Why have children now got so many conditions ?

Daegerty · 20-06-2011 08:03AM

Motley Crue wrote: »

More therapists in different areas of expertise and more children mean that more conditions are diagnosed every single day. It is, I think, both a way of giving every child the best start in life (because we are all entitled to that) and trying to stop someone from having to go through childhood with difficulty (like having a genuine willingness to learn but not being able to physically get the information in) and come out the other side with a chance at a college education and a good job.

The real effect is quite the opposite however and making a mountain out of a molehill by pinning a child with some irremovable condition to make them stand out from the crowd won't do them any good either.

in a lot of cases psychiatrists and their ilk are far to keen to ship a child off to some special school or an institution, ruining any chance of even getting to college

Spacedog · 20-06-2011 08:08AM

jive wrote: »

A lot of them I think are legitimate (such as all those listed in the OP), however, I know someone who was recently diagnosed with.... wait for it.....

Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD). This basically means he's a phucking gob****e.

"Common features of Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) include excessive, often persistent anger, frequent temper tantrums or angry outbursts, and disregard for authority."

I guess these characteristics can be attributed to the heroes of the 1916 rising?

some people are social misfits,
some are angry (with reason)
some are spoiled brats who throw tantrums
some have issues about where they come from, their parents are
some are just scumbags

there is however a condition I have identified called 'social autism'. it exists in the minds of right wing politicians and their supporters. it is the complete absence of empathy or understanding for the elderly, poor, destitute, disabled, while being obsessed with superficial crap like house prices, armchair economics (low corporation tax). No logical argument can reach them. because they've always lived in another reality where being poor is something to be feared and looked down upon.

Pherekydes · 20-06-2011 08:16AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Because our f*cked up society is obsessed with uniformity. What is "normal" anyway? society is unable to accept that everyone is different, and unfortunately if you're different, you must not be "normal", it is necessary to claim that there is something "wrong" with you and give you a label.

This, in turn, is hugely damaging to one's self esteem and DOES create genuine problems.

But 95% of people are normal.

Naikon · 20-06-2011 08:17AM

Pherekydes wrote: »

But 95% of people are normal.

Define "normal". It does not exist, period.

Pherekydes · 20-06-2011 08:20AM

Naikon wrote: »

Define "normal". It does not exist, period.

By definition, 95% of any population is normal.

It sucks when you have to explain a joke.

Naikon · 20-06-2011 08:34AM

Pherekydes wrote: »

By definition, 95% of any population is normal.

It sucks when you have to explain a joke.

This "defintion" is relative to an unsubstantiated opinion. I fail to see how it qualifies as funny.

20-06-2011 08:35AM

Naikon wrote: »

This "defintion" is relative to an unsubstantiated opinion. I fail to see how it qualifies as funny.

it's ok, it's a stats joke... move along if you don't get it...

Pherekydes · 20-06-2011 08:37AM

Naikon wrote: »

This "defintion" is relative to an unsubstantiated opinion. I fail to see how it qualifies as funny.

Well I laughed. Maybe I'm ODD? :pac:

Naikon · 20-06-2011 08:42AM

Pherekydes wrote: »

Well I laughed. Maybe I'm ODD? :pac:

I really like this one:

Why can't mathematicians tell the difference between Halloween and Christmas?

Because 31 Oct is 25 Dec!

:pac:

W.Shakes-Beer · 20-06-2011 08:57AM

When playing MW2, you can almost be guaranteed that half the 15 year old quick scopers in the lobby are riddled with "ADHD".

Owen · 20-06-2011 09:02AM

The problem I see is with Parents. Kid gets diagnosed with ADHD, or ODD, or ADD ... and then they gets trolled out as an excuse for bad behaviour rather than them actually using discipline, and leadership skills to quell their crotchdropping.

I was probably one of the above, but my Mother knew how to tell me to STFU when I misbehaved in public.

Ghost Buster · 20-06-2011 09:44AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Are we trying to cover up the fact that they are either useless or plain bad?

But they are not allowed to be simply useless, evil, bad, or stupid.
Instead they have to have Asperger's Syndrome, ADHD, Attention Deficit Disorder or something else.

Considering the likes of Aspergers was discovered in 1944, how come I never heard of it when I was young and at school? Is it because we are wrapping all our children in cotton wool these days and everyone who underachieves or misbehaves has to have a 'condition'.

Going back to Aspergers, I saw a little piece on it on RTE today. It showed a guy of maybe 16 or 17 who would, in my day at school, have been described as a bit of a nerd or geek. It said that one of the symptoms of the condition was the fact that he 'found it hard to interact socially and make friends'. In my day this was common for nerds. Then we saw him engaging in something which he found he liked - reading comic books !! It was all adding up. Then next to a photo of him with a few 'friends', all who looked very 'nerdish'.

For me, I now believe I knew a lot of Aspergers sufferers in my school days. But we just called them weirdo's.

Am I being harsh? Or truthful?

Yeah. And people who were obviously possessed by demons and evil spirits or even Satan are now given namby pamby names like Epileptic. The world has gone mad i tells ya.

Chuck Stone · 20-06-2011 09:50AM

I blame the gays.

The King of Moo · 20-06-2011 10:01AM

I think the problem is partly that when we hear something described as a condition we think of it as being described as an illness as both can be used to mean that in medical terms.
But in psychological terms, they're not the same as far as I know. A condition isn't the same as a mental illness, it's more a way of classifying a personality type, especially one that deviates far from the perceived norm.

Now certainly things can get taken too far, like the ODD mentioned above, or some kids who're diagnoses with ADHD.
I used to be cynical about the diagnosis of ADHD, but then I had to teach a kid with a genuine case of ADHD for a short time, and I could easily tell the difference between him and a kid who's just a bit bold or hyper. He was a nice kid, but he just couldn't stop himself from jumping around, and I considered myself a fairly good disciplinarian with kids and had never had any trouble with any, but there was nothing I could do to calm him down.

It's a shame to think that in the past he would've been lumped in with the genuine messers and continuously disciplined even though it'd have had no effect on him.
It's the same thing with shy kids, sometimes it's just their personality and can be improved by proper interaction with them and their own willpower, but sometimes they need a helping hand.

It's important to remember that such conditions aren't meant to be considered as mental illnesses, rather just classifications of degrees of personality. Variety is great and necessary, but sometimes someone's personality diverges so much from the mainstream that they can't function properly in society and need some help from outside. Yes things can be taken to an extreme, but I don't think that's a bad price to pay for the help that our recognition of different personality types can give to those who need it.

iamwhoiam · 20-06-2011 10:07AM

The genuine cases od ADHD and Aspergers etc are missing out on resources because of the kids who are no such thing and being labeled as such .
There are of course genuine cases who now have to share SNA and many other relief and aid with kids who very simply have been lumperd with poor parenting .
We have two such cases here under our noses , one child who genuinely has a problem , who needs the resources and could do with more . The other child who is downright bold, wild, rude , and spoilt rotten ., He was allowed from infancy to rule the roost , the parents found it funny when he climbed on the cars on the road .He went to school and of course caused mayhem and all because he lacked discipline and guidance . And a good hard smack wouldnt have gone astray now and then either .

rainbowtrout · 20-06-2011 10:09AM

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The problem I see is with Parents. Kid gets diagnosed with ADHD, or ODD, or ADD ... and then they gets trolled out as an excuse for bad behaviour rather than them actually using discipline, and leadership skills to quell their crotchdropping.

I was probably one of the above, but my Mother knew how to tell me to STFU when I misbehaved in public.

Yep, none of these disorders existed when I was in primary school in the 80s. Kids were well behaved or poorly behaved and those that misbehaved learned to behave fairly quickly

Chuck Stone · 20-06-2011 10:18AM

Logical Fallacy · 20-06-2011 11:31AM

jive wrote: »

All terms said above have scientific evidence supporting those terms and are necessary.

I don't see how you could have some condition which makes you disrespect authority and generally go around acting like a prick. They should just call it prick syndrome instead of dancing around it. Just because you don't abide by the rules doesn't mean you have something wrong with you. For things like Asperger's it can be very obvious that something is 'wrong' with the person. People who don't respect authority and know they are doing wrong are just assholes, in my opinion.

I don't see how classifying someone with ODD helps in any way. You are just justifying them being ****. It's a made up, fairytale condition with shag all evidence supporting it. It's not much of a classification system if they can just coin terms for anything and everything with no basis for it.

My opinion is set in stone on this so I'm not going to bother discussing it further. It's not necessary to have more terms just to classify delinquents.

Out of interest why would you say "that doesn't mean you have something wrong with you" and then term the person a prick, or wanker....which clearly implies you feel there is something wrong with them?

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Yep, none of these disorders existed when I was in primary school in the 80s. Kids were well behaved or poorly behaved and those that misbehaved learned to behave fairly quickly

Not being smart, but they did exist, you just hadn't heard of them, as most people hadn't. Add in the fact that during the 80's the majority of people in Ireland were dirt ****ing poor, any form of psychoanalysis or therapy was considered a reserve for loonies and the mental health system in Ireland was complete ****e and there you go....lots of reasons why you wouldn't have heard of stuff until more recently.

I sincerely doubt you were too well up on Schrödinger's cat either back in the 80's...but i can bet that internet meme's have you all over the concept now.

Hell, if you were born at a certain time you'd be saying..."yeah well, when i was a kid the earth was ****ing flat...this whole round earth idea is a load of bollix".

I'm not saying there are not a certain number of misdiagnoses going on in the mental health system (from first hand experience i would say there are, daily ) but most of the reasons for dismissal given in this thread are fairly funny.

Raspberries · 20-06-2011 12:15PM

The thing is, back in the 80s or 90s, many children who had severe learning difficulties or anything similar were sent to special schools or institutions with no hope of normal interaction with their peers. For example, Rain Man. He was in an institution.

In schools now, they are attempting to include as many children as possible in the classroom. Some children may go to special schools for a period and then go to normal schools. Some may go to special classes in the normal schools.

So that may be another reason why people are finding out about different disorders in the past few years.

The thing is, a lot of people could be classed as being on the Autistic spectrum to some degree and some may use it as an excuse. But you can't lump every autistic child or adult into that category. Some do need extra help or a different way of teaching/learning.

Lady Chatterton · 20-06-2011 12:18PM

NIMAN wrote: »

Are we trying to cover up the fact that they are either useless or plain bad?

But they are not allowed to be simply useless, evil, bad, or stupid. Instead they have to have Asperger's Syndrome, ADHD, Attention Deficit Disorder or something else.

As someone who has worked on a voluntary basis with children with autism, Aspergers and ADHD, I find it very hard to believe that the OP has any real understanding of the conditions he has referred to, if he did he would realise how truly disgusting it is to describe a child with special needs as being "useless, plain bad, stupid or evil". I doubt OP that you would use these terms to describe a child with Downs Syndrome. Just because a disability isn't obvious from the outside, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I feel part of the problem in this country is that some ignorant people use labels incorrectly and inappropriately, we all have heard people in supermarkets describing a child has having ADHD because they have a tantrum and people saying they suffer from depression when they are just a bit down.

OP, I feel your description of children with special needs is very upsetting and insulting to the many parents and carers who spend their lives looking after children with some serious challenges.

mikemac · 20-06-2011 12:23PM

I think diet is a large factor.

Fill a child with sugary drinks and sweets then don't be shocked when they act the monkey in class. That is not ADHD and the child doesn't need drugs.
They are already drugged, food and drink are drugs realy

Our local school has banned mineral and sweets for lón and sos four days a week.

Great idea I reckon

Chairman Meow · 20-06-2011 12:28PM

jive wrote: »

A lot of them I think are legitimate (such as all those listed in the OP), however, I know someone who was recently diagnosed with.... wait for it.....

Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD). This basically means he's a phucking gob****e.

"Common features of Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) include excessive, often persistent anger, frequent temper tantrums or angry outbursts, and disregard for authority."

I ****ing laughed when i first head of this. Oppositional defiant disorder. You mean being a ****ing brat, right?

Kids these days just need to be slapped more often. But no, you cant do that...thats abuse :rolleyes:

Raspberries · 20-06-2011 12:33PM

Chairman Meow wrote: »

Kids these days just need to be slapped more often. But no, you cant do that...thats abuse :rolleyes:

But that just teaches children that you can sort things out with violence. Hardly the best lesson to teach them. If a parent has proper discipline strategies in place then there shouldn't be a need to slap. I can't remember being slapped when I was a child but the threat was always there!! :pac:

Android 666 · 20-06-2011 01:09PM

I always wonder when people start going on about children constantly being misdiagnosed, how do they know? Have they ever met a child personally that was misdiagnosed? Do they know themselves what basis was used by doctors to arrive at this diagnosis?

I know only one child who has been diagnosed with ADHD. Has he been misdiagnosed? I couldn't possible tell you as I have not much knowledge on the subject apart from a couple of articles I've read. He's a lovely little fellow but he's suffering badly academically because of his inability to concentrate. His parents aren't using the diagnosis to explain away bad behaviour - they keep schtum about it for the most part. But they are concerned about him and they can see the dramatic deference between him and his older sibling in terms of his ability to focus on anything. I know they're seeing a specialist to try and help him but beyond that I'm unsure what path is being followed in terms of therapy or medication etc.

Now, 20 years ago his condition would have gone undiagnosed and he would have been most likely left on the trash heap and labeled as a bold child - a reputation that probably would have followed him throughout school and ended up with him performing badly academically and diminishing his chances of doing well outside of school. But at least now his condition has been recognised and something can be done to help him out while it's not too late.

I understand that kids are sometimes misdiagnosed with these conditions but anytime these topics are brought up there is always an moral outrage about a sea of naughty kids being diagnosed with made up conditions as a free pass to act badly and a as a way to allow their parents feel better about not slapping them. Beyond these sentiments being said by a few right wing columnists I can't say I've seen any of this actually happening in real life.

Irish Guitarist · 20-06-2011 01:21PM

I have an autistic nephew and a niece with Asperbers. I can tell you for a fact these are real conditions. I can actually spot an autistic child now because their mannerisms are the same as my nephews. Most autistic children are usually very quiet too. They rarely scream at the top of their lungs in supermarkets like 'normal' children do.

NIMAN wrote: »

Considering the likes of Aspergers was discovered in 1944, how come I never heard of it when I was young and at school? Is it because we are wrapping all our children in cotton wool these days and everyone who underachieves or misbehaves has to have a 'condition'.

How the hell is anyone supposed to know why you never heard of something? Maybe it's because you're not a doctor. Maybe it's because these children were sent away to institutions.

The misinformed codswallop people spout on forums like this about things they know nothing about irritates me.

Bassboxxx · 20-06-2011 01:29PM

Hold the bleeding phone.....I like the Simpsons...and futurama, not mad about cricket, don't understand it:(

AND I don't like talkin to some people:eek:

SteelyDanJalapeno · 20-06-2011 01:30PM

Its down to diet.

Android 666 · 20-06-2011 01:33PM

Horgan wrote: »

Its down to diet.

Aspergers is down to diet? Yeah, right…

Lady Chatterton · 20-06-2011 01:35PM

Android 666 wrote: »

I understand that kids are sometimes misdiagnosed with these conditions but anytime these topics are brought up there is always an moral outrage about a sea of naughty kids being diagnosed with made up conditions as a free pass to act badly and a as a way to allow their parents feel better about not slapping them. Beyond these sentiments being said by a few right wing columnists I can't say I've seen any of this actually happening in real life.

I have come in to contact with lots of parents of children who are newly diagnosed with ASD, ADD, ADHD and other conditons. In my experience, labels are not just handed out (but unfortunately, there are always exceptions). In most cases children are seen by a multidisciplinary team which may comprise of a Speech and Language therapist, Occupational Therapist, Psychologist, Psychiatrist (ADD/ADHD) and assessments are carried out over a six - twelve month period, sometimes longer. So generally speaking diagnoses are not just handed out willy nilly.

In my experience, most parents are distraught at the thought of "labelling their child" and sometimes parents are divided about it. Many of the parents of I come into contact keep their children's diagnosis or diagnoses a secret as they are afraid how their child will be treated by a minority of very ignorant people who know f**k all about these conditions. However, a diagnosis is a sort of signpost and it helps the child and his/her parents in terms of accessing certain services such as behavioural intervention, speech and language therapy, respite etc. and educational resources such as a Special Needs Assistant or Resource teaching hours.

Early intervention is absolutely key for children with Autism, ADD and ADHD and I for one applaud the many parents, carers, teachers, special needs assistants and clinicians who work tirelessly to help these children to reach their full potential.

Wibbs · 20-06-2011 01:38PM

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Not being smart, but they did exist, you just hadn't heard of them, as most people hadn't. Add in the fact that during the 80's the majority of people in Ireland were dirt ****ing poor, any form of psychoanalysis or therapy was considered a reserve for loonies and the mental health system in Ireland was complete ****e and there you go....lots of reasons why you wouldn't have heard of stuff until more recently.

I sincerely doubt you were too well up on Schrödinger's cat either back in the 80's...but i can bet that internet meme's have you all over the concept now.

Hell, if you were born at a certain time you'd be saying..."yeah well, when i was a kid the earth was ****ing flat...this whole round earth idea is a load of bollix".

I agree, but...

there does seem to be more of "it" going around and maybe it's not just down to a previous lack of diagnosis, but maybe some of these conditions are actually becoming more prevalent.

Take asthma. Asthma was rarer 30 years ago. Significantly so. And it's not exactly a condition one could hide for long. Asthma as a condition has increased over time. Likely an environmental thing.

Now you could apply this to some of the behavioural conditions being described, particularly on the milder end of the scale. Autism is being mentioned, but unless I've read him wrong the OP didn't mention autism? A very serious condition indeed. Although on the same spectrum as autism, asbergers, particularly mild asbergers is likely to be a whole lot less crippling for the sufferer. Plus with asbergers it might be environmental, whereas autism seems to be an organic problem in the brain or manifesting there anyway.

Kids with either condition do require help. I would just be concerned that those kids with the milder symptoms/conditions are maybe being over labelled and over treated or not getting the right treatment and that's detrimental to such children(thank god we dont go down the US route where they're juicing kids up on strong meds).

I'd also be somewhat wary of medicalising being human. Or at least contracting what being "normally" human is and adding labels to things that may not require them. Not unlike some areas in other mental health issues where natural grief or a natural response to an emotional insult is conflated with organic depression.

Why have children now got so many conditions ?

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