(N/D)igger the dog.

flyton5 · 15-06-2011 12:41PM

The original film was dubbed in America when it was released. The dogs name was dubbed "Trigger".

/thread

melb · 15-06-2011 12:42PM

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Kind of weird as lots of war films will use the derogatory term of the day for the enemy...so racism is only bad if you can't kill the subject I guess.

Should we not be able to look at these films/shows in their original version and be big enough to admit that people back then were racist but leave the fims/shows as they were as a reminder of how things were and how far we've come?

Guill · 15-06-2011 12:42PM

Was the dog even black?

Logical Fallacy · 15-06-2011 12:44PM

melb wrote: »

Should we not be able to look at these films/shows in their original version and be big enough to admit that people back then were racist but leave the fims/shows as they were as a reminder of how things were and how far we've come?

Of course we should....i am unsure where i implied we shouldn't.

wandatowell · 15-06-2011 12:45PM

was the original film any good?

Kevin Duffy · 15-06-2011 12:45PM

Sin_J wrote: »

But it is required. It's not just a remake of a film, like Ocean's 11 or the Italian Job.

It is a remake of a film based on historical fact. The dog existed and that was it's name.

It's altering history to make it more palatable, which is crap imo.

But it's not required at all. If the dog had been called Spot and it was changed to Fido, that wouldn't change the fact the the movie is/was about coming up with an innovative way to bomb dams and damage German war capability while accepting thousands of civilian and allied POW casualties. It's not a film about a dog.

I think Jackson is a brilliant director, but the handwringing about faith to the original, truth and historical accuracy is slightly ridiculous IMO.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 15-06-2011 12:48PM

Guill wrote: »

Was the dog even black?

Yes.

Biggins · 15-06-2011 12:51PM

wandatowell wrote: »

was the original film any good?

Yes.

Sin_J · 15-06-2011 12:52PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

I'm usually dead set against changing historical things in films, but in this case I don't mind. It's not like the dog being called "N*gger" is crucial to the plot. Now if they changed it to the Americans blowing up the dams, or removed all references to the Nazis, then I'd be annoyed.

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

But it's not required at all. If the dog had been called Spot and it was changed to Fido, that wouldn't change the fact the the movie is/was about coming up with an innovative way to bomb dams and damage German war capability while accepting thousands of civilian and allied POW casualties. It's not a film about a dog.

No the film is not about a dog, but the dogs name does highlight something important. It's the start of a slippery slope of small changes that could eventually lead to the Americans blowing up the dams in another version of the film. It stops being about the history and is just about an entertaining story, but propping itself up on the fact that it is a factually historical film.

Let's say that in 20 years they decide to remake it again, but decide that the cast isn't racially diverse enough, or there isn't enough women in the film so lets make one of the pilots a woman.

If they want to deviate from history then call the film something else, change the story how they want it and and just say that it was "inspired" by the events.

The original was certainly dramatised but it did follow the history pretty well.

Guill · 15-06-2011 12:53PM

So the dog was black and called Nig*er in the original and there was no out cry? The Original is seen as a good film.

What would be the issue with the remakers calling the dog Nig*er??

Biggins · 15-06-2011 12:56PM

Guill wrote: »

So the dog was black and called Nig*er in the original and there was no out cry? The Original is seen as a good film.

What would be the issue with the remakers calling the dog Nig*er??

One word mainly to sum it up, America.

Logical Fallacy · 15-06-2011 12:58PM

wandatowell wrote: »

was the original film any good?

Yeah it's alright. Very "Biggles".

stovelid · 15-06-2011 01:00PM

When we first moved to Ireland in the early 80s, a family on our street had a black Alsatian called nigger. Who often bit children on a whim with complete impunity.

A happier, altogether more carefree time, it was.

Meleftone · 15-06-2011 01:13PM

They are still going to have to use the N word as The mission codes (transmitted in morse) were: Goner, meaning "bomb dropped"; N****r, meaning that the Möhne was breached and; Dinghy meaning that the Eder was breached. They used N****r as the dog was killed the morning of the mission.

The King of Moo · 15-06-2011 01:16PM

Sin_J wrote: »

No the film is not about a dog, but the dogs name does highlight something important. It's the start of a slippery slope of small changes that could eventually lead to the Americans blowing up the dams in another version of the film. It stops being about the history and is just about an entertaining story, but propping itself up on the fact that it is a factually historical film.

Let's say that in 20 years they decide to remake it again, but decide that the cast isn't racially diverse enough, or there isn't enough women in the film so lets make one of the pilots a woman.

If they want to deviate from history then call the film something else, change the story how they want it and and just say that it was "inspired" by the events.

The original was certainly dramatised but it did follow the history pretty well.

I'd love if they didn't change his name because people were mature enough to accept that that's how things were at the time, but unfortunately I think there'd be a huge outcry if they kept the name (and not just from black people) and I can understand Peter Jackson changing the name to avoid that.
However I do agree that it's part of a larger trend to sanitise history in films.
For example, from what I'd seen so far, Captain America seemed to be trying to remove as many references to Nazism as possible (remember when the Allies fought H.Y.D.R.A in the 40s?) in the trailers at least, though I did see a poster (limited edition for a small number of people, I think) with Captain America punching Hitler, so hopefully it won't be a complete erasure of the Nazis.

Pherekydes · 15-06-2011 01:17PM

Sinfonia wrote: »

I think it is racist. I think it is history.

Would Blackie be as bad? Darkie? Snowy? Whitey? Is Madra Rua racist against Red Indians?

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another, while this [dog's name] just refers to the dog's colour [presumably].

Lando Griffin · 15-06-2011 01:23PM

Cant change history when its set in stone.

mikemac · 15-06-2011 01:27PM

Eeny meany miney mo
Catch a ní*** by the toe
If he squeals let him go
Eeny meany miney mo

Me and my friends were racist 4 and 5 year olds :eek:
As that's what we used

This rewriting is constantly going on, with Famous Five and Secret Seven
Many of us read Enid Blython with golliwogs and rough common folk and the coloured people.
They were written back in the 50's but buy a new edition today and it's been edited

Kevin Duffy · 15-06-2011 01:33PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

Would Blackie be as bad? Darkie? Snowy? Whitey? Is Madra Rua racist against Red Indians?

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another, while this [dog's name] just refers to the dog's colour [presumably].

Blackie refers to a colour and was in times past a little used to refer to black people, in an ignorant way. Ditto darkie. Snowy not used in the same way that I've ever known. Whitey comparable to blackie or darkie, but has passed into comic use.

Ni**er has passed into an order of hatefulness that's just not comparable to the others.

Maybe as a compromise Snoop Dog could play the part. He and Guy Gibson could go for walks and he could offer his opinion on the bombings - "What do you think mah niggah?". The codewords for success could be shcizlle, pizzle and nizzle. Or something.

Biggins · 15-06-2011 01:35PM

You have to wonder once n a while at all the changes we have made in terms of political correctness.
For example...

"N'igger was out playing the back garden when he suddenly escaped by jumping over the wall.
He ran into next doors garden. Then there was a chink! A latch on a door opened and a Chinese woman ran out holding on to her pussy tightly (she liked to stroke her pussy and had been doing so).
She didn't want N'igger to get the Gollywog that was laying in the grass. It was left there by her daughter Frigid, before she went to school.
She hoped too that N'igger wouldn't jump on the Christmas tree. Her husband would be returning home soon with a fairy!"

I suppose its all about timing and context!

melb · 15-06-2011 01:44PM

You see rappers using the N word all the time. "But that's our word..."

If the world wants rid of this word the whole world has to stop using it.

Irish Guitarist · 15-06-2011 01:44PM

N*gger means black. The dogs name was no more racist than calling a dalmation 'Spot'. Just because people have become over sensitive doesn't mean history should be rewritten.

Also if people find this offensive I hope they never find out what was happening in the concentration camps at the time.

Far worse things were happening to people and indeed to dogs at the time.

Yakult · 15-06-2011 01:48PM

Call the dog Snigger?

Krusader · 15-06-2011 01:48PM

They should rename it Knigger with a silent K

Irish Guitarist · 15-06-2011 01:49PM

Does anyone remember an eighties episode of Eastenders where Dot Cotton went into the market and asked for a ball of 'n*gger brown wool'?

Biggins · 15-06-2011 01:54PM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

...Also if people find this offensive I hope they never find out what was happening in the concentration camps at the time.

Far worse things were happening to people and indeed to dogs at the time.

Indeed sometimes both at the same time.
I remember reading one poor mothers account some years back and to this day it gives me shivers down my spine, not just as a father of four but as what I hope I am, a decent human being.

I will in my own words retell part of her story BUT HONESTLY if your of a sensitive nature and often read or see things you sometimes wish you didn't, later and want to try and forget - PLEASE - PLEASE - DON'T read the following.
The following is NOT a joke or wind-up.

The survivor of the camp had a baby when they brought her to one of the concentration camps. When she got there, once off the train, they took the baby out of her arms and actually threw it across a small wall to where other babies had been. I say "had" - because still alive, the guards of the camp let loose their German Alsation dogs to feed and rip apart what they saw as fodder coming across the wall occasionally.

I honestly was sick when I read that harrowing account.
It still gives me nightmares and sorrows me to this day.

sensibleken · 15-06-2011 02:01PM

I think the most offensive thing is that they are remaking dambusters.

doesnt anyone in hollywood have an original idea anymore? Jackson's last decent original film was Braindead anyway. now he's doing what he did with king kong, take a great movie, through money at it and come up with something way too long and infinitely passable

melb · 15-06-2011 02:03PM

sensibleken wrote: »

I think the most offensive thing is that they are remaking dambusters.

doesnt anyone in hollywood have an original idea anymore? Jackson's last decent original film was Braindead anyway. now he's doing what he did with king kong, take a great movie, through money at it and come up with something way too long and infinitely passable

There comes a point in time when no idea is original....

"Simpsons did it"

Biggins · 15-06-2011 02:04PM

Next thing you know they will be remaking the Godfather films.
I can't imagine the amount of watering down there some sections might call for!
There was uproar the first time around and that was when they were supposed to THEN be sensitive supposedly to such things!

sensibleken · 15-06-2011 02:07PM

melb wrote: »

There comes a point in time when no idea is original....

"Simpsons did it"

I've never seen a film about a one eyed transvestite gorrilla whos lost a bag of his dads cum

(N/D)igger the dog.

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