Building regulation regarding window restrictors

sas · 05-06-2011 11:32PM #1

Is it a legal requirement that upstairs windows (under certain circumstances) are fitted with restricters to prevent the windows opening more than 100mm?

I full appreciate that it makes perfect sense to avoid the kids throwing themselves out the window.

Struggling to find anything concrete online.

As usual, I'm very grateful for any help.

SAS

muffler · 06-06-2011 12:27AM

Section 1.5.6. (e) Technical Guidance Document B

The opening section of the window should be
secured by means of fastenings which are readily
openable from the inside and should be fitted
with safety restrictors. Safety restrictors can be
either an integral part of the window operating
gear or separate items of hardware which can be
fitted to a window at the time of manufacture or
at installation. Restrictors should operate so that
they limit the initial movement of an opening
section to not more than 100 mm. Lockable
handles or restrictors, which can only be
released by removable keys or other tools,
should not be fitted to window opening sections.

sas · 06-06-2011 01:08AM

muffler wrote: »

Section 1.5.6. (e) Technical Guidance Document B

So could lockable handles that keep the window fully closed be used? The assumption being that the key is a permanent part of the lock.

muffler · 06-06-2011 11:04AM

sas wrote: »

So could lockable handles that keep the window fully closed be used? The assumption being that the key is a permanent part of the lock.

Well, unless you plan to glue the key into the lock you wont find this type of system available anywhere

BigGeorge · 06-06-2011 02:07PM

Is there a BS/EN for such a restrictor design?

sinnerboy · 06-06-2011 07:11PM

There is a BS referenced to this one. This is the type I've seen most often. You go to open the window and it stops until you disengage this chappy. ( Can be done easily by hand )

heinbloed · 06-06-2011 07:20PM

There is no EN standard for something the like.
I saw these things the first time in Ireland.

A "guideline" - be it technical or whatever - is by no means legally binding. Guidelines are for the blind. The others stick to the building regulations.

sas · 06-06-2011 11:37PM

Ok, so are restrictors legally required or not?

I'm not familiar with the relationship between tgd and building regulations.

muffler · 07-06-2011 01:02AM

heinbloed wrote: »

There is no EN standard for something the like.
I saw these things the first time in Ireland.

A "guideline" - be it technical or whatever - is by no means legally binding. Guidelines are for the blind. The others stick to the building regulations.

Ignore that post ^. Sarcasm at it's worst.

The TGD's will give you an example of how to comply with building regs but do not necessarily rule out alternative products/methods.

Restrictors of some sort have to be fitted to comply with building regs - Technical Guidance Document B outlines, the rule, the reasoning and an example. Should you choose to opt for an alternative method of compliance then you need to show proof of compliance if required by Building Control and/or Fire Dept.

Mellor · 07-06-2011 02:27AM

heinbloed wrote: »

There is no EN standard for something the like.
I saw these things the first time in Ireland.

A "guideline" - be it technical or whatever - is by no means legally binding. Guidelines are for the blind. The others stick to the building regulations.

Terrible post that's really rather ignorant.

The TGDs are guideline on how to comply with the law. There are other routes permitted for many areas, but I fail to see where they apply regarding restrictors. Seeing as there is also a requiremnet for escape windows, each of thes require a restrictor. I cannot think of a single way to comply with the law without them.

kayos · 07-06-2011 09:08AM

Mellor wrote: »

There are other routes permitted for many areas, but I fail to see where they apply regarding restrictors. Seeing as there is also a requiremnet for escape windows, each of thes require a restrictor. I cannot think of a single way to comply with the law without them.

I was thinking that was one of the regs. That upstairs you need windows that people can get out of in the case of fire etc. makes no sense that you would have to fit a device that prevents those windows opening enough for people to get out.

martinn123 · 07-06-2011 10:10AM

kayos wrote: »

I was thinking that was one of the regs. That upstairs you need windows that people can get out of in the case of fire etc. makes no sense that you would have to fit a device that prevents those windows opening enough for people to get out.

It seems a bit confusing, but maybe thats just me......... I have seldom seen these restrictors fitted as the Reg's concerning Fire Escape is usually quoted......... my understanding is that the opening has to be of a minimum size....and the hinge allow the window to open past 90deg.... so the restrictor would appear to go against this rule.......can someone clarify?

In addition handles have been mentioned........I assume in a bedroom the handle has to be non locking, i.e no key just push button......am I correct?

In UK they use a luminous button so that the handle can be found in the dark/ smoke etc.

Have to admit I am confused

Gulliver · 07-06-2011 10:48AM

martinn123 wrote: »

It seems a bit confusing, but maybe thats just me......... I have seldom seen these restrictors fitted as the Reg's concerning Fire Escape is usually quoted......... my understanding is that the opening has to be of a minimum size....and the hinge allow the window to open past 90deg.... so the restrictor would appear to go against this rule.......can someone clarify?

In addition handles have been mentioned........I assume in a bedroom the handle has to be non locking, i.e no key just push button......am I correct?

In UK they use a luminous button so that the handle can be found in the dark/ smoke etc.

Have to admit I am confused

The restrictor is not to stop the window from opening fully, but to make it more difficult for a child to do so. First attempt opens the window 100mm, then you can reach in to the frame and pop the restrictor and it can open fully. Hopefully the child doesn't see you doing it or figure it out.

The only thing I can think of is in case of a fire I'd be hoping to get to the kids because they wouldn't be able to open the window themselves and would be too panicked to take instructions on how to do it.

martinn123 · 07-06-2011 10:56AM

Gulliver wrote: »

The restrictor is not to stop the window from opening fully, but to make it more difficult for a child to do so. First attempt opens the window 100mm, then you can reach in to the frame and pop the restrictor and it can open fully. Hopefully the child doesn't see you doing it or figure it out.

The only thing I can think of is in case of a fire I'd be hoping to get to the kids because they wouldn't be able to open the window themselves and would be too panicked to take instructions on how to do it.

Thanks for clarifying that, seems the requirment is well founded to stop children opening a window and falling out, but as you describe how do they escape in a fire situation.....to me its one regulation working in contradiction of another.Question.....do these regs apply to new build only or to replacment....and from what date.......my home was completed a few years ago, I do not have the restrictors, yet I got all the Certs required.

sinnerboy · 07-06-2011 11:57AM

I agree the regs are conflicting if not confusing here. Bear in mind that means of escape windows also have requirements for the cill height not to be too low together with minimum size of opening. Max 800mm floor to cill.

A very difficult case in point is the attic conversion for which Part B dictates a min distance from window cill to roof edge. (1700mm) Recognizing this Part B (Fire) allows a reduction of the permissible floor to cill dim of 600mm to such windows. When you see this in real life it IS scary. The risk of falling is all too evident. And we still have Part K ( stairs + guarding / protection from falls ) requiring all openings within less then 800mm from the floor to be guarded. A compromise of my own is to have fitted across the opening an easily removable section of handrail at 800mm high. ( Not elegant) .

Now the following is a classic case of do as I say not as I do. My little twins were a pair of Spidermen. I saw the risk of finding them splatted on my rear patio far more immediate than the risk of fire. So I locked the windows in their bedroom. ( 2nd hand house not compliant ) . If I had these restrictors fitted I would have used them.

muffler · 07-06-2011 12:11PM

martinn123 wrote: »

to me its one regulation working in contradiction of another.

It is. But its a juggling act so as to have the openings of sufficient size and height of floor but also to ensure safety for youngsters. Not a perfect solution but Im sure they would be open to all suggestions.

martinn123 wrote: »

Question.....do these regs apply to new build only or to replacment....and from what date.......my home was completed a few years ago, I do not have the restrictors, yet I got all the Certs required.

The regs apply to all windows now - new build or replacement windows in an extension/refurb.

I cant be sure of the date that they became a requirement but I think it was 2008

sinnerboy · 07-06-2011 12:30PM

From Part B 2006 -

Transitional Arrangements
This document applies to the design of works, or buildings
in which a material change of use takes place, where the
works or the change of use commence or takes place, as
the case may be on or after 1 June 2006 except where-
(1) a planning application is made on or before 31 May
2006 for planning permission or approval pursuant to
the Planning and Development Act 2000 (No. 30 of
2000), or
(2) a notice pursuant to the provisions of Part 8 of the
Planning and Development Regulations 2001 (No. 600
of 2001) is published on or before 31 May 2006, or
(3) a Fire Safety Certificate under the Building Control
Regulations, 1997 has been granted on or before 31
May 2006
provided substantial work has been completed on or
before 31 May 2009.

Mellor · 09-06-2011 12:58AM

kayos wrote: »

I was thinking that was one of the regs. That upstairs you need windows that people can get out of in the case of fire etc. makes no sense that you would have to fit a device that prevents those windows opening enough for people to get out.

that's not what it does, if if did it would breach the regs

martinn123 wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying that, seems the requirment is well founded to stop children opening a window and falling out, but as you describe how do they escape in a fire situation.....to me its one regulation working in contradiction of another.

I disagree that they are in conflict.

The restrictor regulation is there to prevent small children from falling out. The device itself is very simple.

Any child who is too young to operate the restrictor, it far too young to be climbing out an escape window in case of a fire on their own. They simply wouldn't be physically able, its a c.3500 drop remember. If they are old enough to have the confidance, and strength to climb out, they be have no problem operating the restrictor.

martinn123 · 09-06-2011 09:27AM

Mellor wrote: »

The restrictor regulation is there to prevent small children from falling out. The device itself is very simple.

Any child who is too young to operate the restrictor, it far too young to be climbing out an escape window in case of a fire on their own. They simply wouldn't be physically able, its a c.3500 drop remember. If they are old enough to have the confidance, and strength to climb out, they be have no problem operating the restrictor.

Again thanks for the clarification....I seem to remember reading some background to these reg's and it mentioned with regard to the size of the opening it took into account the possible need for a fully equipted fire-fighter gaining access from outside........would the restrictor have any bearing on this ?

I wonder how well known this Reg is if it refers to new build and renewal for the past few years......... anyone who has had windows changed recently........did this restrictor feature???......other than the OP....

I supplied windows 2 yrs ago for a renovation to a youth hostel, to an Arch spec..........no mention of restrictors, about 12 bedrooms involved....

muffler · 09-06-2011 09:47AM

martinn123 wrote: »

for a fully equipted fire-fighter gaining access from outside........would the restrictor have any bearing on this ?

Nope. No effect at all as they can be easily released from either inside or outside......in fact a slight bit easier from the outside.

archtech · 09-06-2011 11:00AM

martinn123 wrote: »

I supplied windows 2 yrs ago for a renovation to a youth hostel, to an Arch spec..........no mention of restrictors, about 12 bedrooms involved....

As a youth hostel is a non domestic dwelling, it would/should have been subject to a fire safety certificate and generally speaking the fire safety strategy of most buildings, would normally not involve means of escape via escape windows.

martinn123 · 09-06-2011 11:30AM

archtech wrote: »

As a youth hostel is a non domestic dwelling, it would/should have been subject to a fire safety certificate and generally speaking the fire safety strategy of most buildings, would normally not involve means of escape via escape windows.

That makes sense, as I also supplied fire escape doors........Thanks.....So the restrictors apply only in the residential market, and on new build and replacement, ........so to repeat my outstanding question........Anyone get new windows recently........were there restrictors on the bedrooms??? ( I'll assume all new build, under Architectural Inspection comply )..........Not sure if there will be many replies in this Forum, so I might post a thread in DIY, where there are lots of posts on replacement windows.

sinnerboy · 09-06-2011 11:54AM

The guys not from Ulster , Leinster or Connaught

have been fitting them as standard for some years now.

martinn123 · 09-06-2011 01:48PM

sinnerboy wrote: »

The guys not from Ulster , Leinster or Connaught have been fitting them as standard for some years now.

Well Done.........But are they fitted Globaly........are they Glazed in all Weather....... Are they fitted by members of the Upper House.......or if you buy your Frames direct......are they Developed in the New World, ......how do they Apeer.........finally are they a Fair Co.

Gulliver · 09-06-2011 02:15PM

martinn123 wrote: »

Well Done.........But are they fitted Globaly........are they Glazed in all Weather....... Are they fitted by members of the Upper House.......or if you buy your Frames direct......are they Developed in the New World, ......how do they Apeer.........finally are they a Fair Co.

Speak English! You're code-talking about sex, right?:D

On topic though, is there any reason why these don't appear on tilt and turn windows? Is it because the first mechanism is the tilt and the child may not be able to figure out the turn part?

sas · 09-06-2011 02:20PM

Gulliver wrote: »

Speak English! You're code-talking about sex, right?:D

On topic though, is there any reason why these don't appear on tilt and turn windows? Is it because the first mechanism is the tilt and the child may not be able to figure out the turn part?

The tilt isn't the first mechanism on mine. Mine are german.

Gulliver · 09-06-2011 02:27PM

sas wrote: »

The tilt isn't the first mechanism on mine. Mine are german.

Oh. Well that blows my theory out of the water. Are there restrictors on your windows?

sas · 09-06-2011 03:10PM

Gulliver wrote: »

Oh. Well that blows my theory out of the water. Are there restrictors on your windows?

Never ceases to amaze me the timing on boards!

I've just had a phone call on this.

My window company can't supply a restrictor as used by the crowd down south.

Currently they (Irish agent) have modified a restrictor that comes with the window to prevent it opening passed 90 degrees i.e. it now prevents it opening passed approx 20 degrees. There is a question mark over the modification though because it may cause window damage over time if not reset perfectly (which is a manual task) after it is opened.

They also have the following option.
There is a handle available that will (as you described) tilt the window first. This was apparently developed for german schools. The opening mechanism is then protected by a key, which means it can't be used in this instance either.

It would appear (???) that this particular restrictor is a requirement of this part of Europe only.

Gulliver · 09-06-2011 03:25PM

sas wrote: »

Never ceases to amaze me the timing on boards!

I've just had a phone call on this.

My window company can't supply a restrictor as used by the crowd down south.

Currently they (Irish agent) have modified a restrictor that comes with the window to prevent it opening passed 90 degrees i.e. it now prevents it opening passed approx 20 degrees. There is a question mark over the modification though because it may cause window damage over time if not reset perfectly (which is a manual task) after it is opened.

They also have the following option.
There is a handle available that will (as you described) tilt the window first. This was apparently developed for german schools. The opening mechanism is then protected by a key, which means it can't be used in this instance either.

It would appear (???) that this particular restrictor is a requirement of this part of Europe only.

Hmmm. My supplier (D) just said "they're not needed for tilt and turn windows" and I took them at their word.

So our Southern friends put them on their tilt and turns?

sas · 09-06-2011 04:37PM

Gulliver wrote: »

So our Southern friends put them on their tilt and turns?

Sorry my bad, I was referring to their standard windows.

sinnerboy · 09-06-2011 05:47PM

The mods have consulted and whereas to protect the forum from blatant promotion or advertising of products , naming companies is not permitted ..... in the context of this discussion , we have decided to relax the rule.

So name away

Building regulation regarding window restrictors

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