Isa Nacewa - World Cup??

Leroy Lita

After such a good season with Leinster, surely Fiji will pick Isa Nacewa in their squad for the world cup? Isa would have surely been good enough to be an All Black
why has he only played once for Fiji?

Podge_irl

Of course Fiji would pick up. It's entirely up to whether Nacewa wants to play for Fiji. He has no great love for them.

Leroy Lita

Podge_irl wrote: »

He has no great love for them.

why did he choose to play for them so?
if he bided his time then he would have been an All Black

totallegend

Leroy Lita wrote: »

After such a good season with Leinster, surely Fiji will pick Isa Nacewa in their squad for the world cup? Isa would have surely been good enough to be an All Black
Why has he only played once for Fiji?

He's a Kiwi of Fijian background rather than a native Fijian, but I think I remember him saying that when he joined up with them for the 2003 RWC, he was under the impression that even if he played for Fiji, he would later be eligible for NZ. When Fiji played here in 2009, it was floated that he would play for them and Nacewa shot them down.

irishbucsfan

Yeah he fought viciously against the ruling that made him a Fiji player.

Fiji brought him out as an injury replacement and told him he wouldn't be needed and if he was it wouldn't count anyway. He was brought on for 3 minutes and then when he returned to Auckland he was told he was no longer eligible for the All Blacks. The NZRU, Auckland and Nacewa all fought the ruling but Fiji fought to keep him. The ruling was upheld and he was no longer a Kiwi. I don't think he ever forgave them.

Podge_irl

Apparently he didn't know it would disqualify him from playing for the ABs. Bit silly of him but he was a rash youth, hardly the first and hardly the last.

tolosenc

Leroy Lita wrote: »

After such a good season with Leinster, surely Fiji will pick Isa Nacewa in their squad for the world cup? Isa would have surely been good enough to be an All Black
why has he only played once for Fiji?

Fiji will pick him. And then he'll say no. He doesn't want to play for Fiji. End of.

hardCopy

I wonder if CauCau will be picked/invited? He's fallen out with them previously IIRC.

PhatPiggins

tolosenc wrote: »

Fiji will pick him. And then he'll say no. He doesn't want to play for Fiji. End of.

He's already made himself available for the WC along with 26 other european based Fijians.

Whether he plays or not who knows.

CIARAN_BOYLE

PhatPiggins wrote: »

He's already made himself available for the WC along with 26 other european based Fijians.

Whether he plays or not who knows.

Has he? A few weeks ago he told an interviewer I just want to focus on Leinster when asked about. I assumed that he meant that he wasn't going to the WC cause he wanted to focus on Leinster.

If he makes himself available they will pick him imo, question is does he want to go

Podge_irl

So some sources claim. He gave an interview around the time of the semi-final where he said he was staying with Leinster during the RWC.

PhatPiggins

Maybe he's changed his mind since this was released:

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/fiji-goes-european-for-world-cup-20110421-1dq3s.html

There was a list of the players knocking around but I can't be (arsed) finding it.

I don't read the Leinster related press as religiously as you lads so I won't pretend to be an authority on the matter.

ChristopherUno

Podge_irl wrote: »

So some sources claim. He gave an interview around the time of the semi-final where he said he was staying with Leinster during the RWC.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0430/1224295759882.html
Here's the article, based on this it seems he won't be playing for Fiji.

Podge_irl

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Maybe he's changed his mind since this was released:

I'm not entirely sure he's made up his own mind tbh.

Amazotheamazing

While I understand why he doesn't want to play for Fiji, it'd be great to see him playing with them in the RWC. The RWC needs as many great players as it can get, imo, especially for the "minnow" teams.

Morf

Fiji aren't a minnow team. They just can't get players released for most international test windows.

They will be a very stiff test for most teams in the WC.

PhatPiggins

Morf wrote: »

Fiji aren't a minnow team. They just can't get players released for most international test windows.

They will be a very stiff test for most teams in the WC.

+1 they got progressively better with each game in the 2007 WC, which was probably the last time they had a full squad to pick from :mad:

Morf

A pretty good bet for a QF place.

WeeBushy

Not having a domestic league where they can keep their players really hampers them.

Gracelessly Tom

Morf wrote: »

A pretty good bet for a QF place.

Probably not this year. NZ government will not allow any Fijian military personnel into the country which apparently rules out a few of their players. They could end up being weaker than usual this time around.

Shame though, they are one of the best teams to watch come RWC time. Love watching them play.

d'Oracle

WeeBushy wrote: »

Not having a domestic league where they can keep their players really hampers them.

Like it hampers Argentina?

tolosenc

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

NZ government will not allow any Fijian military personnel into the country which apparently rules out a few of their players.

Hadn't heard that. It's a shame.

irishbucsfan

d'Oracle wrote: »

Like it hampers Argentina?

It does hamper Argentina! :pac:

hardCopy

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

Probably not this year. NZ government will not allow any Fijian military personnel into the country which apparently rules out a few of their players. They could end up being weaker than usual this time around.

Shame though, they are one of the best teams to watch come RWC time. Love watching them play.

That seems a bit mental, are they afraid of invasion?

Gracelessly Tom

hardCopy wrote: »

That seems a bit mental, are they afraid of invasion?

It's something to do with the coup there and the military government.

Maybe the new military government won't allow the Kiwis to poach any more Fijians!!

*edit - Here's a link that explains....
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10715732

danthefan

Morf wrote: »

Fiji aren't a minnow team. They just can't get players released for most international test windows.

They will be a very stiff test for most teams in the WC.

This would contravene IRB rules. All players from all nations must be released to international teams within test windows.

peterako

Maybe so.....but when clubs are paying the wages they can 'strongly suggest' that players not go

desertcircus

Players can simply refuse to turn out for their countries, which is frequently expected of Pacific Islanders. You don't do yourself any favours come contract time if you make an issue about wanting to play.

There is one thing the IRB could do to make it much more even; bar internationally capped players from playing club rugby while their countries are competing. Clubs convince the players to skip World Cups to serve their employers; the equation could change a bit if the player couldn't be used anyway.

CIARAN_BOYLE

desertcircus wrote: »

Players can simply refuse to turn out for their countries, which is frequently expected of Pacific Islanders. You don't do yourself any favours come contract time if you make an issue about wanting to play.

There is one thing the IRB could do to make it much more even; bar internationally capped players from playing club rugby while their countries are competing. Clubs convince the players to skip World Cups to serve their employers; the equation could change a bit if the player couldn't be used anyway.

bar internationally capped players from playing during international windows, what a blanket ban efffecting all internationals. Who would play for Leinster during the 6Ns

Some players just don't want to play international rugby or play for a patricular, Nacewa turned out once for Fiji and was tricked into it, you want the IRB to ban him from playing club rugby during international windows due to a stupid mistake.

WeeBushy

Yeah its a pretty bad idea. It would also discourage youngsters from accepting call ups to the national side as they will never be able to play for their club while international are going on, which are important opportunities for them. There are a lot of players who would be affect in Ireland, just for example.

PhatPiggins

danthefan wrote: »

This would contravene IRB rules. All players from all nations must be released to international teams within test windows.

The theory is wondeful isn't it but the reality is that clubs often sign Islanders on the provision that they don't play internationals when it clashes with whats best for the club. They obviously don't advertise the fact.

Ever watch a Fijian or Samoan test thats not being played in Europe or the WC? You'd do well to know 5 players.

desertcircus

Perhaps I phrased it badly: it would be worth considering a rule whereby an internationally capped player who's been called up by his country can freely choose whether or not to play, but would not be allowed to play for his club while his country is playing.

Nacewa's the obvious counterpoint, but his situation doesn't take away from the fact that the island nations in particular have real difficulty getting all their players for World Cups, thanks in no small part to clubs pressuring them. Remove the incentive for the clubs to lean on their players and you create a more level playing field. The situation of the island nations (and Argentina to a lesser extent) has to be changed, and one of the things that has to change is the relative disadvantage when it comes to calling up players.

In soccer, a country's matches take absolute precedence, and a club and player can be hit with heavy fines and suspended for refusing to play. I think that by and large, that's not a bad idea. Yeah, it would cost major clubs the services of certain players now and again (and let's not go wild here; the sum total of, say, Nacewa's absence under this rule would be one World Cup every four years, along with the occasional tour) but if the IRB are serious about developing lower-tier nations, they have to protect those nations against having their best players unavailable.

anonymous_joe

tolosenc wrote: »

Hadn't heard that. It's a shame.

It's not really. The situation there's a disgrace.

Gracelessly Tom

anonymous_joe wrote: »

It's not really. The situation there's a disgrace.

I think what Tolosenc meant was it's a shame they won't have a full team, not it's a shame NZ won't let the Fijian military personnel into the country.

KingEnda

Leroy Lita wrote: »

After such a good season with Leinster, surely Fiji will pick Isa Nacewa in their squad for the world cup? Isa would have surely been good enough to be an All Black
why has he only played once for Fiji?

Whats does he need to do to play for Ireland? Is it possible for the future?

Staplor

KingEnda wrote: »

Whats does he need to do to play for Ireland? Is it possible for the future?

Did you even read the thread?

almighty1

KingEnda wrote: »

Whats does he need to do to play for Ireland? Is it possible for the future?

He isnt and can never be qualified. He has already played for Fiji.

skregs

KingEnda wrote: »

Whats does he need to do to play for Ireland?

A DeLorean and 1.21 jiggawatts

PhatPiggins

skregs wrote: »

A DeLorean and 1.21 jiggawatts

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Classic

PhatPiggins

desertcircus wrote: »

Perhaps I phrased it badly: it would be worth considering a rule whereby an internationally capped player who's been called up by his country can freely choose whether or not to play, but would not be allowed to play for his club while his country is playing.

Nacewa's the obvious counterpoint, but his situation doesn't take away from the fact that the island nations in particular have real difficulty getting all their players for World Cups, thanks in no small part to clubs pressuring them. Remove the incentive for the clubs to lean on their players and you create a more level playing field. The situation of the island nations (and Argentina to a lesser extent) has to be changed, and one of the things that has to change is the relative disadvantage when it comes to calling up players.

QUOTE]

So if he doesn't want to play for his country then he can't play for his club during the internationals? Don't think thats very realistic.

tolosenc

Yeah. And what about players who call time on their international careers? If the likes of BOD and POC said after this RWC that they would no longer play for Ireland, they'd then be inelligible to play for Munster/Leinster during the 6N, despite haveing amassed the guts of 200 caps between them?

twinytwo

tolosenc wrote: »

Fiji will pick him. And then he'll say no. He doesn't want to play for Fiji. End of.

but he cant play for anyone else now... and its a wc. I mean if he dosent want to play international thats fine but you would be hard pushed to find a player who wouldnt want to play international rugby given the chance.

Staplor

twinytwo wrote: »

but he cant play for anyone else now... and its a wc. I mean if he dosent want to play international thats fine but you would be hard pushed to find a player who wouldnt want to play international rugby given the chance.

Given the situation would you play for Fiji. I wouldn't.

WeeBushy

twinytwo wrote: »

but he cant play for anyone else now... and its a wc. I mean if he dosent want to play international thats fine but you would be hard pushed to find a player who wouldnt want to play international rugby given the chance.

I'm sure he'd love to play international rugby, but considering how it happened that he is only eligible for Fiji he has no interest in playing for them, which is his only option. Were I in his position I would make the same decision. It's a shame such a great player won't be seen on the biggest stage but as a Leinster fan I'm quite happy he wont be

JustinDee

By the way, he wasn't tricked. Was young, miles from anything like playing for NZ and took a tilt at intl rugby by playing for another country he qualified for.
'Saan er livet' (thats life)

desertcircus

Retirement is a different kettle of fish. This isn't some insane pie-in-the-sky idea, it's how the world's most popular sport works. If countries are losing their players to their clubs, then rebalancing is needed. What makes it a perfectly simple and usable system for the two hundred countries who play football but excessively complicated for the two dozen playing professional rugby?

desertcircus

I should clarify: what I'm proposing is actually a milder version of what happens in football. As far as I know a national FA can demand the release of a player with no prospect of the club being able to keep them. They don't tend to call people who don't want to play, because they're not much use. They use it to force the hand of clubs that don't want to release players.

tolosenc

desertcircus wrote: »

Retirement is a different kettle of fish. This isn't some insane pie-in-the-sky idea, it's how the world's most popular sport works. If countries are losing their players to their clubs, then rebalancing is needed. What makes it a perfectly simple and usable system for the two hundred countries who play football but excessively complicated for the two dozen playing professional rugby?

Yeah, but in football, how often do you hear of players missing international ties due to dubious injuries? And it's only for competitive matches, of which there are generally only 5 a year.

Playing internationally is an honour. If you don't want it, you shouldn't be obliged to play. If you don't respect it (i.e. choosing to stay at you club), then maybe you don't deserve it.

twinytwo wrote: »

but he cant play for anyone else now... and its a wc. I mean if he dosent want to play international thats fine but you would be hard pushed to find a player who wouldnt want to play international rugby given the chance.

I'm sure he'd love to play in the world cup, or just international rugby. He just doesn't want to play for Fiji as a result of the history. Fiji betrayed him. I'm sure he'd jump if the All Blacks (hopefully he'd love to represent us too) called him up.

PhatPiggins

desertcircus wrote: »

Retirement is a different kettle of fish. This isn't some insane pie-in-the-sky idea, it's how the world's most popular sport works. If countries are losing their players to their clubs, then rebalancing is needed. What makes it a perfectly simple and usable system for the two hundred countries who play football but excessively complicated for the two dozen playing professional rugby?

I really really don't want to talk about pikeyball but how many on the lower tier countries get an unusual amount of players withdrawing with alleged injuries

It works fine for England, Brazil et al not so well for Wales,Ireland, all of the South African countries,etc.

desertcircus

Players who genuinely don't want to play for their countries won't get called up, for the very simple reason that they're worse than useless to the team. Players who want to play but are currently being prevented by their clubs will get called up.

Maybe clubs will try and claim the player is injured. Fine. Then they can't play for their club while their country is playing. If your country calls you up and you refuse to go, then you don't play rugby for anyone during that time.

There's a certain bias in place here, I suspect because of Isa Nacewa's situation. But not all players are in the same boat as Isa, and at any rate, his avowed lack of interest and attempt to have his Fijian cap annulled mean the Fijian union would probably not try to force him to go. There are other players who should have been playing at World Cups but didn't. Trevor Leota was interviewed as the Samoan squad's representative before the 2003 World Cup before suddenly pulling out along with Henry Tuilagi due to club commitments. Caucaunibuca has ruled himself out of Fiji's touring party this year. The island nations in particular tend to end up in a situation where their strongest players frequently aren't at the big tournaments with them because their clubs are leaning on them. Much as I'd hate to see Leinster deprived of Isa for a month of next season, it's a price we should be willing to play to ensure that Fiji, Samoa and Tonga have a fighting chance of performing at their best at the World Cup.

The IRB's responsibility isn't the welfare of the Magners League or even the situations of individual players; it's the health of the international game. Allowing tier two nations to be artificially weakened is a dereliction of duty.

hardCopy

Should we just suspend top tier club rugby during designated international windows? Then all players would be free to play for their country