makes me think of an unfortunate landing from a trip...

Lol. yeah...something like that alright...:pac:

chughes

My guess is that it's a literal translation from the Irish language. Hiberno English has many examples of this type of language usage.

Wibbs

doctorwhogirl wrote: »

I think the whole "fell" pregnant in Ireland prob stems from the whole "Fallen woman" angle we had going in the mega catholic times. :rolleyes::mad:

Or maybe a sidelining of responsibility for the result of gettin busy? Makes it sound like an accident.

metrovelvet

Wibbs wrote: »

Or maybe a sidelining of responsibility for the result of gettin busy? Makes it sound like an accident.

Im more likely to think its about descent, like the fall of adam of eve, the fortunate fall as they call it.

But also it could be a hangover from English that was used before birthcontrol, where pregnancy really was a roll of the dice.

spurious

She fell sick, he fell victim to thieves, they fell asleep.
All these things befell them all.

It's a hangover from English's German origins.

neuro-praxis

Is it not actually linked to the intrinsic passivity of the Irish language? (I'm talking about the term "fell pregnant" rather than the part about having a baby "for" someone, which is ridiculous.)

iguana

Wibbs wrote: »

Or maybe a sidelining of responsibility for the result of gettin busy? Makes it sound like an accident.

But it is also used occasionally by women who are actively trying to get pregnant. I think maybe it's to denote the element of chance. You can do everything right, be perfectly fertile, take all your supplements, have sex for days on and around the ovulation, prop a pillow under your hips, orgasm after ejaculation to create a suction in the cervix to pull the sperm up, and then lie there with your hips slightly elevated for half an hour, eat pineapple cores for 3 days afterwards but still not get pregnant for months and months. To some extent getting pregnant is out of your physical control, so I do suspect that it's some hiberno-english way of clarifying that there is an element of luck/bad luck to getting pregnant.

Acoshla

I've never in my life heard somebody say the having a baby "for" thing, ever. And I would say if I did ever hear it I would assume it was just bad phrasing or related to old Irish. Like I said I've never heard it but it sounds like something my Nan would say. For example I still know a lot of women in their 50's/60's living in my home village who have the same first names but are referred to with their father's name following it, (ie Maureen Tom). It was just to distinguish between girls with the same first name's from different families who often had the same surnames also (cousins, common names in small localities), but nowadays people would go mad assuming it was purely to show ownership of the daughter by her father.

And I honestly don't think there's anything in the use of the word "on", in relation to these things, it's just a phrase, no degrading meaning for women hidden in it

But the "We're pregnant" sh*t really annoys me, she's pregnant, we/ye are having a baby. Pregnant: (of a woman or female animal) Having a child or young developing in the uterus. The father is not pregnant and I find it odd when they describe it as such.

I have heard "she's pregnant for him" and it's just...

Logical Fallacy

Found the below as i was casting about for information. It's basically a flawed opinion piece but does contain one or two interesting facts.

Personally i think a number of the examples of it's uses share basic similarities (normally to do with a physical issue : "Fell ill" etc ) but i think the automatic assumption of it being a blame placing construct is flawed.

"Fall" outside of it's literal term is normally used to describe an alteration of state, from one to another. The best example i can think of would be "to fall in love".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3626615/How-words-fall-pregnant-with-the-possibility-of-being-twisted.html

I have been casting around for the origins of the term. The Oxford English Dictionary gives an isolated usage in 1722, to describe the predicament of some foolish girl. It then emerges at the end of the 19th century - the golden age of euphemism - to reflect the misfortunes that, in an age before contraception, sometimes occurred to pretty under-housemaids who had attracted too much attention from the Young Master. In that context, everybody understood what it meant: "She was poor, but she was honest,/Victim of the squire's whim," and so on. The outcome was not to be discussed in polite society, and probably not that widely even in impolite. Once the inevitable had been confronted, arrangements were made, and much was brushed under the carpet. "Fall" itself suggested that the girl concerned may not have been entirely in control of her destiny; and its Miltonic resonances also supplied a suitably moral commentary for the act.
The meaning of the term, however, has altered greatly since the advent of the welfare state. Girls or women now "fall pregnant" in much the same way that any of us "falls" ill. Unlike in the past, there is no badge of shame. Indeed, in its apparently blithe statement of fact, there is the purpose of distancing the faller as far as possible from shame, or indeed from the act of conception, as possible. There is an attempt to create a casual impression of randomness, or of an act of God. Just as one might be sitting on a train, or in the audience at a cinema, or queueing up in a shop, and be visited by the germs for a common cold or flu, so one might just as accidentally be visited by pregnancy.

Truley

I can understand the 'we're having a baby' phrase. If a guy says 'I going to have a baby' it's usually met with a sarky response pointing out that he can't have the baby blah blah blah when it's quite obvious what he means. 'My girlfriend is having a baby' doesn't quite cut it either, the message is that his partner is specifically having his baby. Or that he and his partner are having a baby together. I think it's a perfectly acceptable phrase.

premierlass

Truley wrote: »

I can understand the 'we're having a baby' phrase. If a guy says 'I going to have a baby' it's usually met with a sarky response pointing out that he can't have the baby blah blah blah when it's quite obvious what he means. 'My girlfriend is having a baby' doesn't quite cut it either, the message is that his partner is specifically having his baby. Or that he and his partner are having a baby together. I think it's a perfectly acceptable phrase.

The one that gets me is "we're pregnant" which I hear a lot from America. I'm not going to say that it denies the role of the woman in giving birth, because I really don't think that's the intention, but it's ridiculous. I just don't understand why people don't use the "we're having a baby" phrase instead, which says all that is needful.

metrovelvet

premierlass wrote: »

The one that gets me is "we're pregnant" which I hear a lot from America. I'm not going to say that it denies the role of the woman in giving birth, because I really don't think that's the intention, but it's ridiculous. I just don't understand why people don't use the "we're having a baby" phrase instead, which says all that is needful.

I cant stand it either, for it's inaccuracy to start with. The sentimental crock of **** is the second part of it I can't stand. The third part of it I can't stand, is nt only what you mention, but congratulations, not only are you pregnant but your husband is now a eunach.

cdaly_

premierlass wrote: »

The one that gets me is "we're pregnant"

From a guy's POV, I understand the usage completely. She's growing the baby, I'm making tea, fetching pillows, shopping for aubergines at 4 in the morning etc etc...

The rest of the phrases I don't get. One I heard was

"Hey X, give me a baby..."

goose2005

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Is it not actually linked to the intrinsic passivity of the Irish language? (I'm talking about the term "fell pregnant" rather than the part about having a baby "for" someone, which is ridiculous.)

A related thin - did you ever notice that all the 'rude' verbs for sex are transitive - f--k, shag, ride, etc. - but the 'polite' terms are intransitive - sleep with, make love to, etc.

iguana

cdaly_ wrote: »

give me a baby..."

That one probably originates from times when people didn't understand reproductive biology and common assumption in some societies was that the "baby" was in the man's sperm and the woman just incubated it after he put it there during sex. It's one of the reasons for the practice of agnatic succession, especially common in Salic Law, where all heirs must be from the direct male line and a females or descendants through females are discounted. (That and to keep English king, Edward III, off the French throne.)

It could also be where the phrase "having a baby for him" comes from, though I've never heard that phrase myself.

The Princess Bride

The only time I ever heard the expression 'pregnant for' was in The Snapper when Sharon Curley told her friends she was pregnant-one of them asked 'who are ya having it for?'.

As for periods- I'd like to think the years of saying 'I have my friend' or 'aunt sally' is long gone. How embarrassing was that.:o

Everything is over analysed nowadays-( even the over analysing)

raveni

Never heard the "having a baby for xxxx" phrase either, to me it sounds funny more than anything, almost as if it's suggesting he could actually have had the baby himself if he'd wanted to or that you're not keen on having it yourself. You'd say something like "I'm cleaning the car for xxxx" or "I'm looking after the dog for xxxx", it seems a bit self-deprecating to say "I'm having a baby for xxxx" but maybe I'm reading into it too much.

"On my pregnancy" sounds weird too to me, I would associate "on my" with "on my period" which I'd see as a normal phrase, I guess that is just something that has changed, I've never really heard "having my period". "On my pregnancy" though sounds both like you're saying it's the only one you're going to/wanted to have (fair enough of course) or that it's a regular thing the way a period is.

JuliusCaesar

"Falling" pregnant, and having a baby "for" him, were both expressions I first heard in London in the 70s. They hadn't been used in Ireland. They were both expressions used by the working class (or whatever that socio-economic level is called now). I figured they arrived here via soaps and Chat magazine... Still don't really hear it in the more middle-classes.

Used also drive me nuts in England to hear the midwives talk about the "Mummies". What's wrong with Mothers???? Then I found the same happening here. I used always ignore them, or if in a good mood correct them - don't blinkin' call me a mummy just because I'm pregnant! You know my name, it's on the chart. And if referring to the category of female parents, call us 'mothers' for heavens sake.

premierlass

Having a baby "by" someone* is a phrase that seems to be used fairly widely. I wonder where it originally comes from.

*interestingly, it's used both ways - more commonly, a woman having a baby by a man, but also a man having a baby by a woman

sam34

I've often heard " having a baby for..." but also where I'm from people say " to" eg " she had a child to him", which I think is quite strange.

another common one here is " when I was pregnant on my first baby"... to me it makes no sense and it should be " pregnant with"

Blush_01

The only time I've heard the "on my pregnancy" thing was in an "on my last pregnancy I craved fragments of rock dipped in petrol" kind of discussion. I've never heard it used in the context of describing a current pregnancy. I don't really see anything wrong with it.

As for the pregnant "for" someone thing, I have only heard that from people who would have had stereotypically working class backgrounds and who were from an urban background. I thought it was strange, but it's just phrasing imho.

pickarooney

doctorwhogirl wrote: »

I think the whole "fell" pregnant in Ireland prob stems from the whole "Fallen woman" angle we had going in the mega catholic times. :rolleyes::mad:

No, it's just analogous with "fall ill" and "fall in love" and is used in most English-sepaking countries outside of North America. The verb 'fall' is used in many languages to describe this kind of stage of change. But keep rolling.

Count Duckula

I don't mean to be an ass, but I'd like to point out that saying someone has "fallen pregnant" is used commonly over here in the UK, too! It could quite conceivably (hur hur) have its roots in Hiberno-English as I honestly don't know its origins, but it's no longer a uniquely Irish phrase.

Neyite

premierlass wrote: »

The one that gets me is "we're pregnant" which I hear a lot from America. I'm not going to say that it denies the role of the woman in giving birth, because I really don't think that's the intention, but it's ridiculous. I just don't understand why people don't use the "we're having a baby" phrase instead, which says all that is needful.

My partner and I have just started treatment with a fertility clinic and the night before he was telling me not to worry and that "we were in this together" I burst out laughing and pointed out that producing a sperm sample with the help of asian porn is not comparable to what I am about to go through. When the doctor was prescribing the drugs I need to take, she started to explain the long litany of possible side effects* I was half serious when I requested that he have a similar prescription, as "we were in this together"



*twins/triplets, hot flushes, bloating, abdominal pain, weight gain, mood swings, nausea, dizzyness, headaches, abnormal bleeding, breast tenderness, and vaginal dryness, in case you are curious

pickarooney

Count Duckula wrote: »

I don't mean to be an ass, but I'd like to point out that saying someone has "fallen pregnant" is used commonly over here in the UK, too! It could quite conceivably (hur hur) have its roots in Hiberno-English as I honestly don't know its origins, but it's no longer a uniquely Irish phrase.

Seeing as the construct doesn't, as far as I know, exist in Irish itself, that would be highly unlikely.

Elle Collins

Acoshla wrote: »

But the "We're pregnant" sh*t really annoys me, she's pregnant, we/ye are having a baby. Pregnant: (of a woman or female animal) Having a child or young developing in the uterus. The father is not pregnant and I find it odd when they describe it as such.

+ 1

This does my head in too.

I've no problem with anyone saying they're having a baby "for" their partner though. It's just a term that refers to who the baby's father is. Why would anyone get worked up about that??

Penny Dreadful

msthe80s wrote: »

The only time I ever heard the expression 'pregnant for' was in The Snapper when Sharon Curley told her friends she was pregnant-one of them asked 'who are ya having it for?'.

As for periods- I'd like to think the years of saying 'I have my friend' or 'aunt sally' is long gone. How embarrassing was that.:o

Everything is over analysed nowadays-( even the over analysing)

Hee hee, the Snapper is the only place I heard it used too:) Classic film however that said, the phrase bugs the hell out of me too.
Being "on" e.g. "about to come on", "should have come on my now" and such like are phrases about your period that I first (and most often hear) heard in England. It irritates me a lot for some reason I can't quite understand. If you're going to have your period your period simple as.

Penny Dreadful

Elle Collins wrote: »

+ 1

This does my head in too.

I've no problem with anyone saying they're having a baby "for" their partner though. It's just a term that refers to who the baby's father is. Why would anyone get worked up about that??

Because it makes you sound like a baby making machine:)

seenitall

Worked up? Hardly. But the expression does make it sound a tad like the woman is a baby-dispenser "for" the man. Almost ownership-like sounding, while in reality she is having it "for" both parents together (never heard it myself so far, though).

What's wrong with "with", sounds so much nicer and describes the equality in the experience?

Malari

I've never heard either of these two expressions. Only the "fell" pregnant one. They all sound odd to me though!

amdublin

Elle Collins wrote: »

I've no problem with anyone saying they're having a baby "for" their partner though. It's just a term that refers to who the baby's father is. Why would anyone get worked up about that??

Eh sorry but I'm not having a baby for anyone. I'm not here on earth to do one thing and that's to have a baby for a man, no thank you.

As a term that refers to who the babys father is surely you could just say xxxx is the father of her baby. Rather than making me sound like a baby making machine thank you.

Why would anyone not get worked up about someone implying that they are a baby dispenser for a man

Elle Collins

amdublin wrote: »

Eh sorry but I'm not having a baby for anyone. I'm not here on earth to do one thing and that's to have a baby for a man, no thank you.

As a term that refers to who the babys father is surely you could just say xxxx is the father of her baby. Rather than making me sound like a baby making machine thank you.

Why would anyone not get worked up about someone implying that they are a baby dispenser for a man

In fairness I don't think you understand that term as it is meant in speech amdublin. If you were familiar with it as part of the lingo you'd grown up with you'd get its meaning and know it has nothing to do with suggesting that women are baby dispensers for men. (I've very much a feminist woman and would have an issue with it myself if that were its intention.)

It's just a working-class colloquialism that identifies the father, and 'for' here is used interchangably with 'by'. If the latest news is that such and such a woman is pregnant you'll very often hear "Who's she having it for/by?". This is an inoffensive phrase and you're drawing an insinuation from it that doesn't exist in the minds of those speaking it.

metrovelvet

^ It does sound like you are doing someone a favor. The first time I heard it I thought it was referring to surrogacy.

Elle Collins

metrovelvet wrote: »

^ It does sound like you are doing someone a favor. The first time I heard it I thought it was referring to surrogacy.

Well, now you know better. I'm sure there are plenty of Americanisms that'd confuse me on first hearing them too.

professore

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

"Falling" pregnant, and having a baby "for" him, were both expressions I first heard in London in the 70s. They hadn't been used in Ireland. They were both expressions used by the working class (or whatever that socio-economic level is called now). I figured they arrived here via soaps and Chat magazine... Still don't really hear it in the more middle-classes.

Used also drive me nuts in England to hear the midwives talk about the "Mummies". What's wrong with Mothers???? Then I found the same happening here. I used always ignore them, or if in a good mood correct them - don't blinkin' call me a mummy just because I'm pregnant! You know my name, it's on the chart. And if referring to the category of female parents, call us 'mothers' for heavens sake.

Yes these are most definitely English expressions. Just as "The High Street" and "Annual Leave" are, two that drive me insane. What happened to "Main Street" and "Going on holidays" - are we in the army?

seenitall

Elle Collins wrote: »

Well, now you know better.

OR it could be that since you grew up with the expression, this is the reason you are the one with the bias in relation to it, as opposed to others on here who can view the implication inherent in that phrase more objectively.

Language is there for a reason - it expresses stuff, either implicitly or explicitly.

metrovelvet

Elle Collins wrote: »

Well, now you know better. I'm sure there are plenty of Americanisms that'd confuse me on first hearing them too.

I don't really 'know better'. The use of 'for' in this way is still misleading and incorrect. It only makes literal sense in the context of surrogacy. So I would say that the people saying 'for' who are not surrogates don't know any better.

Elle Collins

Meterovelvet: If the Irish people were to use only terminology that made exact literal sense we would spend most of our time with our mouths shut. I don't know how long you've been living here but if it's more than a few weeks I'm surprised that penny hasn't dropped for you yet.

And Seenitall, there is no mysogynistic implication in that term, other than the one you choose to draw from it. You are critisising a pattern of speech because of your own projections and mistaken interpretation of its intended meaning.

Can't stand these sort of hysterical attitudes I have to say; it is exactly these types of overreactions that give feminism a bad name.

Elle the only overreactions I see here are from you, telling someone we'd all keep our mouths shut and telling us about our projections Not a little condescending as well.
The phrase "having a baby for someone" does make little sense outside of surrogacy. There is nothing hysterical about it.

Elle Collins

bluewolf wrote: »

Elle the only overreactions I see here are from you, telling someone we'd all keep our mouths shut and telling us about our projections Not a little condescending as well.
The phrase "having a baby for someone" does make little sense outside of surrogacy. There is nothing hysterical about it.

Bluewolf, some of the people posting here seem to think we ought to call in the language police because of the use of the word 'for' in this context. There have also been comments linking it to misogny (which is hatred of women, let's not forget) I find this over-the-top, ignorant and offensive - and I say so as a feminist.

Malari

Elle Collins wrote: »

Bluewolf, some of the people posting here seem to think we ought to call in the language police because of the use of the word 'for' in this context. There have also been comments linking it to misogny (which is hatred of women, let's not forget) I find this over-the-top, ignorant and offensive - and I say so as a feminist.

I don't think it's the language police, I think it's more that people find the phrasing strange. And perhaps suggesting that it stems from the fact that women were supposed to "provide" children "for" their husbands. No-one is really suggesting that people who use the phrase now are being misogynist, but it sounds (to my ears, having never heard it before) like either an out-dated phrase, or in these days when surrogacy is much more common, that you are literally having a baby for another person.