Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

Options
14344464849102

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Mallusk should be fine unless they are lying about the Spot. Better than Ballymena, which should still be in main service area.

    So I agree with Apogee. Either you are doing it wrong or the LNB doesn't work. Or else they turn it off every time you go out to look at it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Apogee


    If you can't find it with a Prodig in spectrum mode, you're not going to find it with any other meter. Put it into spectrum mode, and set the LO to 0MHz so that the frequency range is in IF mode (900-2100MHz). For NI, you should see the data peaks for the Blue or Purple spots.

    kasat_foot.jpg

    For the Blue spot, the data carrier peak is at 19.731GHz or 981MHz on the spectrum. For the Purple spot, the data carrier peak is at 20.118GHz or 1368MHz. These peaks are always on - if you can't see either of these, then something is wrong. You can check first that the spectrum is OK by attaching a Ku-band LNBF and you should see peaks for Eurobird 9E.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Just to show that even an analogue meter will work, you can see if I push/pull the LNB arm or push/pull on the edge of the dish, the meter reacts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭dbcool


    quick update 1:30 this morning cloughmills on an 80cm dish - saorsat! !!!!!

    carrying out more tests today around no with different dishes - will post pictures and info later

    key was puttting the lnb horizontal!


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Which LNB, and which way up horizontal?

    Must be an alignment issue as the transmission is Left Circular polarisation.

    Congratulations :)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Apogee


    I think he means he put the LNB lying flat, rather than on its side like he was doing previously - probably aimed too high above focal point of dish.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Yes, certainly on my Triax bar, it needs to be flat or one port is too low and the other two high. Strangely on the Hughes LNB I have both ports (H and V) seem active at same time on 13V or 18V. Also attempting to block either with a metal plate increases the output level. Very odd. Anyway I still have been unable to go and look at it since 5th or 6th of June 2011.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭Pangea


    watty wrote: »
    The beam is at an angle. It's seems much stronger in Donegal than Co.Antrim.

    163140.jpg

    What happens in the areas that have a clash of two signals? e.g. the purple and blue areas of NI and Donegal.
    Do you guys think SaorSat will be up and running by the end of 2012?
    Is Saorsat a part of the digital switch-over requirement from that EU law or is it just a bonus thing?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Nothing. In overlap of different "colours" you have a choice. Likely the "blue" and "green" N.I. and Welsh spots can be got on a bigger dish as far as Portliose or Athlone. Maybe even the Orange beam with a big dish in Dublin. It's spots of SAME colour with similar level signal that's an issue (which is worst half way between two identical colour spots).

    Saorsat is just a bonus.

    Actually even the Analogue Switch off isn't law, and the "real" EU recommendation is by 2015.

    Technically there is nothing legally stopping Ireland having NTSC colour 405 line TV on 185MHz and Secam 625 line on Ch 40 forever. Comreg regularly does "their own thing".

    MMDS (it's LTE or WiMax elsewhere)
    Deflector Licences
    10.45GHz Traffic Sensors
    Old GSM tetra re-purposed separate from GSM-R or E-GSM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    Interestingly on the tooway coverage checker it recommends some Pembrokeshire addresses use the Irish spot. So I'd say there would be coverage across West/SW and NW Wales Wales at least. Possibly over towards Cardiff without there being any interruption from Calais.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 34 dmcdream


    :D Congratulations to user dbcool on tracking down the Saorsat signal! :D

    I live in a "marginal" RTÉ reception point of south Belfast. I have been advised that my location is just too far away (36 miles) from the nearest transmitter at Clermont Carn in Louth, to receive its digital signal output (both now and after switchover.)

    I was hoping with dbcool's good news, that one of you chaps might perhaps like to lend a generous helping hand to me? ;) I am no techie by any means; however I do hope to be getting set-up assistance from an experienced contact in the TV trade. (So clear and simple instructions for me to relay would be greatly appreciated!)

    I am very interested in getting a multi-feed satellite dish set-up, with LNBs aligned to the following:
    • Astra @ 28.2°East
    • Astra @ 19.2°East
    • Hotbird @ 13.0° East
    • **Ka-Sat @ 9.0° East**
    I envisage the following equipment set-up:
    • 90cm Solid Dish (Fortec or Triax brand.)
    • Technisat HDFS HD Receiver (or another recommended brand anyone knows?)
    • Multi-switch unit (to enable a feed to x2 receivers).
    I've been monitoring the vast number of technical forums and websites out there which have been covering this subject; since the launch of Eutelsat's Ka-Sat antenna last December. I understand that the sticking point for enthusiasts (like ourselves), is the lack of Ka-Band equipment (i.e. LNB's more specifically).


    I’ve read in a previous board post here, that a successful temporary work-around to this problem has been achieved with an “adjusted” Ka LNB purchased from eBay. I've also read that removing a Ku band LNB feedhorn can work too (although it leaves the unit very susceptible to rain and bad weather) – is this all correct?

    I know I’ve gone in to a lot of detail here chaps; however I thought it was best to give you a full run-down on where I am (or not as the case may be) at this. If anyone fancies taking on this project with me, or can offer any help, guidance or instruction, I would be very grateful!



    I look forward to hearing from you very soon.

    Warmest Regards,
    Allan


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Apogee


    dmcdream wrote: »
    I've also read that removing a Ku band LNB feedhorn can work too (although it leaves the unit very susceptible to rain and bad weather) – is this all correct?

    No, it can't. A Ku-band LNBF is for Ku-band only and cannot be modified to work on Ka-band.


    Some of this I've covered in the PM, but for 4 positions, you're going to need a 16x sat input multiswitch. 3 of those will be redundant for Saorsat, but you can't buy a 13x sat input multiswitch AFAIK (you can get 13x input switches but they are 12x sat, 1x terrestrial).

    http://www.emp-centauri.cz/products.php?id_kateg=5&id_pkateg=14&id=248

    [edit] You could get away with a 12x sat input multiswitch, if you were willing to sacrifice one of the bands on 13E or 19E and use it for Saorsat for example - there's not much on 13E/19E of interest anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    I want to just mention that Clermont Carn will be receivable with an appropriate outdoors aerial in most of south Belfast when DSO takes place. Assuming there's no large apartment block or suchlike to the south across the road from you! If the RTE signal is good enough for some sort of Aertel (teletext) then I would expect it to work. Certainly, Freeview is already receivable in Dundalk with a good aerial and that's with even longer distance and crucially far lower power than Saorview will be next year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭dbcool


    todays findings - we have a temporary test rig - a ground mount wiht a td78a and the ka lnb taped on - workign fine in cloughmills - moved it to mallusk and couldn't get it working ( prob user fault only ) moved it back to cloughmills and working prefectly - a thing i've noticed - on all the screen shots of reviers receiving it - each one uses a different transponder number so a blind scan is essential to find it and whats really strange is that we are using a spiderbox hd and its pulling in only 10 % quality but the picture is 100% - even tonight in the rain - it never broke up and it was pretty heavy!!!! yee ha! - we are currently trying to fabricate a proper holder for the lnb coz this is the only way we will be quickly able to get this test rig from place to place.

    yes we had to lay the ln on its side to make it work


    and guys thanks very much for all your help - wouldn't have got this far without this board!


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 sourpuss


    Very good work going on up there,Glad it beared fruit,keep it up,hope proper lnb will appear soon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭dmm1000


    Is this the first time ever that an LNB of this type will be manufactured and used to recieve the type of signal being used in the Saorsat broadcasts - does this explain the lack of availability of these LNB's - i.e. have they never actually been used or manufactured before ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Apogee


    In a word, yes. Ka-band for DTH transmission is a novelty in Europe. However, the basic, underlying technology is not new, and Ka-band circular polarised LNBFs are widely used in the US. But the LNBFs they use are very complex and designed for reception of satellites from multiple orbital locations and therefore are impractical for use in Ireland.

    SL5_zoom.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Unless other countries start using Ka band for TV then is there any reason why anyone would bother manufacturing LNB's for such a small market :confused:

    Surely even if/when they do they are going to be hideously expensive ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    Won't the LNB be the same for tooway broadband, just it's sending a signal to a sat box rather than a modem?

    If they are expensive, this might be where a subsidy for switching over those in area's where RTE aren't upgrading masts will come in...

    Wouldn't it be fair to say that if RTE are supplying you with analogue tv, then as a licence payer you would assume they should provide you with digital... hence the need for a satellite(!)


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    No, the Tooway LNB isn't separate. It's integrated inside an ODU (outdoor unit) that has filters, polarisers, BUC (Block Up Converter = Transmitter).

    They will not be hideously expensive. As said earlier on the thread there will be ample quantity of Domestic LNBF (integrated polariser and feed horn) for regular dish at a reasonable price.

    The DirecTV LNBF system is for a proprietary satellite system and receiver IF. It's no use at all here really.

    People should wait for correct LNBF unless dedicated hobbyists.


    Note though some people will lose Analogue and not get Digital, that already the Digital coverage actually exceeds Analogue. Saorsat is thus a "bonus" for the 10,000 to 45,000 households that will get no DTT.
    Note
    About 250,000 households don't receive Analogue TV3
    maybe 80,000 households can't get Analogue TG4

    Today less than 45,000 households should be without DTT


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭dbcool


    the big bonus for saorsat is NI!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭Pangea


    dbcool wrote: »
    quick update 1:30 this morning cloughmills on an 80cm dish - saorsat! !!!!!

    carrying out more tests today around no with different dishes - will post pictures and info later

    key was puttting the lnb horizontal!

    So they have started testing saorsat have they? What channels could you pick up?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,478 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Pangea wrote: »
    So they have started testing saorsat have they? What channels could you pick up?

    Since mid May - start at post #1148 and here


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    There is only a test loop at present. No public service. This is since 25th May 2011 approx. but the test is not always on.

    Read back a few pages!

    also
    http://www.techtir.ie/blogs/watty/rte-kasat-tests


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭Pangea


    Nice to see some activity, thanks for the links, it's hard to keep up with the thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Peddyr


    dbcool wrote: »
    quick update 1:30 this morning cloughmills on an 80cm dish - saorsat! !!!!!

    carrying out more tests today around no with different dishes - will post pictures and info later

    key was puttting the lnb horizontal!

    So might just be possible here in IOM then. Now, if I can only get hold of an appropriate KA LNB...


  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭dbcool




  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Peddyr wrote: »
    So might just be possible here in IOM then. Now, if I can only get hold of an appropriate KA LNB...

    That would be the "soon to be released" domestic ones for Saorsat. Not ill-suited hacked LNBs from ODUs bought off eBay, from Hylas Hughes, Hughes Net, Wildblue or Tooway gear,

    Sure if you are very fond of microwave plumbing and experimenting buy something less than suitable from eBay. It will not work as well as the "proper" domestic LNBFs. "Coming soon" :)

    I'd be fairly sure I.O.M. will be fine for reception. Unless you are in a hole in ground on North West of Snafell.


  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Peddyr


    watty wrote: »
    That would be the "soon to be released" domestic ones for Saorsat. Not ill-suited hacked LNBs from ODUs bought off eBay, from Hylas Hughes, Hughes Net, Wildblue or Tooway gear,

    Sure if you are very fond of microwave plumbing and experimenting buy something less than suitable from eBay. It will not work as well as the "proper" domestic LNBFs. "Coming soon" :)

    I'd be fairly sure I.O.M. will be fine for reception. Unless you are in a hole in ground on North West of Snafell.

    Fortunately I'm not in a hole in the ground on the side of Snaefell, but have a good clear view of the skies from here. :) We waited what felt like an eternity for the launch of SV so I won't hold my breath waiting for RTENL to announce the launch of SS and the availability of certified / suitable equipment to receive it. Only hope I live long enough to witness it! ;)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    If you can hang on there till late Autumn Peddyr! Probably before end of 2011.

    I moved to this Glorious Republic from "UK" in 1983 and didn't have BBC till I think 2000 via Sky and later ITV joined. In 1983 we had 1.5 channels via very poor fringe VHF reception.

    Waiting since 1999 for Irish Digital Terrestrial.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement