Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

iguana · 24-06-2011 11:52AM

Gary4279 wrote: »

There are virtually no adoptions in Ireland anymore, and I think its such a shame that a lot of kids end up in temporary homes.

Umm what? Where did you get that ass-backward information from? The reason that very few Irish children get adopted is because there are almost no Irish children put up for adoption. Irish women have a myriad of ways to deal with unplanned pregnancies (and in fact even more ways to avoid getting pregnant in the first place), they can abort (getting to the UK is cheap and easy), they can keep the baby and be a single mother, they can survive on the lone parents allowance, or they can continue their education and work life with the support of friends, family and/or the baby's father. Adoption isn't chosen much any more.

However plenty of couples do adopt. But usually they do so from abroad, from countries like Russia, Poland, China, parts of Africa etc. There are 10s of MILLIONS of orphans across the world. Even if every couple, or single person, gay or straight, in the world who would like to adopt was given 5 children each there would still be MILLIONS of children who will never, ever grow up in a loving family.

How can anybody wish to prevent a child from living in a loving family claim they are pro-child. They aren't, not even a little bit.

Logical Fallacy · 24-06-2011 11:52AM

Spread wrote: »

Not quite sure what you are on about here. But the word Game might be a giveaway.

I'm basically poking fun at your willingness to label things "real" and "pretend" but then get a bit shirty when people ask you to expand upon your opinion.

So how do you feel about single parents with kids, as they lack a "real parent" and met, by definiton, the same 50% of a requirement that a gay couple would, under your real/pretend logic.

NTMK · 24-06-2011 11:53AM

Spread wrote: »

Are two daddies in a single family unit not more ridiculous?

:rolleyes:as about as ridiculous as none

o1s1n · 24-06-2011 11:54AM

philologos wrote: »

Fallacious argument. One could easily swap "heterosexual" and "same sex" in that sentence to make the opposite point. The only way to do this fairly is to talk about the average heterosexual and average same-sex couple.

You seemed to have missed my point. It's a fallicious arguement based on the logic of a generalization made by the person I quoted. Neither make sense.

philologos · 24-06-2011 11:55AM

o1s1n wrote: »

You seemed to have missed my point. It's a fallicious arguement based on the logic of a generalization made by the person I quoted. Neither make sense.

Fair enough.

GarIT · 24-06-2011 11:56AM

All I have to say on this that I'd much prefer no parents than gay parents.

Naikon · 24-06-2011 11:57AM

GarIT wrote: »

All I have to say on this that I'd much prefer no parents than gay parents.

Why?

o1s1n · 24-06-2011 11:58AM

GarIT wrote: »

All I have to say on this that I'd much prefer no parents than gay parents.

And if I were a gay parent, I'd much rather no children than bigoted children

Spread · 24-06-2011 11:59AM

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I'm basically poking fun at your willingness to label things "real" and "pretend" but then get a bit shirty when people ask you to expand upon your opinion.

So how do you feel about single parents with kids, as they lack a "real parent" and met, by definiton, the same 50% of a requirement that a gay couple would, under your real/pretend logic.

No, I'm not getting shirty. I don't live in Ireland ....... so if it's a TV thing, then I'm lost.

Single parents with kids is an unfortunate fact of life and a different discussion.

philologos · 24-06-2011 12:00PM

o1s1n wrote: »

And if I were a gay parent, I'd much rather no children than bigoted children

So if you're a child and you really want a mum and dad you're bigoted? Interesting take.

Spread · 24-06-2011 12:02PM

NTMK wrote: »

:rolleyes:as about as ridiculous as none

Again, the topic is Should Gay Parents Be Allowed To Adopt.

triseke · 24-06-2011 12:03PM

GarIT wrote: »

All I have to say on this that I'd much prefer no parents than gay parents.

I wonder if orphans would have the same bigoted take..

Wolfe Tone · 24-06-2011 12:06PM

No, I think the best possible upbringing for a child is to have a mother and a father.

Thus I feel the state should strive to place a child in the best possible home, one with a mother and a father. Of course if there is an abundance of babies, I.e some left over, then ok, let gay couples adopt, but I think that its best for a child to be placed with a "traditional" family.

TheZohanS · 24-06-2011 12:08PM

Spread wrote: »

Sorry for not phrasing it more succinctly. What I meant by real parents was a male and a female in a parenting role. Semantics should be left to the politicians. But when engaging with an excitable minority it is to be expected.

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSQQK2Vuf9Q

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 24-06-2011 12:12PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

No, I think the best possible upbringing for a child is to have a mother and a father.

Thus I feel the state should strive to place a child in the best possible home, one with a mother and a father. Of course if there is an abundance of babies, I.e some left over, then ok, let gay couples adopt, but I think that its best for a child to be placed with a "traditional" family.

But what if the best parents in the eyes of the adoptive board happen to be of the same gender?

THe idea that a child needs a parent of each gender is bollox. If it wasn't, then single parents would lose their kids. There are plenty of role models in the extended family and through extra curricular activities.

I don't buy the bullying excuse either, that's just a smokescreen. It it's not, then why aren't the purveyors of said argument out fighting bullying in the first place?

Show Time · 24-06-2011 12:13PM

A good solid working family unit has always been Mammy, Daddy and kids. Anything beyond that is really bending if not trampling all over the laws of nature.

sky88 · 24-06-2011 12:13PM

who cares whatever the gender is as long as the kids get a good home

triseke · 24-06-2011 12:15PM

Show Time wrote: »

A good solid working family unit has always been Mammy, Daddy and kids. Anything beyond that is really bending if not trampling all over the laws of nature.

Il tell that to my fiance who was raised by his mum and his grandparents. Im sure he'd love to hear about his family unit not being a valid "working family unit".

philologos · 24-06-2011 12:15PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

THe idea that a child needs a parent of each gender is bollox. If it wasn't, then single parents would lose their kids. There are plenty of role models in the extended family and through extra curricular activities.

Not at all. In fact the idea that having 2 mothers or 2 fathers not being different than having a mother and a father is what I find absurd personally.

All one is saying that the best family unit for a child to have mother and a father.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 24-06-2011 12:16PM

Show Time wrote: »

A good solid working family unit has always been Mammy, Daddy and kids. Anything beyond that is really bending if not trampling all over the laws of nature.

So is getting on an aircraft, using a microwave and wearing clothes.

deisedave · 24-06-2011 12:16PM

This thread is ridiculous, people who believe that gay adoption is right are obviously going to feel very strongly about it and not gonna change there mind. People who are against are not gonna change there mind, arguments will happen.

Bad idea for thread:o

Wolfe Tone · 24-06-2011 12:16PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

But what if the best parents in the eyes of the adoptive board happen to be of the same gender?

THe idea that a child needs a parent of each gender is bollox. If it wasn't, then single parents would lose their kids. There are plenty of role models in the extended family and through extra curricular activities.

I don't buy the bullying excuse either, that's just a smokescreen. It it's not, then why aren't the purveyors of said argument out fighting bullying in the first place?

I didnt say they need I said its the ideal and the best, hence the govt should try to put the child with an ideal as possible family, one with a mother and father figure. As I said if there are no such families, then let the gays adopt.

I said nothing about bullying tbf.

Duddy · 24-06-2011 12:17PM

Show Time wrote: »

A good solid working family unit has always been Mammy, Daddy and kids. Anything beyond that is really bending if not trampling all over the laws of nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin_selection

Families are more than "Mammy and Daddy", in all walks of life.

Don't equate the laws of nature with your narrow minded social construct.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 24-06-2011 12:21PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I didnt say they need I said its the ideal and the best, hence the govt should try to put the child with an ideal as possible family, one with a mother and father figure. As I said if there are no such families, then let the gays adopt.

I said nothing about bullying tbf.

Accepted. It was just the first line that was meant in relation to your post. After that I got general.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 24-06-2011 12:23PM

deisedave wrote: »

This thread is ridiculous, people who believe that gay adoption is right are obviously going to feel very strongly about it and not gonna change there mind. People who are against are not gonna change there mind, arguments will happen.

Bad idea for thread:o

Not nessecarily: I'm completely open; I just haven't heard a good argument against gay adoption yet.

Logical Fallacy · 24-06-2011 12:23PM

Spread wrote: »

No, I'm not getting shirty. I don't live in Ireland ....... so if it's a TV thing, then I'm lost.

Single parents with kids is an unfortunate fact of life and a different discussion.

lol, try telling kids with a loving single parent that they are an "unfortunate fact of life" and see how they respond. I think they might surprise you a little in how little they can see the unfortunate side of things.

To be honest, i don't see it as a different discussion, but rather a possible growth and expansion of this one.

Do you consider the addition of a same sex parent to be a bad influence on the child somehow?

Please not, i am not trying to change your mind here, i am just trying to understand your argument better.

philologos · 24-06-2011 12:26PM

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

lol, try telling kids with a loving single parent that they are an "unfortunate fact of life" and see how they respond. I think they might surprise you a little in how little they can see the unfortunate side of things.

He didn't say the kids were unfortunate. He said the situation was unfortunate.

NuMarvel · 24-06-2011 12:28PM

Spread wrote: »

No, I'm not getting shirty. I don't live in Ireland ....... so if it's a TV thing, then I'm lost.

Single parents with kids is an unfortunate fact of life and a different discussion.

Same sex parents are also a "fact of life". You may not have encountered them, but they are out there. I'd love to hear how you plan to reverse that.

Logical Fallacy · 24-06-2011 12:28PM

philologos wrote: »

He didn't say the kids were unfortunate. He said the situation was unfortunate.

lol, okay. But how is a situation unfortunate without that applying to the people involved in it?

philologos · 24-06-2011 12:32PM

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

lol, okay. But how is a situation unfortunate without that applying to the people involved in it?

It's unfortunate that a child doesn't have a father. There's a load of research done specifically on the impact that father absence can have on a child.

I think that a lot of single parents try their hardest for their children, but nonetheless absence of their other parent is unfortunate.

Preferrably as far as I see it it would be best if children lived and grew up with their biological parents. Unfortunately that's only an ideal.

Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

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