So, what you playing at the mo? Retro Edition

johnny_ultimate · 21-06-2011 12:34PM

I'd argue, but my keyboard is covered in coco pops.

All I'll say is - ssssppprrriiinnnnggg!

o1s1n · 21-06-2011 12:36PM

Meh, personal choice I guess. I'm really not a fan of post Snes Nintendo controllers. Didn't like the shape and reach on the GC buttons, the depth of the shoulder buttons, the analog stick tops seemed too small with horrible texture (which really doesn't help stop thumb slippage).

Plus as I was saying, the analog sticks don't seem to have lasted...a lot of the ones I've come across have gone the way of the N64 sticks.

Retr0gamer · 21-06-2011 12:39PM

If you want a bad controller for thumb slippage then try playing Gitaroo Man with the PS2 controller, it's horrible. It's like trying to slice a loaf of bread with a grenade.

johnny_ultimate · 21-06-2011 12:42PM

Or an FPS on a dualshock controller. It's telling that they usually default map shoot to L1 and R1 as opposed to the triggers.

And then there's L3 / R3. Shudder.

o1s1n · 21-06-2011 12:47PM

Retr0gamer wrote: »

If you want a bad controller for thumb slippage then try playing Gitaroo Man with the PS2 controller, it's horrible. It's like trying to slice a loaf of bread with a grenade.

I've always found the rubberized grip on a ps2 thumb stick to be great for anti thumb slippage. The problem with those sticks though is they made them convex.The winning combination would be that rubberized finish on the original ps1 analog concave sticks..shame Sony never combined the two.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Or an FPS on a dualshock controller. It's telling that they usually default map shoot to L1 and R1 as opposed to the triggers.

And then there's L3 / R3. Shudder.

Ah here, when comparing pads, the last thing in the world you should do is bring FPS into it

That's like comparing keyboards for platform games! I quite like the IBM Model M for Super Meat Boy myself :pac:

Retr0gamer · 21-06-2011 12:50PM

As I said, go play gitaroo man and then come back to me and tell me that the PS2 controller has amazing antithumb slippage.

o1s1n · 21-06-2011 12:51PM

I didn't say it did. I said the rubberized grip is good for anti thumb slippage but it's ruined by the convex shape.

Oh and no thanks on Gitaroo Man. I'm not into masochistic rhythm games

johnny_ultimate · 21-06-2011 12:51PM

o1s1n wrote: »

Ah here, when comparing pads, the last thing in the world you should do is bring FPS into it

That's like comparing keyboards for platform games! I quite like the IBM Model M for Super Meat Boy myself :pac:

Indeed, but given the 360 controller is a notable second best for all things first person, the weaknesses of the PS3 pad are much more obvious. The only game I'd turn to the PS3 pad over the 360 for would be Tony Hawks Pro Skater (back when it was good) or fighting games (you know, if you're foolish enough not to have a stick :pac:). Anything else feels far smoother on the 360 pad - better buttons, triggers that are actually triggers, concave analogue sticks. Crappy D-Pad, though.

o1s1n · 21-06-2011 01:00PM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Indeed, but given the 360 controller is a notable second best for all things first person, the weaknesses of the PS3 pad are much more obvious. The only game I'd turn to the PS3 pad over the 360 for would be Tony Hawks Pro Skater (back when it was good) or fighting games (you know, if you're foolish enough not to have a stick :pac:). Anything else feels far smoother on the 360 pad - better buttons, triggers that are actually triggers, concave analogue sticks. Crappy D-Pad, though.

Functionally, the Playstation controller is an absolute joke when compared to the 360 pad. Sony just hung onto it as it's an iconic design and over the years so many peoples hands have been mangled into a shape that's able to use them. The 360 sticks are really lovely. One of the best designs ever I reckon.

With fighters (and D pads I am assuming) you're just trying to figure out which is the least ****. They're both unforgivingly awful. I'd rather stick pin is my eyes than use a Playstation D pad for anything which requires circular movements. And it's still better than the 360 one!

Andrew76 · 21-06-2011 01:03PM

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I can feel some regulars choking on there coco pops as we speak!

I just assumed yee GC controller hating folk are just trolling, is today national troll day maybe?

@o1s1n: :eek:

Snes controllers were cool but with the need for extra buttons in later generations the GC handled it best imo.

johnny_ultimate · 21-06-2011 01:04PM

Well even shmups are surprisingly functional with the Xbox analogue sticks - spending a lot of time with Death Smiles v1.1 and MBL has shown that they're not the worst for the job. Again, stick is ideal, but they're certainly pretty wonderful analogue sticks in the overall scheme of things.

Retr0gamer · 21-06-2011 01:09PM

Ikaruga on the GC feels so right.

o1s1n · 21-06-2011 01:11PM

Andrew76 wrote: »

I just assumed yee GC controller hating folk are just trolling, is today national troll day maybe?

@o1s1n: :eek:

Snes controllers were cool but with the need for extra buttons in later generations the GC handled it best imo.

I just found with the GC they wen't too far down the child's toy route. And it's reflected in how the pad feels. Sure, they needed to expand from the Snes pad, but for me it would have been a more comfortable controller if they'd kept more of its key features.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Ikaruga on the GC feels so right.

GTFO!

johnny_ultimate · 21-06-2011 01:13PM

The GC controller is the QWERTY keyboard of game controllers.

Retr0gamer · 21-06-2011 01:15PM

o1s1n wrote: »

GTFO!

I beat it on the GC. The analogue stick and the A and B buttons suited the game perfectly.

o1s1n · 21-06-2011 01:21PM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The GC controller is the QWERTY keyboard of game controllers.

Yes, a VTECH QWERTY keyboard

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I beat it on the GC. The analogue stick and the A and B buttons suited the game perfectly.

That's more down to you being a freak of nature than anything else.

Retr0gamer · 21-06-2011 01:28PM

Your Ikaruga skills say otherwise. Yes I did just go there :P

o1s1n · 21-06-2011 01:33PM

I've never played the Gamecube version. It must be easier :pac:

Retr0gamer · 21-06-2011 01:44PM

Go back to playing Thrill Kill on your noobpad :pac: :P

o1s1n · 21-06-2011 01:53PM

Meow!

Kittie's got claws.

NeoKubrick · 21-06-2011 02:28PM

o1s1n wrote: »

Yes, a VTECH QWERTY keyboard

That's not off-the-mark. The button layout is designed for people who slide or mash buttons which is the style of input for most children and for roughly half of adult players. Playstation and Xbox were designed for the other half who precisely punch in input.

ghostchant · 21-06-2011 02:40PM

NeoKubrick wrote: »

That's not off-the-mark. The button layout is designed for people who slide or mash buttons which is the style of input for most children and for roughly half of adult players. Playstation and Xbox were designed for the other half who precisely punch in input.

As a 'well trained' tekken button-masher (the only game I find button mashing to improve my play), I find the playstation pad to be perfectly suited to the practice. The gamecube pad, with its differently sized buttons, only really allows for A/B button mashing imo. X and Y are placed just far enough away. GC controller is def my favourite post 16-bit era controller.

o1s1n · 21-06-2011 02:49PM

I rather the Dreamcast pad to the GC one myself. I know it's only limited to the one analog stick, but I much prefer the action on the buttons and stick. Lovely D pad too.

Dr Bob · 21-06-2011 03:12PM

meh ..its all been downhill since the Konix Speedking in my opnion....

ghostchant · 21-06-2011 03:17PM

o1s1n wrote: »

I rather the Dreamcast pad to the GC one myself. I know it's only limited to the one analog stick, but I much prefer the action on the buttons and stick. Lovely D pad too.

I'm a fan of the DC pad too, though not in love with the fact that the cable is attached to the bottom of the pad instead of the top. I know it's necessary due to the VMU etc slots up top though.

NeoKubrick · 21-06-2011 03:25PM

ghostchant wrote: »

As a 'well trained' tekken button-masher (the only game I find button mashing to improve my play), I find the playstation pad to be perfectly suited to the practice. The gamecube pad, with its differently sized buttons, only really allows for A/B button mashing imo. X and Y are placed just far enough away. GC controller is def my favourite post 16-bit era controller.

Well, all controllers are designed based upon all players' specific styles of using a controller. Playstation, Xbox and Dreamcast (!) controllers are more to the 'precise' end of the spectrum: symmetrical buttons. Gamecube controller is more to the 'slide' or 'mash' end of the spectrum: asymmetrical buttons. That does not mean that one controller nerfs one player's use; it means that one controller is easier for one use than another.

The GameCube controller has an oversized 'A' button which is designed as a rest for the thumb. So, that the player only has to tilt his thumb to press any of the other buttons, which is more suited to players who slide rather than precisely punch.

o1s1n · 21-06-2011 03:26PM

ghostchant wrote: »

I'm a fan of the DC pad too, though not in love with the fact that the cable is attached to the bottom of the pad instead of the top. I know it's necessary due to the VMU etc slots up top though.

Hah, I forgot about that. Drives me mental! There's a little notch on the top of the pad you can run the cable through so it gives the impression that it's coming out of the top. Doesn't work 100% though

johnny_ultimate · 21-06-2011 03:42PM

The GC pad's buttons are designed based on the regularity of use and their usefulness. So the 'B' button is smaller than the 'A' as it's designed to be a sub-button. They're also better defined shape wise, clearly separate buttons. Compare it to the PS pad and even the 360 where they aren't well defined - I'd imagine someone unfamiliar with pads would quickly adjust to the GC pad whereas there's be a lot of 'looking down' on a PS pad as they get adjusted to triangle x circle and square. Admittedly the x button is well positioned on the PS pad but that's almost accidental - look how Japan have more of a fondness for 'circle' as the 'main' button.

All controllers TBH are good at something. Some are more specific - only a handful of genres truly benefit from the dualshock, while GC and 360 have their weaknesses but are much more adaptable overall.

And even with a convex design, the analogue stick is still a load of win on GC with it's octagonal awesome.

ghostchant · 21-06-2011 04:01PM

NeoKubrick wrote: »

Well, all controllers are designed based upon all players' specific styles of using a controller. Playstation, Xbox and Dreamcast (!) controllers are more to the 'precise' end of the spectrum: symmetrical buttons. Gamecube controller is more to the 'slide' or 'mash' end of the spectrum: asymmetrical buttons. That does not mean that one controller nerfs one player's use; it means that one controller is easier for one use than another.

The GameCube controller has an oversized 'A' button which is designed as a rest for the thumb. So, that the player only has to tilt his thumb to press any of the other buttons, which is more suited to players who slide rather than precisely punch.

Fair enough. I always assumed that having the 'A' button centred is because of the frequency of use (as johnny mentioned above); Assuming that every second button input was the 'A' button, it would make sense for it to be the neutral/resting position for you thumb, with every second input being one of the surrounding buttons. I wouldn't consider it to be less precise and more "mashy" as a result.

Retr0gamer · 21-06-2011 07:26PM

I'm pretty sure that the large 'A' button of the GC controller was a product of how successful the context sensitive 'A' button of Ocarina of Time was. 'A' was the most used button and since it was context sensitive it was used for most of the actions in the game. Best to make the 'A' button the biggest since it is used the most. The 'b' button is smaller and used less but is easily accessible with your thumb. The 'x' and 'y' buttions are also easily accessbile but I won't lie, I think they are too close and I sometimes mixed them up in games like Metroid Prime, a bit of bad design there. Ocarina of Time wasn't the first game with a single context sensitive button but it was the one that explored their use the most and brought it to the eyes of the developers. Back in 1998 it was a really big deal and the game was celebrated for it's use. So the GC controller was designed around the control scheme of OoT being a standard for 3D games.

So, what you playing at the mo? Retro Edition

Comments