There's seriously something wrong with the system.

I-Shot-Jr · 09-06-2011 01:23PM #1

I apologize in advance for the shameless rant that I am about to unleash on to the unsuspecting folk of after hours...

I am a twenty year old man, I go to college and I rent an apartment. To pay for these, I work part time and I just about cover most of my expenses. Given that I work for just above the minimum wage I'm sure you can understand that it's a little difficult to get by even at the best of times. Now I don't want to paint a picture of a destitute student because I'm not, the rent is always paid and there's generally enough to eat in the fridge and I would have happily accepted this situation until I finished college however here is where my rant begins.

To complete my degree, I have to go abroad for a year on erasmus. There is no way around this, nothing that can be arranged, NADA. If I want a degree I have to go. Ordinarily this would be fantastic, its a great oppurtunity that most people won't get and most people in my year are delighted, excited to be going away. I however am fecked. Given my limited means, there is no way in hell I can afford to go away. It just wouldn't work, they give you a small grant but that just about covers the registration fee. I am lucky in one respect that I can work full time over the summer and the hours are there but I just do not have enough time to save up for college. I applied for a student loan to cover my expenses but that was denied. Fair enough, the bank reckoned it was a bad idea to give me a load of money to let me leave the country. So as a last resort I went to the council about getting a grant. Apparently because I'm only 20 they would have to assess my parent's incomes. Information I don't have access to (long story) as I've been independent of both of them for a few years now. According to the lady at the council I would need a letter from the HSE and in her words prove that my mam "Hit me or something" in order to get a grant.

Now this grinds my gears like you wouldn't believe, here I am doing my very best to pay my way through college, and maintain as much financial independence as possible. I don't want to be a leech on the state. I don't want to be a leech full stop. I just need help. Yet I'm being refused it because I haven't a letter from a farcical institution that happily gives medical cards and free transport to junkies. The worst is I've seen plenty of people who have readily admitted to me that they are in better off positions than I am get grants. Many of these people have pissed it away on going out or holidays. I just don't get it. I really don't. I have no faith in the system whatsoever.

Rant over, I'm really sorry, I just needed to vent that.:mad:

Biggins · 09-06-2011 01:25PM

Sorry to see your in this tough situation.
I hope some here will post a few good possible suggestions. All the best.

I-Shot-Jr · 09-06-2011 01:27PM

Biggins wrote: »

Sorry to see your in this tough situation.
I hope some here will post a few good possible suggestions. All the best.

Thanks Biggins, I doubt there's much I can do at this stage but sure you never know what will happen. Thanks again for your support.

Donkey Oaty · 09-06-2011 01:28PM

I-Shot-Jr wrote: »

According to the lady at the council I would need a letter from the HSE and in her words prove that my mam "Hit me or something" in order to get a grant.

Jesus.

What's the advice from the Students' Union?

Nodin · 09-06-2011 01:30PM

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Jesus.

...yep. Contrary to the myth of 'leave school and then get rent/scratcher' its not that simple.

Badgermonkey · 09-06-2011 01:31PM

Unfortunately, you'll be corrupting the system further by asking your TD to intervene on your behalf, which is what I'd recommend you do.

SEPT 23 1989 · 09-06-2011 01:31PM

The Irish system only works if you have nothing or have a lot

drunkmonkey · 09-06-2011 01:33PM

What's stopping you getting some part time work in the country you have to go to?
Head for the nearest Irish pub and they should set you straight.

Noo · 09-06-2011 01:34PM

Tough situation OP.

Is there anyone in your college you can talk to, course/department head, someone involved in sorting erasmus, surely you arent the first person ever to have financial trouble with this forced year away. And keep annoying everyone (nicely), visiting their offices and emailing them until you find someone willing to help or point you in the right direction of college grants. What happens if you cant afford to go? you automatically fail the year? I cant even describe how angry that thought is making me.

Also have you enough funding to make it over? Just get a part time job over there?

Ficheall · 09-06-2011 01:35PM

Would you be satisfied if the junkies didn't get free medical cards and transport? Or would you still be unhappy that you can't afford to go on the Erasmus that you agreed to go on when you signed up for the degree?
Doesn't the government already pay your 6k fees every year, as for everyone else?

Don't get me wrong, I feel for you - but I'm just playing devil's advocate...

edit: Also - this isn't the first time I've heard of someone being "forced" to go on Erasmus - does the college just not let people taking a BA instead of a BA Int. if they decide not to go abroad? I don't see why they should have any issue with that.

angelfire9 · 09-06-2011 01:36PM

OP can you defer for a year i.e. take 12 months out to work your ass off and save money for the ERASMUS in 2012?
I assume you are in UL?
Isn't there some medical thing that you can get a cert from your doctor stating that you can't go abroad for 12 months because you have a medical condition that needs monitoring or you're on a waiting list for a procedure

I have a vague recollection from when I was in college of people getting out of ERASMUS in UL via doctor's letters

snubbleste · 09-06-2011 01:38PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What's stopping you getting some part time work in the country you have to go to?
Head for the nearest Irish pub and they should set you straight.

Exactly. Erasmus students coming to Ireland had to get jobs as their home country's grants system was not very generous.

Aldebaran · 09-06-2011 01:38PM

Have you spoken to any of your lecturers or your course coordinator? I'm sure they don't want to see you fail and I'm sure they've encountered other students in similar situations before.

Noo · 09-06-2011 01:39PM

Ficheall wrote: »

Would you be satisfied if the junkies didn't get free medical cards and transport? Or would you still be unhappy that you can't afford to go on the Erasmus that you agreed to go on when you signed up for the degree?
Doesn't the government already pay your 6k fees every year, as for everyone else?

Don't get me wrong, I feel for you - but I'm just playing devil's advocate...

Thats a bit unfair, college is for 4ish years, things change. I started college in 2006 and finished in 2010...doesnt need a genius to work out the financial changes occuring during that time.

I-Shot-Jr · 09-06-2011 01:41PM

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Unfortunately, you'll be corrupting the system further by asking your TD to intervene on your behalf, which is what I'd recommend you do.

Absolutely, I'm not going to do that. I feel very strongly about using a TD, however I'm considering contacting a few and using my situation suggesting they overhaul the system.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The Irish system only works if you have nothing or have a lot

So true.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What's stopping you getting some part time work in the country you have to go to?
Head for the nearest Irish pub and they should set you straight.

Its a small enough town in Spain, there is an Irish bar I have tried contacting about work but theres been no reply. Given the employment issues Spain has, part time work would more than likely be scarce.

Noo wrote: »

Tough situation OP.

Is there anyone in your college you can talk to, course/department head, someone involved in sorting erasmus, surely you arent the first person ever to have financial trouble with this forced year away. And keep annoying everyone (nicely), visiting their offices and emailing them until you find someone willing to help or point you in the right direction of college grants. What happens if you cant afford to go? you automatically fail the year? I cant even describe how angry that thought is making me.

Also have you enough funding to make it over? Just get a part time job over there?

I've tried everything, year heads, international officer, SU. Nothing, apparently the people in my position either deferred or dropped out. In first year there was 60 of us, the fourth year that has just graduated had just 7. The third year gets rid of a lot of people.

I could probably get over there handily enough. However it would be too much of a gamble to hope for work. If it all failed I'd have to repeat the year in Spain whilst paying full fees. As you would imagine this would exacerbate the situation.

who the fug · 09-06-2011 01:41PM

This any use

Erasmus Programme 2007-2013

What country are you think about?

D1stant · 09-06-2011 01:42PM

Thats a tough gig, and Ruairi Quinn is going to make it tougher

Have you tried the credit union for the loan?

Noo · 09-06-2011 01:44PM

D1stant wrote: »

Thats a tough gig, and Ruairi Quinn is going to make it tougher

Have you tried the credit union for the loan?

Credit unions have interest only loans were you only pay off the interest for the first year or whatever time and then the actual loan after that, useful for people going abroad for a year or so.

TheZohanS · 09-06-2011 01:45PM

This might sound a bit crass but how about telling them that your parents are no longer with us? Surely if you can prove that you've been independent for a few years now they won't ask any more questions.

I-Shot-Jr · 09-06-2011 01:48PM

Ficheall wrote: »

Would you be satisfied if the junkies didn't get free medical cards and transport? Or would you still be unhappy that you can't afford to go on the Erasmus that you agreed to go on when you signed up for the degree?
Doesn't the government already pay your 6k fees every year, as for everyone else?

Don't get me wrong, I feel for you - but I'm just playing devil's advocate...

edit: Also - this isn't the first time I've heard of someone being "forced" to go on Erasmus - does the college just not let people taking a BA instead of a BA Int. if they decide not to go abroad? I don't see why they should have any issue with that.

To an extent yes, I think there is a lot wrong with how we go about dealing with junkies in this country, different topic for a different thread though.

Yes the government pays my fees, although given that I contribute to the exchequer (however small my contribution is) and that once I secure my degree and get a job I feel the government should get back an awful lot more out of me than they would giving a medical card to someone scabbing for change at a luas stop so they can get their next fix.

There is no way around it, its a relatively new course in my college, and there is no third year in my college. (Btw to the poster who asked if I was in UL I'm not I'm in Tallaght!)

Ficheall · 09-06-2011 01:53PM

Fair enough, I suppose.

Is there even an option just to go for one semester?
Also - Erasmus students almost never fail, and you seem like you'll actually put some work in, so I wouldn't worry about having to repeat.

And Spain is cheaper than Ireland, to the best of my knowledge, so it might not be as bad as you think? What extra expenses are you expecting to incur - given that you're renting here already? Flights are dirt cheap. Cost of living over there probably less than here..

I-Shot-Jr · 09-06-2011 01:54PM

who the fug wrote: »

This any use

Erasmus Programme 2007-2013

What country are you think about?

Spain, and I hadn't seen this, I'll look into it right away. Thank you so much.

D1stant wrote: »

Thats a tough gig, and Ruairi Quinn is going to make it tougher

Have you tried the credit union for the loan?

Well I only have like 25 quid in the CU so I doubt they'll be able to do much for me.

TheZohan wrote: »

This might sound a bit crass but how about telling them that your parents are no longer with us? Surely if you can prove that you've been independent for a few years now they won't ask any more questions.

Would that work though? Honestly I wouldn't mind but surely they'd ask for death certs and the like?

I-Shot-Jr · 09-06-2011 01:58PM

Ficheall wrote: »

Fair enough, I suppose.

Is there even an option just to go for one semester?
Also - Erasmus students almost never fail, and you seem like you'll actually put some work in, so I wouldn't worry about having to repeat.

And Spain is cheaper than Ireland, to the best of my knowledge, so it might not be as bad as you think? What extra expenses are you expecting to incur - given that you're renting here already? Flights are dirt cheap. Cost of living over there probably less than here..

Unfortunately not, I have to go to for two semesters, and you're right, I'd work my balls off!

Yeah the rent seems reasonable enough and so does the cost of living, its just the college told us to have at least 6,000 going over. I'm looking more into it trying to do some sums but its hard to predict how much I'll need because given it's a relatively new country to me I'm not too sure what to expect living there!

Kevin Duffy · 09-06-2011 02:04PM

Can you make affidavits, show your housing/banking etc. history to show you have been independent/emancipated from your parents for a long time and challenge the decision on the grant?

The expression "your parents hit you" (or whatever it was) is, I'd guess, a crude paraphrase of some provision that you can qualify if you have left or been removed from the family home and are financially independent, whatever the reason.

I'd also check the exact regulations of the grant scheme and make a targeted challenge to have the terms of it applied correctly, it sounds quite unlikely that there is a simple cutoff for qualification, I'm sure all the circumstances can be taken into account.

enda1 · 09-06-2011 02:04PM

I think you can "disown" your parents in order to be considered as financially independent.

who the fug · 09-06-2011 02:05PM

Send these people an email, there may know of some grants

http://www.isea.ie/contact_us.htm

Might be some info here

http://www.indobase.com/study-abroad/countries/spain/study-expenses.html

Suggest you try every angle on google to see if you can get a grant

prinz · 09-06-2011 02:12PM

I'd chance my arm contacting the Spanish embassy mate. It might come to nothing but I know some European countries give out scholarships to help finance study in their country.

Angeles · 09-06-2011 02:18PM

Jasus AH, you can be a resourceful bunch when you put your mind to it!, nearly 3 pages of post and not one mention of a fapaton for money.
dunno should be disappoint or impress!

Seachmall · 09-06-2011 02:18PM

You're 20 years old, why the hell are they asking about your parents income?!

I know that many 20 year olds get financial support from their parents (I do) but you are legally independent from them. They might as well ask what your neighbours' income is.

Bloody ridiculous.

I-Shot-Jr · 09-06-2011 02:19PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Can you make affidavits, show your housing/banking etc. history to show you have been independent/emancipated from your parents for a long time and challenge the decision on the grant?

The expression "your parents hit you" (or whatever it was) is, I'd guess, a crude paraphrase of some provision that you can qualify if you have left or been removed from the family home and are financially independent, whatever the reason.

I'd also check the exact regulations of the grant scheme and make a targeted challenge to have the terms of it applied correctly, it sounds quite unlikely that there is a simple cutoff for qualification, I'm sure all the circumstances can be taken into account.

I'm looking into it now, trawling through the information, its slow going but hopefully I'll be able to uncover some useful information to me! You're right I think, I should probable prepare some kind of angle and go in again once I have more information and knowledge. Thank you for your response.

enda1 wrote: »

I think you can "disown" your parents in order to be considered as financially independent.

Do you know how? That would be very useful.

who the fug wrote: »

Send these people an email, there may know of some grants

http://www.isea.ie/contact_us.htm

Might be some info here

http://www.indobase.com/study-abroad/countries/spain/study-expenses.html

Suggest you try every angle on google to see if you can get a grant

Thank your for those details, I'll look through it now!

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Why dont you work where you get there or work during the summer before it? That's what everyone in my year did, many of them didnt have their parents pay for them.

There would be something wrong with the system if it was paid for. Is this actually for real? Junkies get medical cards, never touch drugs yourself have you? no drink? no cigs? You students are funny.

Why don't I work when I get there? I said before in one of my earlier posts, who can I be assured of work? I have sent emails to several bars and hostels and unfortunately have not gotten a reply. Yes it is for real. Although what I do in my own private life is none of your business I will tell you that yes I have tried marijuana. I have also seen a family member go down a very dark road in terms of drug use. I drink occasionally and through some miracle I haven't developed an expensive addiction to it that forced the state to give me a medical card. And no I don't smoke. If what you're getting at is that I maintain some kind of opulent party lifestyle and am complaining because its left me with no money to pay for college you are wrong. I don't see how comparing my social life to a junky's addiction is relevant to this thread or conducive to me finding a resolution. A lot of "us students" just want a degree and a job.

jam_mac_jam · 09-06-2011 02:29PM

I-Shot-Jr wrote: »

I'm looking into it now, trawling through the information, its slow going but hopefully I'll be able to uncover some useful information to me! You're right I think, I should probable prepare some kind of angle and go in again once I have more information and knowledge. Thank you for your response.

Do you know how? That would be very useful.

Thank your for those details, I'll look through it now!

Why don't I work when I get there? I said before in one of my earlier posts, who can I be assured of work? I have sent emails to several bars and hostels and unfortunately have not gotten a reply. Yes it is for real. Although what I do in my own private life is none of your business I will tell you that yes I have tried marijuana. I have also seen a family member go down a very dark road in terms of drug use. I drink occasionally and through some miracle I haven't developed an expensive addiction to it that forced the state to give me a medical card. And no I don't smoke. If what you're getting at is that I maintain some kind of opulent party lifestyle and am complaining because its left me with no money to pay for college you are wrong. I don't see how comparing my social life to a junky's addiction is relevant to this thread or conducive to me finding a resolution. A lot of "us students" just want a degree and a job.

No, I dont think you maintain some sort of opulent lifestyle, I just dont get what junkies have to do with anything. you may notice I removed the comment as I thought it was a little harsh. I still think you or your parents should pay for your education not me, sorry. I was a student myself and paid for it as will my kids, you already get free fees and you are on here moaning because you have to pay for going away for a year, jesus christ listen to yourself.

There's seriously something wrong with the system.

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