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When atheists go too far

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    #1262
    Haelium
    Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Haelium


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I rest my case. This is exactly the attitude I was talking about.

    Religion clearly doesn't stand up to questioning, pretty much every Religious text says **** that we know isn't true. Geocentricism, Noah living for 700 years after the flood, the flood, garden of eden, etc.

    And if you don't like our attitude, tough sh!t, atheists in Saudi Arabia have to put up with being executed for apostasy. Even the Muslims in Saudi Arabia can be beheaded for blasphemy(Ie, questioning religion). And let's not forget about the Spanish Inquisition.

    So you have no right to complain about Atheists attitudes towards believers.

    However I'm not saying that there's no intelligent Christians. Just that it's not the worst thing ever that they might be mocked a little.


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    #1263
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    I find it very strange that a moderator, who is supposed to be impartial, but is clearly a total religious flake, is both a player and a referee in the same game. But that's Ireland, I suppose. Actually, I think we've met. Hope the foot is improving, Gavin.

    Anyway, I have achieved what I set out to do on this thread, and I have other things to do with my life, so auf wiedersehen and thanks to those of you who are clearly sane and have given me hope that Ireland may one day see the dawning of an era of reason.:)


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    #1264
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I rest my case. This is exactly the attitude I was talking about.

    You know what's worse? Catholics who aren't really catholic.


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    #1265
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    I find it very strange that a moderator, who is supposed to be impartial, but is clearly a total religious flake, is both a player and a referee in the same game. But that's Ireland, I suppose. Actually, I think we've met. Hope the foot is improving, Gavin.

    Are you talking about me? (I assume you are since you specifically mentioned my name.)

    Firstly, I'm not a moderator on AH. See the forums under my username? I'm only a moderator on those. I'm a regular user, just like you, on every other forum. Maybe a little understanding of Boards' rules would have prevented you from finding that simple fact strange. :)

    Secondly, how am I a religious flake? I'm really interested in hearing this answer. Also, where have we "met"?


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    #1266
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Haelium wrote: »
    Religion clearly doesn't stand up to questioning, pretty much every Religious text says **** that we know isn't true. Geocentricism, Noah living for 700 years after the flood, the flood, garden of eden, etc.

    And if you don't like our attitude, tough sh!t, atheists in Saudi Arabia have to put up with being executed for apostasy. Even the Muslims in Saudi Arabia can be beheaded for blasphemy(Ie, questioning religion). And let's not forget about the Spanish Inquisition.

    So you have no right to complain about Atheists attitudes towards believers.

    However I'm not saying that there's no intelligent Christians. Just that it's not the worst thing ever that they might be mocked a little.

    I have every right to complain. You cannot demand respect and tolerance from believers if you don't extend them the same courtesy.

    There is no call to be mocking anyone for their beliefs, or lack thereof.
    MagicMarker wrote: »
    You know what's worse? Catholics who aren't really catholic.

    I am not taking that bait. Nice try though.


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    #1267
    Masked Man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,546 ✭✭✭Masked Man


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I have every right to complain. You cannot demand respect and tolerance from believers if you don't extend them the same courtesy.

    There is no call to be mocking anyone for their beliefs, or lack thereof.
    I don't want respect from people that believe in a god, feel free to mock my beliefs. I'd actually be interested in how you'd make fun of them.


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    #1268
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    There is no call to be mocking anyone for their beliefs, or lack thereof.

    See this is just what I cannot understand. Anytime a religious person's beliefs are being mocked they equate that with they themselves being mocked. Yet if I mock fianna fail in front of a FF supporter no such distinction is made. It seems to me like the idea that someone's religious beliefs are not to be questioned or mocked is purely a cultural thing. Accepted cultures can change though. Long live mocking religious beliefs.:D

    So to clarify one last time Audrey, if you are mocking a person's beliefs you are not by default mocking that person as well.


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    #1269
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    As I said before I lack a postive faith in god (the mod dave actually had a really intelligent way of putting this which Ill look up) so Im not argueing dawkins is wrong god must exist Im putting forward the idea that dawkins is a bad figure head of atheism. He maintains a posistion of attack in the debate which as any poilitician will tell you is a good way to lose a lot of your audience!


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    #1270
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    As I said before I lack a postive faith in god (the mod dave actually had a really intelligent way of putting this which Ill look up) so Im not argueing dawkins is wrong god must exist Im putting forward the idea that dawkins is a bad figure head of atheism. He maintains a posistion of attack in the debate which as any poilitician will tell you is a good way to lose a lot of your audience!

    Far too many people misconstrue dawkins as a leader of Atheism. There is no leader of not believing in god. Although to be honest I have no issue with ridiculing religions because they're fairly open to it.;)


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    #1271
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Malty_T wrote: »
    Aww I love it how anytime he's pushed philogos simply starts providing more non answers after non answers and somehow believes those answers to be valid.

    Intelligent people question things, religion doesn't stand up to questioning.
    Ergo, there are no intelligent Christians*

    * Except that this is demonstrably false.

    Either Christianity does hold up to questioning, or there are no intelligent Christians, since the latter is false, the former must be true.

    If it didn't hold up to questioning I wouldn't be still professing to believe in Christ.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

    Argument from fallacy - I presume you mean I made an argument out of RichieC's nonsense? :pac:

    I'm just saying that many Christians are very clearly intelligent so what RichieC has just said is demonstrably false. The rest was just applying logic to this argument. It may be true that his complete argument is wrong :p


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    #1272
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Masked Man wrote: »
    I don't want respect from people that believe in a god, feel free to mock my beliefs. I'd actually be interested in how you'd make fun of them.

    I have no intention of making fun of you or your beliefs, I have more respect for you than that.


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    #1273
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,178 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    I wish I could travel forward in time another 2000 years to see how atheists are geting on trying to defend why they think Superman never existed.


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    #1274
    suspectdevice
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭suspectdevice


    man, i leave for a while and come back and some dopes are trying to justify religion

    listen, lets get something straight. there is no god, there is no basis for religion. anyone who thinks there is must be stupid


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    #1275
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    [...]


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    #1276
    suspectdevice
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭suspectdevice


    not at all

    take it apart if you like


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    #1277
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    I wish I could travel forward in time another 2000 years to see how atheists are geting on trying to defend why they think Superman never existed.

    What? Are saying that 2000 years from now humans as we know will exist. How incredibly irrational considering the advances in human technology.


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    #1278
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I have no intention of making fun of you or your beliefs, I have more respect for you than that.
    So I can believe anything I want and you'll be ok with it?

    The one good thing about organised religion is that at least there's a consensus and everyone is working from the same hymn sheet. Modern Christianity though individuals pick and choose and re-engineer what they've heard to suit their own lifestyle and desires. This kind of defunct their faith a bit in my opinion because ether they or their parents just made it up, it also shows they likelihood of that happening over and over again for the past 2000 years. I just don't see how anyone can put any faith in a bible because of that.


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    #1279
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    ScumLord wrote: »
    The one good thing about organised religion is that at least there's a consensus and everyone is working from the same hymn sheet.

    If only. Even if that were true I would not exactly see it as a good thing per se. But there is no sign it is true. In fact take Christianity alone. There are over 33000* different recognized branches of Christianity alone, often with different and even irreconcilable views. So even if you were to elimanate all religions except Christianity and you converted everyone... your statement would still not be true.

    Also even if you get two people from the exact same religion, who even sit beside each other on sunday in mass, and actually sit with them and unpick what exactly they think and believe... they rarely if ever match. I certainly have not met 2 religious people who match in what their faith and ideas actually are. I often wonder if there in fact exists as many gods and religions as there are people subscribing to them given no 2 are alike and they therefore all have their own.

    *Figure from World Christian Encyclopedia (year 2000 version). I can only assume the 2011 figure is higher again.


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    #1280
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,178 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    What? Are saying that 2000 years from now humans as we know will exist. How incredibly irrational considering the advances in human technology.

    Yes that's literally what I was saying, obviously.


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    #1281
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Yes that's literally what I was saying, obviously.

    Well you're blatantly wrong. FYI.


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    #1282
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    ScumLord wrote: »
    So I can believe anything I want and you'll be ok with it?

    The one good thing about organised religion is that at least there's a consensus and everyone is working from the same hymn sheet. Modern Christianity though individuals pick and choose and re-engineer what they've heard to suit their own lifestyle and desires. This kind of defunct their faith a bit in my opinion because ether they or their parents just made it up, it also shows they likelihood of that happening over and over again for the past 2000 years. I just don't see how anyone can put any faith in a bible because of that.


    What you've said is mostly right but you're wrong to say there's any kind of consensus. The whole thing is a big ridiculous hotch-potch of disagreement, contradiction, fallacy and hypocrisy. There is little consensus on anything. Even religious leaders themselves can't agree on alot of things. Mainly because there is so much of it that simply doesn't make any sense, and to try make sense of it is to try and defend the indefensible. They've lost the argument before they even start because they start with nonsense and it's just downhill from there.


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    #1283
    Mark200
    Registered Users Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    Well you're blatantly wrong. FYI.

    :rolleyes:


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    #1284
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    They've lost the argument before they even start because they start with nonsense and it's just downhill from there.

    Reminds me an old saying that I will substitute the word "religion" into in place of "life".

    Religions are like a sewer. What we are getting out of them is very much dependent on what we have been putting in to them.


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    #1285
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »
    Reminds me an old saying that I will substitute the word "religion" into in place of "life".

    Religions are like a sewer. What we are getting out of them is very much dependent on what we have been putting in to them.

    Tom Lehrer?


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    #1286
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    Yes actually, but I had assumed he himself had taken it from somewhere else so I did not cite it.


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    #1287
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Mark200 wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    :rolleyes:


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    #1288
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,178 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    Well you're blatantly wrong. FYI.

    Sarcasm man.


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    #1289
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    ScumLord wrote: »
    So I can believe anything I want and you'll be ok with it?

    The one good thing about organised religion is that at least there's a consensus and everyone is working from the same hymn sheet. Modern Christianity though individuals pick and choose and re-engineer what they've heard to suit their own lifestyle and desires. This kind of defunct their faith a bit in my opinion because ether they or their parents just made it up, it also shows they likelihood of that happening over and over again for the past 2000 years. I just don't see how anyone can put any faith in a bible because of that.

    Of course there are things which you believe that I wouldn't agree with but I would never mock you or belittle you for it or assume that I am of higher intelligence than you owing to your beliefs.

    If I did so you would be rightly insulted.


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    #1290
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    I'll fully admit that Isaac Newton was a pure genius however when it comes to his personal belief that Celibacy was his greatest ever achievement I will mock it every way I see fit. Having whacky beliefs doesn't mean you are stupid, or someone who doesn't share those whacky beliefs is more intelligent than you. Audrey please stop playing the victim factor here. You're beliefs may be deemed by some to be stupid, but that is nowhere near the same thing as saying you are stupid, end of.


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    #1291
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Malty_T wrote: »
    I'll fully admit that Isaac Newton was a pure genius however when it comes to his personal belief that Celibacy was his greatest ever achievement I will mock it every way I see fit. Having whacky beliefs doesn't mean you are stupid, or someone who doesn't share those whacky beliefs is more intelligent than you...

    +1. Agree totally, and this is the exactly where Richard Dawkins falls down and actually undermines his own position.
    Malty_T wrote: »
    Audrey please stop playing the victim factor here. You're beliefs may be deemed by some to be stupid, but that is nowhere near the same thing as saying you are stupid, end of.

    There have been a number of instances of people confusing the two above on this thread.


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