Isa Nacewa - World Cup??

desertcircus · 27-05-2011 12:49AM

Perhaps I phrased it badly: it would be worth considering a rule whereby an internationally capped player who's been called up by his country can freely choose whether or not to play, but would not be allowed to play for his club while his country is playing.

Nacewa's the obvious counterpoint, but his situation doesn't take away from the fact that the island nations in particular have real difficulty getting all their players for World Cups, thanks in no small part to clubs pressuring them. Remove the incentive for the clubs to lean on their players and you create a more level playing field. The situation of the island nations (and Argentina to a lesser extent) has to be changed, and one of the things that has to change is the relative disadvantage when it comes to calling up players.

In soccer, a country's matches take absolute precedence, and a club and player can be hit with heavy fines and suspended for refusing to play. I think that by and large, that's not a bad idea. Yeah, it would cost major clubs the services of certain players now and again (and let's not go wild here; the sum total of, say, Nacewa's absence under this rule would be one World Cup every four years, along with the occasional tour) but if the IRB are serious about developing lower-tier nations, they have to protect those nations against having their best players unavailable.

anonymous_joe · 27-05-2011 02:31AM

tolosenc wrote: »

Hadn't heard that. It's a shame.

It's not really. The situation there's a disgrace.

Gracelessly Tom · 27-05-2011 09:08AM

anonymous_joe wrote: »

It's not really. The situation there's a disgrace.

I think what Tolosenc meant was it's a shame they won't have a full team, not it's a shame NZ won't let the Fijian military personnel into the country.

KingEnda · 27-05-2011 09:15AM

Leroy Lita wrote: »

After such a good season with Leinster, surely Fiji will pick Isa Nacewa in their squad for the world cup? Isa would have surely been good enough to be an All Black
why has he only played once for Fiji?

Whats does he need to do to play for Ireland? Is it possible for the future?

Staplor · 27-05-2011 09:20AM

KingEnda wrote: »

Whats does he need to do to play for Ireland? Is it possible for the future?

Did you even read the thread?

almighty1 · 27-05-2011 09:42AM

KingEnda wrote: »

Whats does he need to do to play for Ireland? Is it possible for the future?

He isnt and can never be qualified. He has already played for Fiji.

skregs · 27-05-2011 05:38PM

KingEnda wrote: »

Whats does he need to do to play for Ireland?

A DeLorean and 1.21 jiggawatts

PhatPiggins · 27-05-2011 05:47PM

skregs wrote: »

A DeLorean and 1.21 jiggawatts

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Classic

PhatPiggins · 27-05-2011 05:51PM

desertcircus wrote: »

Perhaps I phrased it badly: it would be worth considering a rule whereby an internationally capped player who's been called up by his country can freely choose whether or not to play, but would not be allowed to play for his club while his country is playing.

Nacewa's the obvious counterpoint, but his situation doesn't take away from the fact that the island nations in particular have real difficulty getting all their players for World Cups, thanks in no small part to clubs pressuring them. Remove the incentive for the clubs to lean on their players and you create a more level playing field. The situation of the island nations (and Argentina to a lesser extent) has to be changed, and one of the things that has to change is the relative disadvantage when it comes to calling up players.

QUOTE]

So if he doesn't want to play for his country then he can't play for his club during the internationals? Don't think thats very realistic.

tolosenc · 27-05-2011 06:05PM

Yeah. And what about players who call time on their international careers? If the likes of BOD and POC said after this RWC that they would no longer play for Ireland, they'd then be inelligible to play for Munster/Leinster during the 6N, despite haveing amassed the guts of 200 caps between them?

twinytwo · 27-05-2011 07:03PM

tolosenc wrote: »

Fiji will pick him. And then he'll say no. He doesn't want to play for Fiji. End of.

but he cant play for anyone else now... and its a wc. I mean if he dosent want to play international thats fine but you would be hard pushed to find a player who wouldnt want to play international rugby given the chance.

Staplor · 27-05-2011 07:26PM

twinytwo wrote: »

but he cant play for anyone else now... and its a wc. I mean if he dosent want to play international thats fine but you would be hard pushed to find a player who wouldnt want to play international rugby given the chance.

Given the situation would you play for Fiji. I wouldn't.

WeeBushy · 27-05-2011 08:30PM

twinytwo wrote: »

but he cant play for anyone else now... and its a wc. I mean if he dosent want to play international thats fine but you would be hard pushed to find a player who wouldnt want to play international rugby given the chance.

I'm sure he'd love to play international rugby, but considering how it happened that he is only eligible for Fiji he has no interest in playing for them, which is his only option. Were I in his position I would make the same decision. It's a shame such a great player won't be seen on the biggest stage but as a Leinster fan I'm quite happy he wont be

JustinDee · 27-05-2011 09:15PM

By the way, he wasn't tricked. Was young, miles from anything like playing for NZ and took a tilt at intl rugby by playing for another country he qualified for.
'Saan er livet' (thats life)

desertcircus · 27-05-2011 09:47PM

Retirement is a different kettle of fish. This isn't some insane pie-in-the-sky idea, it's how the world's most popular sport works. If countries are losing their players to their clubs, then rebalancing is needed. What makes it a perfectly simple and usable system for the two hundred countries who play football but excessively complicated for the two dozen playing professional rugby?

desertcircus · 27-05-2011 09:49PM

I should clarify: what I'm proposing is actually a milder version of what happens in football. As far as I know a national FA can demand the release of a player with no prospect of the club being able to keep them. They don't tend to call people who don't want to play, because they're not much use. They use it to force the hand of clubs that don't want to release players.

tolosenc · 27-05-2011 10:11PM

desertcircus wrote: »

Retirement is a different kettle of fish. This isn't some insane pie-in-the-sky idea, it's how the world's most popular sport works. If countries are losing their players to their clubs, then rebalancing is needed. What makes it a perfectly simple and usable system for the two hundred countries who play football but excessively complicated for the two dozen playing professional rugby?

Yeah, but in football, how often do you hear of players missing international ties due to dubious injuries? And it's only for competitive matches, of which there are generally only 5 a year.

Playing internationally is an honour. If you don't want it, you shouldn't be obliged to play. If you don't respect it (i.e. choosing to stay at you club), then maybe you don't deserve it.

twinytwo wrote: »

but he cant play for anyone else now... and its a wc. I mean if he dosent want to play international thats fine but you would be hard pushed to find a player who wouldnt want to play international rugby given the chance.

I'm sure he'd love to play in the world cup, or just international rugby. He just doesn't want to play for Fiji as a result of the history. Fiji betrayed him. I'm sure he'd jump if the All Blacks (hopefully he'd love to represent us too) called him up.

PhatPiggins · 27-05-2011 10:20PM

desertcircus wrote: »

Retirement is a different kettle of fish. This isn't some insane pie-in-the-sky idea, it's how the world's most popular sport works. If countries are losing their players to their clubs, then rebalancing is needed. What makes it a perfectly simple and usable system for the two hundred countries who play football but excessively complicated for the two dozen playing professional rugby?

I really really don't want to talk about pikeyball but how many on the lower tier countries get an unusual amount of players withdrawing with alleged injuries

It works fine for England, Brazil et al not so well for Wales,Ireland, all of the South African countries,etc.

desertcircus · 28-05-2011 09:02AM

Players who genuinely don't want to play for their countries won't get called up, for the very simple reason that they're worse than useless to the team. Players who want to play but are currently being prevented by their clubs will get called up.

Maybe clubs will try and claim the player is injured. Fine. Then they can't play for their club while their country is playing. If your country calls you up and you refuse to go, then you don't play rugby for anyone during that time.

There's a certain bias in place here, I suspect because of Isa Nacewa's situation. But not all players are in the same boat as Isa, and at any rate, his avowed lack of interest and attempt to have his Fijian cap annulled mean the Fijian union would probably not try to force him to go. There are other players who should have been playing at World Cups but didn't. Trevor Leota was interviewed as the Samoan squad's representative before the 2003 World Cup before suddenly pulling out along with Henry Tuilagi due to club commitments. Caucaunibuca has ruled himself out of Fiji's touring party this year. The island nations in particular tend to end up in a situation where their strongest players frequently aren't at the big tournaments with them because their clubs are leaning on them. Much as I'd hate to see Leinster deprived of Isa for a month of next season, it's a price we should be willing to play to ensure that Fiji, Samoa and Tonga have a fighting chance of performing at their best at the World Cup.

The IRB's responsibility isn't the welfare of the Magners League or even the situations of individual players; it's the health of the international game. Allowing tier two nations to be artificially weakened is a dereliction of duty.

hardCopy · 28-05-2011 10:50AM

Should we just suspend top tier club rugby during designated international windows? Then all players would be free to play for their country

durkadurka · 28-05-2011 02:23PM

No room in the calendar for it. We'd end up playing midweek games

thebaz · 06-06-2011 04:58PM

hopefully Isa decides to represent Fiji - and brighten up the WC

Fiji wont win WC , but could do well - he can then look back with fond memories , rather than the Roy Keane - wondering , what if ....

thomond2006 · 06-06-2011 05:30PM

Caucau apparently has made himself unavailable and Nalaga is off the rugby radar at the moment. Imagine a back three with Nacewa, Caucau and Nalaga all at 100%! :eek:

Nacewa should definitely go. He doesn't owe Leinster anything.

durkadurka · 06-06-2011 06:59PM

Hmmm some interesting comments on the BBC today:

Isa Nacewa unsure over World Cup role with Fiji

Barbarians hero Isa Nacewa does not know if he will be lining up for Fiji against Wales in the World Cup later this year.
Nacewa scored two tries in the Baa-Baas' 31-28 victory over Wales at the Millennium Stadium.
But the Leinster full-back, capped once by Fiji, has not yet decided whether to make himself available for the World Cup.
"It's been a long season so I've got a few decisions to make," Nacewa said.
"It's a decision I will be making over the next couple of weeks as to whether I get involved or not."
Nacewa was a member of Fiji's World Cup squad in 2003 and won his only cap as a replacement against Scotland.
In 2006 the Auckland-born player tried to switch allegiances from Fiji to New Zealand in order to represent the All Blacks.
However the International Rugby Board deemed his World Cup appearance made him ineligible to represent the country of his birth.
Since 2008 Nacewa has played for Leinster and has twice lifted the Heineken Cup with the Irish province.
And Nacewa has said he doubts whether his commitments with Leinster will allow him to take part in the World Cup.
"They [Fiji] have got a good squad anyway so I'll make an informed decision over the next couple of weeks," he said.
"I have made a huge commitment to Leinster.

Once the Welsh squad get all their players back and get a bit of time together I think they are going to be a huge force to be reckoned with

"Without our internationals at the start of next season it's going to be a tough ask for a lot of our younger guys.
"I think they are expecting me to be around and it's something I'll uphold if they want me to."
Wales will face Fiji in a World Cup pool match at the Waikato Stadium in Hamilton on 2 October, hoping history does not repeat itself.
Gareth Jenkins' side were famously eliminated from the competition four years ago after they lost 38-34 against the Fijians in Nantes.
But Nacewa does not foresee Fiji creating another shock result in New Zealand and believes Wales can be World Cup contenders.
"Once the Welsh squad get all their players back and get a bit of time together I think they are going to be a huge force to be reckoned with," added Nacewa.
"There are a lot of players out at the moment. When they come good I think they will be right there come World Cup time."

tolosenc · 06-06-2011 07:16PM

Don't go, Isa.

Fiji are going to be poor at the World Cup regardless, so why waste your time?

totallegend · 06-06-2011 07:25PM

tolosenc wrote: »

Don't go, Isa.

Fiji are going to be poor at the World Cup regardless, so why waste your time?

If Fiji got all their eligible players together, they would be a serious force to be reckoned with; Nacewa throwing his hat in would be a massive boost for them. If it encouraged a few other guys to turn up, all the better.

WeeBushy · 06-06-2011 07:38PM

Personally for him I would not hold it against him one bit if he decided to play in the WC. It is the WC after all, the pinnacle of a rugby player's career. He has given so much to Leinster that if he were to leave tomorrow I would wish him well. On the other hand, as a Leinster supporter I would be devastated as he is going to play a hugely important role in guiding the young backs next season. It must be a tough one for him; playing in a WC but for a nation with which you have no real affinity.

Whatever he decides to do I wish him the best of luck.

Helium · 06-06-2011 07:55PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Caucau apparently has made himself unavailable and Nalaga is off the rugby radar at the moment. Imagine a back three with Nacewa, Caucau and Nalaga all at 100%! :eek:

Nacewa should definitely go. He doesn't owe Leinster anything.

Bit of a silly comment to make. It's not as if Leinster are preventing him going or suggested he shouldn't.

durkadurka · 06-06-2011 08:18PM

There is a suggestion that they have an influence from the BBC article above.

Helium · 06-06-2011 08:45PM

durkadurka wrote: »

There is a suggestion that they have an influence from the BBC article above.

Don't see how you could interpret that Leinster are 'leaning' on him not to play for Fiji because of that comment.

Sounds like he just doesn't want to play for Fiji and using his commitment to Leinster as an excuse.

It's a pity if he doesn't play for Fiji as I think any World Cup is always the poorer if it's not showcasing all the top players.

Isa Nacewa - World Cup??

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