There's seriously something wrong with the system.

I-Shot-Jr

I apologize in advance for the shameless rant that I am about to unleash on to the unsuspecting folk of after hours...

I am a twenty year old man, I go to college and I rent an apartment. To pay for these, I work part time and I just about cover most of my expenses. Given that I work for just above the minimum wage I'm sure you can understand that it's a little difficult to get by even at the best of times. Now I don't want to paint a picture of a destitute student because I'm not, the rent is always paid and there's generally enough to eat in the fridge and I would have happily accepted this situation until I finished college however here is where my rant begins.

To complete my degree, I have to go abroad for a year on erasmus. There is no way around this, nothing that can be arranged, NADA. If I want a degree I have to go. Ordinarily this would be fantastic, its a great oppurtunity that most people won't get and most people in my year are delighted, excited to be going away. I however am fecked. Given my limited means, there is no way in hell I can afford to go away. It just wouldn't work, they give you a small grant but that just about covers the registration fee. I am lucky in one respect that I can work full time over the summer and the hours are there but I just do not have enough time to save up for college. I applied for a student loan to cover my expenses but that was denied. Fair enough, the bank reckoned it was a bad idea to give me a load of money to let me leave the country. So as a last resort I went to the council about getting a grant. Apparently because I'm only 20 they would have to assess my parent's incomes. Information I don't have access to (long story) as I've been independent of both of them for a few years now. According to the lady at the council I would need a letter from the HSE and in her words prove that my mam "Hit me or something" in order to get a grant.

Now this grinds my gears like you wouldn't believe, here I am doing my very best to pay my way through college, and maintain as much financial independence as possible. I don't want to be a leech on the state. I don't want to be a leech full stop. I just need help. Yet I'm being refused it because I haven't a letter from a farcical institution that happily gives medical cards and free transport to junkies. The worst is I've seen plenty of people who have readily admitted to me that they are in better off positions than I am get grants. Many of these people have pissed it away on going out or holidays. I just don't get it. I really don't. I have no faith in the system whatsoever.

Rant over, I'm really sorry, I just needed to vent that.:mad:

Biggins

Sorry to see your in this tough situation.
I hope some here will post a few good possible suggestions. All the best.

I-Shot-Jr

Biggins wrote: »

Sorry to see your in this tough situation.
I hope some here will post a few good possible suggestions. All the best.

Thanks Biggins, I doubt there's much I can do at this stage but sure you never know what will happen. Thanks again for your support.

Donkey Oaty

I-Shot-Jr wrote: »

According to the lady at the council I would need a letter from the HSE and in her words prove that my mam "Hit me or something" in order to get a grant.

Jesus.

What's the advice from the Students' Union?

Nodin

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Jesus.

...yep. Contrary to the myth of 'leave school and then get rent/scratcher' its not that simple.

Badgermonkey

Unfortunately, you'll be corrupting the system further by asking your TD to intervene on your behalf, which is what I'd recommend you do.

SEPT 23 1989

The Irish system only works if you have nothing or have a lot

drunkmonkey

What's stopping you getting some part time work in the country you have to go to?
Head for the nearest Irish pub and they should set you straight.

Noo

Tough situation OP.

Is there anyone in your college you can talk to, course/department head, someone involved in sorting erasmus, surely you arent the first person ever to have financial trouble with this forced year away. And keep annoying everyone (nicely), visiting their offices and emailing them until you find someone willing to help or point you in the right direction of college grants. What happens if you cant afford to go? you automatically fail the year? I cant even describe how angry that thought is making me.

Also have you enough funding to make it over? Just get a part time job over there?

Ficheall

Would you be satisfied if the junkies didn't get free medical cards and transport? Or would you still be unhappy that you can't afford to go on the Erasmus that you agreed to go on when you signed up for the degree?
Doesn't the government already pay your 6k fees every year, as for everyone else?

Don't get me wrong, I feel for you - but I'm just playing devil's advocate...


edit: Also - this isn't the first time I've heard of someone being "forced" to go on Erasmus - does the college just not let people taking a BA instead of a BA Int. if they decide not to go abroad? I don't see why they should have any issue with that.

angelfire9

OP can you defer for a year i.e. take 12 months out to work your ass off and save money for the ERASMUS in 2012?
I assume you are in UL?
Isn't there some medical thing that you can get a cert from your doctor stating that you can't go abroad for 12 months because you have a medical condition that needs monitoring or you're on a waiting list for a procedure

I have a vague recollection from when I was in college of people getting out of ERASMUS in UL via doctor's letters

snubbleste

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What's stopping you getting some part time work in the country you have to go to?
Head for the nearest Irish pub and they should set you straight.

Exactly. Erasmus students coming to Ireland had to get jobs as their home country's grants system was not very generous.

Aldebaran

Have you spoken to any of your lecturers or your course coordinator? I'm sure they don't want to see you fail and I'm sure they've encountered other students in similar situations before.

Noo

Ficheall wrote: »

Would you be satisfied if the junkies didn't get free medical cards and transport? Or would you still be unhappy that you can't afford to go on the Erasmus that you agreed to go on when you signed up for the degree?
Doesn't the government already pay your 6k fees every year, as for everyone else?

Don't get me wrong, I feel for you - but I'm just playing devil's advocate...

Thats a bit unfair, college is for 4ish years, things change. I started college in 2006 and finished in 2010...doesnt need a genius to work out the financial changes occuring during that time.

I-Shot-Jr

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Unfortunately, you'll be corrupting the system further by asking your TD to intervene on your behalf, which is what I'd recommend you do.

Absolutely, I'm not going to do that. I feel very strongly about using a TD, however I'm considering contacting a few and using my situation suggesting they overhaul the system.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The Irish system only works if you have nothing or have a lot

So true.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What's stopping you getting some part time work in the country you have to go to?
Head for the nearest Irish pub and they should set you straight.

Its a small enough town in Spain, there is an Irish bar I have tried contacting about work but theres been no reply. Given the employment issues Spain has, part time work would more than likely be scarce.

Noo wrote: »

Tough situation OP.

Is there anyone in your college you can talk to, course/department head, someone involved in sorting erasmus, surely you arent the first person ever to have financial trouble with this forced year away. And keep annoying everyone (nicely), visiting their offices and emailing them until you find someone willing to help or point you in the right direction of college grants. What happens if you cant afford to go? you automatically fail the year? I cant even describe how angry that thought is making me.

Also have you enough funding to make it over? Just get a part time job over there?

I've tried everything, year heads, international officer, SU. Nothing, apparently the people in my position either deferred or dropped out. In first year there was 60 of us, the fourth year that has just graduated had just 7. The third year gets rid of a lot of people.

I could probably get over there handily enough. However it would be too much of a gamble to hope for work. If it all failed I'd have to repeat the year in Spain whilst paying full fees. As you would imagine this would exacerbate the situation.

who the fug

This any use

Erasmus Programme 2007-2013


What country are you think about?

D1stant

Thats a tough gig, and Ruairi Quinn is going to make it tougher

Have you tried the credit union for the loan?

Noo

D1stant wrote: »

Thats a tough gig, and Ruairi Quinn is going to make it tougher

Have you tried the credit union for the loan?

Credit unions have interest only loans were you only pay off the interest for the first year or whatever time and then the actual loan after that, useful for people going abroad for a year or so.

TheZohanS

This might sound a bit crass but how about telling them that your parents are no longer with us? Surely if you can prove that you've been independent for a few years now they won't ask any more questions.

I-Shot-Jr

Ficheall wrote: »

Would you be satisfied if the junkies didn't get free medical cards and transport? Or would you still be unhappy that you can't afford to go on the Erasmus that you agreed to go on when you signed up for the degree?
Doesn't the government already pay your 6k fees every year, as for everyone else?

Don't get me wrong, I feel for you - but I'm just playing devil's advocate...


edit: Also - this isn't the first time I've heard of someone being "forced" to go on Erasmus - does the college just not let people taking a BA instead of a BA Int. if they decide not to go abroad? I don't see why they should have any issue with that.

To an extent yes, I think there is a lot wrong with how we go about dealing with junkies in this country, different topic for a different thread though.

Yes the government pays my fees, although given that I contribute to the exchequer (however small my contribution is) and that once I secure my degree and get a job I feel the government should get back an awful lot more out of me than they would giving a medical card to someone scabbing for change at a luas stop so they can get their next fix.

There is no way around it, its a relatively new course in my college, and there is no third year in my college. (Btw to the poster who asked if I was in UL I'm not I'm in Tallaght!)

Ficheall

Fair enough, I suppose.

Is there even an option just to go for one semester?
Also - Erasmus students almost never fail, and you seem like you'll actually put some work in, so I wouldn't worry about having to repeat.

And Spain is cheaper than Ireland, to the best of my knowledge, so it might not be as bad as you think? What extra expenses are you expecting to incur - given that you're renting here already? Flights are dirt cheap. Cost of living over there probably less than here..

I-Shot-Jr

who the fug wrote: »

This any use

Erasmus Programme 2007-2013


What country are you think about?

Spain, and I hadn't seen this, I'll look into it right away. Thank you so much.

D1stant wrote: »

Thats a tough gig, and Ruairi Quinn is going to make it tougher

Have you tried the credit union for the loan?

Well I only have like 25 quid in the CU so I doubt they'll be able to do much for me.

TheZohan wrote: »

This might sound a bit crass but how about telling them that your parents are no longer with us? Surely if you can prove that you've been independent for a few years now they won't ask any more questions.

Would that work though? Honestly I wouldn't mind but surely they'd ask for death certs and the like?

I-Shot-Jr

Ficheall wrote: »

Fair enough, I suppose.

Is there even an option just to go for one semester?
Also - Erasmus students almost never fail, and you seem like you'll actually put some work in, so I wouldn't worry about having to repeat.

And Spain is cheaper than Ireland, to the best of my knowledge, so it might not be as bad as you think? What extra expenses are you expecting to incur - given that you're renting here already? Flights are dirt cheap. Cost of living over there probably less than here..

Unfortunately not, I have to go to for two semesters, and you're right, I'd work my balls off!

Yeah the rent seems reasonable enough and so does the cost of living, its just the college told us to have at least 6,000 going over. I'm looking more into it trying to do some sums but its hard to predict how much I'll need because given it's a relatively new country to me I'm not too sure what to expect living there!

Kevin Duffy

Can you make affidavits, show your housing/banking etc. history to show you have been independent/emancipated from your parents for a long time and challenge the decision on the grant?

The expression "your parents hit you" (or whatever it was) is, I'd guess, a crude paraphrase of some provision that you can qualify if you have left or been removed from the family home and are financially independent, whatever the reason.

I'd also check the exact regulations of the grant scheme and make a targeted challenge to have the terms of it applied correctly, it sounds quite unlikely that there is a simple cutoff for qualification, I'm sure all the circumstances can be taken into account.

enda1

I think you can "disown" your parents in order to be considered as financially independent.

who the fug

Send these people an email, there may know of some grants

http://www.isea.ie/contact_us.htm

Might be some info here

http://www.indobase.com/study-abroad/countries/spain/study-expenses.html


Suggest you try every angle on google to see if you can get a grant

prinz

I'd chance my arm contacting the Spanish embassy mate. It might come to nothing but I know some European countries give out scholarships to help finance study in their country.

Angeles

Jasus AH, you can be a resourceful bunch when you put your mind to it!, nearly 3 pages of post and not one mention of a fapaton for money.
dunno should be disappoint or impress!

Seachmall

You're 20 years old, why the hell are they asking about your parents income?!

I know that many 20 year olds get financial support from their parents (I do) but you are legally independent from them. They might as well ask what your neighbours' income is.

Bloody ridiculous.

I-Shot-Jr

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Can you make affidavits, show your housing/banking etc. history to show you have been independent/emancipated from your parents for a long time and challenge the decision on the grant?

The expression "your parents hit you" (or whatever it was) is, I'd guess, a crude paraphrase of some provision that you can qualify if you have left or been removed from the family home and are financially independent, whatever the reason.

I'd also check the exact regulations of the grant scheme and make a targeted challenge to have the terms of it applied correctly, it sounds quite unlikely that there is a simple cutoff for qualification, I'm sure all the circumstances can be taken into account.

I'm looking into it now, trawling through the information, its slow going but hopefully I'll be able to uncover some useful information to me! You're right I think, I should probable prepare some kind of angle and go in again once I have more information and knowledge. Thank you for your response.

enda1 wrote: »

I think you can "disown" your parents in order to be considered as financially independent.

Do you know how? That would be very useful.

who the fug wrote: »

Send these people an email, there may know of some grants

http://www.isea.ie/contact_us.htm

Might be some info here

http://www.indobase.com/study-abroad/countries/spain/study-expenses.html


Suggest you try every angle on google to see if you can get a grant

Thank your for those details, I'll look through it now!

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Why dont you work where you get there or work during the summer before it? That's what everyone in my year did, many of them didnt have their parents pay for them.

There would be something wrong with the system if it was paid for. Is this actually for real? Junkies get medical cards, never touch drugs yourself have you? no drink? no cigs? You students are funny.

Why don't I work when I get there? I said before in one of my earlier posts, who can I be assured of work? I have sent emails to several bars and hostels and unfortunately have not gotten a reply. Yes it is for real. Although what I do in my own private life is none of your business I will tell you that yes I have tried marijuana. I have also seen a family member go down a very dark road in terms of drug use. I drink occasionally and through some miracle I haven't developed an expensive addiction to it that forced the state to give me a medical card. And no I don't smoke. If what you're getting at is that I maintain some kind of opulent party lifestyle and am complaining because its left me with no money to pay for college you are wrong. I don't see how comparing my social life to a junky's addiction is relevant to this thread or conducive to me finding a resolution. A lot of "us students" just want a degree and a job.

jam_mac_jam

I-Shot-Jr wrote: »

I'm looking into it now, trawling through the information, its slow going but hopefully I'll be able to uncover some useful information to me! You're right I think, I should probable prepare some kind of angle and go in again once I have more information and knowledge. Thank you for your response.



Do you know how? That would be very useful.



Thank your for those details, I'll look through it now!



Why don't I work when I get there? I said before in one of my earlier posts, who can I be assured of work? I have sent emails to several bars and hostels and unfortunately have not gotten a reply. Yes it is for real. Although what I do in my own private life is none of your business I will tell you that yes I have tried marijuana. I have also seen a family member go down a very dark road in terms of drug use. I drink occasionally and through some miracle I haven't developed an expensive addiction to it that forced the state to give me a medical card. And no I don't smoke. If what you're getting at is that I maintain some kind of opulent party lifestyle and am complaining because its left me with no money to pay for college you are wrong. I don't see how comparing my social life to a junky's addiction is relevant to this thread or conducive to me finding a resolution. A lot of "us students" just want a degree and a job.

No, I dont think you maintain some sort of opulent lifestyle, I just dont get what junkies have to do with anything. you may notice I removed the comment as I thought it was a little harsh. I still think you or your parents should pay for your education not me, sorry. I was a student myself and paid for it as will my kids, you already get free fees and you are on here moaning because you have to pay for going away for a year, jesus christ listen to yourself.

wild_cat

One my friends got around the parents and the age in the grant thing. All he had to do was get them to sign something that said they were totally rid of him from their lives.

Donkey Oaty

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

you already get free fees and you are on here moaning because you have to pay for going away for a year, jesus christ listen to yourself.

He wants a loan, not a hand-out.

jam_mac_jam

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

He wants a loan, not a hand-out.

well no, he is looking for a grant.

Donkey Oaty

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

well no, he is looking for a grant.

If you read the opening post, he originally tried to get a loan, and when that proved impossible he went down the grant route as a last resort.

prinz

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

you already get free fees and you are on here moaning because you have to pay for going away for a year, jesus christ listen to yourself.

That 'going away for a year' is not a fookin holiday or travelling junket. It's part of the degree course. He's not volunteering to go abroad when he doesn't have to.

Seachmall

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

you are on here moaning because you have to pay for going away for a year, jesus christ listen to yourself.

Actually he's moaning because he is being forced to go away for a year despite the fact he can't afford it, which is a valid thing to moan about imo.

I-Shot-Jr

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

No, I dont think you maintain some sort of opulent lifestyle, I just dont get what junkies have to do with anything. you may notice I removed the comment as I thought it was a little harsh. I still think you or your parents should pay for your education not me, sorry. I was a student myself and paid for it as will my kids, you already get free fees and you are on here moaning because you have to pay for going away for a year, jesus christ listen to yourself.

No I am complaining about how I think funds are being misspent. I agree, I should pay for my education, right now due to a change in circumstance I can't continue. The reason I use junkies is that they are an obvious drain on resources that could be spent elsewhere, I also mentioned that a lot of grants currently awarded are to people who don't need them perhaps this example is more pertinent to my argument however you are fixated on the junky aspect of it. I don't appreciate the tone of your argument, you seem to insinuate that I am some spoiled brat who can't go on a holiday. I am not. I simply want a degree.

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

He wants a loan, not a hand-out.

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

well no, he is looking for a grant.

I'd happily pay back anything given to me, the only reason I am looking for a grant is because I can't get a loan. My application for a grant is my last resort.

Cill Dara Abu

Take out the €25 you have in the Credit Union and buy 25 €1 scratchcards, You'll never know

Alter-Ego

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

Take out the €25 you have in the Credit Union and buy 25 €1 scratchcards, You'll never know

Stupid Idea!


Put it on a horse.


Have you been into a Citizens Information office to explain your situation regarding your parents and how its stopping you getting a grant? They'd be able to point you in the direction you need to go to prove that you're financially independent.

I-Shot-Jr

Alter-Ego wrote: »

Stupid Idea!


Put it on a horse.


Have you been into a Citizens Information office to explain your situation regarding your parents and how its stopping you getting a grant? They'd be able to point you in the direction you need to go to prove that you're financially independent.

I'm actually going to head into an office right now. I'l report back with my findings!

jam_mac_jam

I-Shot-Jr wrote: »

No I am complaining about how I think funds are being misspent. I agree, I should pay for my education, right now due to a change in circumstance I can't continue. The reason I use junkies is that they are an obvious drain on resources that could be spent elsewhere, I also mentioned that a lot of grants currently awarded are to people who don't need them perhaps this example is more pertinent to my argument however you are fixated on the junky aspect of it. I don't appreciate the tone of your argument, you seem to insinuate that I am some spoiled brat who can't go on a holiday. I am not. I simply want a degree.




I'd happily pay back anything given to me, the only reason I am looking for a grant is because I can't get a loan. My application for a grant is my last resort.

Appologies, easy for me to say and all that. It was easier in my day to get loans and I got a few ,so sorry, I will stop now. Good luck with it.

Aoifey!

If all else fails you could always take a year out, work your ass off, and then head off the next year. Not ideal at all but it is an option.

who the fug

Let us know how you get on, don't forget to do a google for grants in Spainish.

sbsquarepants

Aoifey! wrote: »

If all else fails you could always take a year out, work your ass off, and then head off the next year. Not ideal at all but it is an option.

This! It's not just an option, it's the screamingly obvious solution to your problem. Of course you'd prefer if someone else, like the council for example, just stumped up the cash and you didn't have to bother doing it, and sure who wouldn't! But that doesn't mean the system is shít, far from it.
You've said already there is work there for you, do it for a year, then go to spain. What's the problem? The system has served you well up to now, you've effectively had a free ride up till now at tax payers expense - yes i know you work but you said yourself that money goes on food, rent and so on. Why do you think anyone else works if not for food and rent etc? I would much rather there was some sort of grant scheme that covered my expenses so i didn't have to give up 9 or 10 hours of every week day. But there's not so i work for the money, does that mean the system sucks?
I mean honestly man, you sound clever enough - you must see you've nothing to be moaning about here.

who the fug

What is most annoying about this thread, is if the opening poster had gone to a private school , he would have the contacts to get a grant or a busary without having to come on Boards and subject him or her self to all the above.

westies4ever

Noo wrote: »

Credit unions have interest only loans were you only pay off the interest for the first year or whatever time and then the actual loan after that, useful for people going abroad for a year or so.

This is not typical of all credit unions - i work for one and we don't do this. However, they would be def worth talking to, mine does student loans of €5k per year, you need a parent to go guar though. Payments are generally low - say €20pw and they are more understanding of circumstances than the bank.

Just remember each Credit Union is different and has their own lending policy.

Tehachapi

Did your mam really hit you?

Dublin_Gunner

Seachmall wrote: »

You're 20 years old, why the hell are they asking about your parents income?!

I know that many 20 year olds get financial support from their parents (I do) but you are legally independent from them. They might as well ask what your neighbours' income is.

Bloody ridiculous.

Because if you're in 3rd level education, your parents are still legally, financially responsible for you though you're over 18.

Mother can still get child benefit for instance while he's there (and probably is - I'd call and ask her for the money 150x12monthsx3years=5400, should cover it).

languagenerd

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Mother can still get child benefit for instance while he's there (and probably is - I'd call and ask her for the money 150x12monthsx3years=5400, should cover it).

Not anymore. That was phased out two years ago. The day I turned 18, my parents stopped receiving benefit. In fact, it stopped the day I finished school, I had to get the university to sign for me so that they could get it for the last three months (I was 17 at the start of my first year).

mariaf24

Hi OP,

I believe you will not be assessed on your parents income if you go to your solicitor and draw up an avidavit (sp)? stating that you are completely indepedednt etc.

I never got any help myself in uni (I dont mean to sound as if i expected to get this and that etc) but i remember really really struggling as i had a small baby and wasnt dependent on parents while others in my class seemed to get help right left and centre, most while still living at home and happily drank the entire grant.
I remember being really angry about it at the time.

I did get an avidavit eventually which helped for the actual student grant provided by the college. The Students union in UCC were brilliant and very informative i remember. You should try speaking to your welfare officer.

Good luck with everything