A question for the single ladies

g'em · 02-06-2011 08:37AM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I've come to realise that too. Actually in thinking otherwise it's doing a great disservice to men. At the end of the day the capacity that a man has to be in a fulfilling relationship comes less down to him having kids and more down to how secure and capable he is within himself.

GaylaBells02 · 02-06-2011 08:42AM

just enjoying what i have right now,kids and responsible husband

metrovelvet · 02-06-2011 09:58AM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Exactly. That is why I am having difficulty understanding the whole 'coming first' thing.

You are responsible for a child in a way that you are never going to be responsible for another adult. By jostling for the first position, are you actually saying you want someone to be responsible for you? Or you just dont want to share, but you dont mind sharing if it is for a child that is yours too?

In life,sometimes people get reshuffled to the back burner, maybe a family member is very sick, maybe its a demanding time in your job, maybe all sorts of other reasons, but its not a competition. Its just how life is sometimes.

Honestly, with or without a child, I would get very nervous about someone who wanted to be the center of my universe. I could never ever fulfill that need. There is just not enough of me to do that.

Re: The dream of having your first baby together [not directed at you permabear but the thread in genera], firsts are not all they are cracked up to be, think of starter marriages, or the person who has a child alone, whether it man or woman, there was no dream abounding there, probably a sad story founded in loss. Maybe that is not ideal either, maybe you want a clean slate, and sure that is your preogative to demand that, but from what I have gathered, dreaming is a dangerous activity.

LeeHoffmann · 02-06-2011 10:08AM

while my daughter will always be a huge part of my life, there is more than enough space left for other relationships, too, without any need for jostling over the #1 spot. In a sense, there is no #1 spot, despite how large it often looms in people's aspirations and anxieties.

it's doing a great disservice to men. At the end of the day the capacity that a man has to be in a fulfilling relationship comes less down to him having kids and more down to how secure and capable he is within himself.

I think you're misunderstanding the point about no. 1 spots! I don't think all the women who talked about being/not being no 1/equal in the man's life are divas who need to be the central focus at all times. Neither are they saying that a man can only prioritise one person, therefore there will be competition. I think what they're getting at is that there will be conflicts and it will take a significant amount of time for the children and new partner to think of this new grouping as a unit (or that might never happen). If you were the man in this situation, you would be thrown into situations where you would have to choose between what's best for your new missus and what's best for your kids. Inevitably this is going to happen. The Dad will likely see this new grouping as his family, but the kids and new partner won't. That's the problem. If the Dad doesn't see this or ignores it, everyone else will lose out. There will likely be a tug of war for the Dad's time, attention and affection, particularly at the beginning of the relationship. It's not his ability to have a fulfilling relationship I'd be worried about, but his ability to accept and balance the needs and demands of the important people in his life, particularly if those people feel like they are in conflict with one another. To insist that there are no priority issues here is naive in the extreme.

By jostling for the first position, are you actually saying you want someone to be responsible for you?

beyond ridiculous

from what I have gathered, dreaming is a dangerous activity.

tell that to Martin Luther King :P (joke!)

metrovelvet · 02-06-2011 10:14AM

LeeHoffmann wrote: »

I think you're misunderstanding the point about no. 1 spots! I don't think all the women who talked about being/not being no 1/equal in the man's life are divas who need to be the central focus at all times. Neither are they saying that a man can only prioritise one person, therefore there will be competition. I think what they're getting at is that there will be conflicts and it will take a significant amount of time for the children and new partner to think of this new grouping as a unit (or that might never happen). If you were the man in this situation, you would be thrown into situations where you would have to choose between what's best for your new missus and what's best for your kids. Inevitably this is going to happen. The Dad will likely see this new grouping as his family, but the kids and new partner won't. That's the problem. If the Dad doesn't see this or ignores it, everyone else will lose out. There will likely be a tug of war for the Dad's time, attention and affection, particularly at the beginning of the relationship. It's not his ability to have a fulfilling relationship I'd be worried about, but his ability to accept and balance the needs and demands of the important people in his life, particularly if those people feel like they are in conflict with one another. To insist that there are no priority issues here is naive in the extreme.

I think its different for non custodials. Non custodials generally have the every other weekend with the kids. The rest of the week and every other weekend he can do what he wants with.

The other thing too is with parents who are totally parenting alone, like myself, there are very little loyalty issues to contend with. Whereas if you are taking on kids and you are the new member of the family, the new step mom, that can be hard too. It all depends on how the father manages it.

I know of a couple of men who sacrificed entire relationships with their kids for the comfort of their girlfriends. What that says to me is the relationshipwith their kids were not that important to them to begin with.

LeeHoffmann · 02-06-2011 10:19AM

that's true. I was thinking of it from the point of view of equal parenting or where the Dad has full custody, not the 'every other weekend' Dad. I guess it could be easier in the latter case. What I've seen more is relationships damaged through unintended neglect for the sake of comfort and wishful thinking. Undoubtedly having a relationship with somebody who has kids when you don't is more complicated than just having a relationship with somebody where neither of you have kids.

willow tree · 02-06-2011 10:37AM

for me baggage doesnt matter, its how they deal with or have dealt with the baggage..
as for no 1 spot, that is for my daughter, whether im with my partner i had her with or a new person.. but i have love and space for my partner (but no.1 spot is taken;))

Emme · 02-06-2011 10:55AM

GaylaBells02 wrote: »

just enjoying what i have right now,kids and responsible husband

This thread was a question for single ladies. Seeing as you're so happy right now I hope this topic will never be relevant to you, either in the context of having an ex-husband and father of your children dating other women, or dating a man with children who might find it difficult to accept you.

Maple · 02-06-2011 11:31AM

Emme wrote: »

This thread was a question for single ladies. Seeing as you're so happy right now I hope this topic will never be relevant to you, either in the context of having an ex-husband and father of your children dating other women, or dating a man with children who might find it difficult to accept you.

Watch your tone. There are men posting in this thread too, however I notice you have not singled them out.

Going forward, be polite. It's a public forum, you will not always get the select audience that you want.

Maple

Emme · 02-06-2011 12:27PM

Maple wrote: »

Watch your tone. There are men posting in this thread too, however I notice you have not singled them out.

Going forward, be polite. It's a public forum, you will not always get the select audience that you want.

Maple

Some of the men posting on this thread were doing so from the point of view of a single father which is quite helpful as this post is about dating men with children.

On this thread the statement "just enjoying what i have right now,kids and responsible husband" is tantamount to eating a steak in front of a starving man.

OK, if this poster has kids and a responsible husband she's lucky, and if she's enjoying it she's even luckier still. Even so there's no need for her to gloat over those who aren't in that situation (single women, childless women, single mothers and single fathers) and this is what she appears to be doing with that statement.

Maple · 02-06-2011 12:45PM

No, that's yourtake on her post. I can see that her post might not have been hugely relevant but her use of the words "right now" also lead me to believe that she is grateful for what she has.

There was absolutely nothing gloating about her post, you just chose to believe there was.

Maple

username123 · 02-06-2011 01:55PM

Emme wrote: »

On this thread the statement "just enjoying what i have right now,kids and responsible husband" is tantamount to eating a steak in front of a starving man.

Why? Many posters here have said they dont want children at all.

Some women are happy to be single and not looking for a husband and kids!!

Im married now, but before I met my husband I loved being single and in fact when I met him I was totally torn as to whether or not to start up a relationship because it meant giving up my single life. If he had had kids I probably wouldnt have gotten into the relationship. If I had had kids he probably wouldnt have gotten into the relationship. Some people are not into having kids or being around other peoples kids.

Emme · 02-06-2011 02:29PM

username123 wrote: »

Why? Many posters here have said they dont want children at all.

Some women are happy to be single and not looking for a husband and kids!!

Im married now, but before I met my husband I loved being single and in fact when I met him I was totally torn as to whether or not to start up a relationship because it meant giving up my single life. If he had had kids I probably wouldnt have gotten into the relationship. If I had had kids he probably wouldnt have gotten into the relationship. Some people are not into having kids or being around other peoples kids.

Each to their own, but there are many single women, myself included, who would like to meet somebody but find it very difficult. The single life has its benefits and mostly I make the best of it, but I think most of us who are happy being single and not looking wouldn't turn down somebody nice if they came along. There are times when being single can get depressing, especially if you've been single a long time,DO NOT LINK THREADS FROM OTHER FORUMS
Most single women are looking for somebody responsible among other things and a man who takes good care of his children is being responsible whether he just sees them at weekends or they live with him.

I think anyone who has children in their life even if they're not their own (say nieces and nephews) would have some understanding of the needs and demands of children. People who don't want to be around the children in their lives might prefer a man who has no children himself and that's their choice.

Maple · 02-06-2011 02:48PM

Emme, please do not link threads from other forums in particular PI/RI.

Maple

Emme · 02-06-2011 02:59PM

I'm really in the bold corner today, aren't I?

Maple · 02-06-2011 03:07PM

Emme wrote: »

I'm really in the bold corner today, aren't I?

Nah, that's just a standard Boards thing.

Malari · 02-06-2011 03:14PM

Emme wrote: »

I'm really in the bold corner today, aren't I?

It's only the bold corner, not the naughty step

I'll be controversial here, but I would definitely be more inclined to go for a man with kids if he did NOT have a relationship with them, rather than if he did. Because then I wouldn't have to have a relationship with the children either.

username123 · 02-06-2011 03:51PM

Emme wrote: »

Each to their own, but there are many single women, myself included, who would like to meet somebody but find it very difficult. The single life has its benefits and mostly I make the best of it, but I think most of us who are happy being single and not looking wouldn't turn down somebody nice if they came along. There are times when being single can get depressing, especially if you've been single a long time

I dont disagree at all - what youve said above is quite a way away from the earlier 'eating a steak in front of a starving man'!!

Being married can be depressing as well, if youre not getting along or there are other pressures like health or money - its not all a bed of roses.

I think all situations have their pro's and con's (and pressures and bed of roses times), but for a woman who isnt that interested in children, I cant see why she would bother dating a guy who did - unless the kids were grown up. It wouldnt be the relationship that a man had with his children that would bother me, or the notion of coming first, or being his top priority etc... For me it would quite simply be - Im not interested in kids.

I dunno if I agree with you Malari - if he DIDNT have a relationship with his kids that in itself would be a worry - why not? Is this someone who can just turn his back on important people in his life? Is this someone who doesnt take his responsibilities seriously? I agree Id be happy not to have to have a relationship with them either - but the reasons why would be a big worry!

Malari · 02-06-2011 04:08PM

username123 wrote: »

I dunno if I agree with you Malari - if he DIDNT have a relationship with his kids that in itself would be a worry - why not? Is this someone who can just turn his back on important people in his life? Is this someone who doesnt take his responsibilities seriously? I agree Id be happy not to have to have a relationship with them either - but the reasons why would be a big worry!

That's why it's controversial I suppose! As I see it, I would be with a man who doesn't want kids (as I don't) so if he ever had children it would not be through lack of responsibility - that contraception was used. The fact that the woman who got pregnant decided to have the kid I guess I would see it as her responsibility then. It would depend on the circumstances.

starlit · 02-06-2011 04:17PM

Mawbish wrote: »

Hey y'all,

I'm sorry if this question has been posed before but here goes...

After discussing matters of love and boyfriends with a friend the other day we came to the realisation that we've given up on the 'Cinderella' fairy tale and we accept that men have faults just like we do but an interesting thing came up - we've noticed that as we're now in our 30's that the majority if not all of the men we meet these days have at least one or two children with previous partners and while it would not be an issue in itself the romantic idea of meeting Mr Right settling down and then having a child together as an adventure that we experience for the first time ever together.

I'm not a die hard romantic - far too practical for that! LOL

But my friends have more or less decided that they're going to discount men who have children from previous relationships in the hope that they can have that 'adventure' together.

Does anyone else feel this way or have had friends say something similar?

Coming from a single girl myself, Fairytale cinderella romances don't exist...its just a fantasy, not real it can be if you want it to be but its not idealistic or realistic. No such thing as happily ever after, you have to work at a relationship once the honeymoon period is over to be honest. You might have it for one day when you get hitched but think there is more to life than fairytale ambitions.

I have very much given up on that notion a while back, might have become a bit cynical too but not in a harsh way. I see where you are are coming from OP, would like that too but Mr right might not be mr right or not mr right now or mr perfect its just an ideal. The nearest to mr right is the one who is right for you who might not be right for someone else whether he has the whole package or not whether you want to settle down with him whatever the matter is, someone you connect with and who you could visualise as your soul-mate nothing else should matter, it should be more important than trying to just settle with just anyone or settle for less just for the sake of being with someone.

Its hard to find people who haven't already had children or haven't been in relationships before once you hit your 30's its inevitable that your future partner may or may not have a child. If its emotional baggage you want free off just steer clear of men who have that there might be a lot of red tape going with them but then again if you love someone and fall in love with them whether they have a child or not or have had a previous marriage or not etc should it matter, you can't help or control who you fall for

Not sure, I have one friend she wouldn't be bothered either way if the guy had a kid or not from previous relationships, I be sceptical myself as I would like that first time adventure with someone but as I said its difficult to predict who you fall for! For me its more about age, I wouldn't go out with a guy who was too old for me as I have grown up with people where there was a major age gap and I found that hard to be honest and always got on better with people nearer to my age or younger that's why I rather go for a fella who is nearer my age and younger than myself, I sometimes feel younger than I really am. I have a thing for younger guys though, not discounting fellas who are older than me but I wouldn't go out with a guy 10 years plus to put it mildly!

I wouldn't let what your friends say put you off when meeting men. Widen the net a bit, maybe if you feel the same way as them maybe try something else rather than focus on the fact the guy has a kid. If it bothers you don't go out with a guy that has a kid if its too much trouble but then again you could be missing out you can still have a kid with him in the future if the relationship led to that. Depends what you want and what the guy wants. If discounting men with kids is the best option widen your net a bit and focus on other areas that might attract you to men.

Good luck with your search OP...I'm still looking but have stopped looking so to speak...letting fate decide for the while!
All the best.

Novella · 02-06-2011 04:59PM

metrovelvet wrote: »

Everybody wants this. Some people get it and some don't. Some people get it for a little while, only to find their kids have step siblings and half siblings and step parents later on. Some people wait for the whole package and get nothing and die having zero of what they wanted.

Thats the thing about the happy ending, it isnt the ending, its just the beginning.... but they dont show you that part.

Okay, maybe that is what everyone wants but what I am saying is that I would not be happy with less. I'm not gonna be a step-parent, full stop. My own up-bringing wasn't perfect. I always wanted to be able to go home from school to a house with two parents in it, my two parents and when (or if) I have a child (or children), it is vitally important to me that I give him/her (or them) the things I never had but wanted and needed so badly.

I will wait for the whole package. I'd be a lot happier dying alone having waited. It means that much to me. That's all I'm saying.

I understand that I can't know I won't end up divorced etc., but if I ever have a child I want to do so with every intention of being with the father forever. Just me, him, our children. You don't just get happy endings, you make them.

metrovelvet wrote: »

Re: The dream of having your first baby together [not directed at you permabear but the thread in genera], firsts are not all they are cracked up to be, think of starter marriages, or the person who has a child alone, whether it man or woman, there was no dream abounding there, probably a sad story founded in loss. Maybe that is not ideal either, maybe you want a clean slate, and sure that is your preogative to demand that, but from what I have gathered, dreaming is a dangerous activity.

I think there are probably a million different reasons why a woman wouldn't wanna date or marry a man who already had a child. There are as many reasons as there are people with preferences. I don't think they need to be justified either. People are allowed to want. Dreaming isn't dangerous. What's dangerous, I think, is not dreaming. If you don't have a dream, what else do you have?

elbee · 02-06-2011 05:29PM

I'd like to weigh in on the coming-first thing. It was my first thought when I read the question, but everyone's comments really made me think about what it meant to me and this is what I came up with:

Firstly, if I was dating a man with children, I'd want him to put them first. Of course. They're children, they have needs that I don't have. If he didn't, I wouldn't want to be with him.

That means that in the event of a direct clash between my needs and theirs, I feel he should choose them. Fine in theory.

In reality, that would mean that if something was incredibly important to me and it happened to clash with something incredibly important to the child/children, I'm the one who gets sidelined. Fair enough, I'm a grown-up, I can take it. But it means that if I say 'It is very important to me that you do this and it means a great deal to me,' and he says 'Of course', what he means is 'of course, if the children don't need me at the same time.'

Which is grand if we're talking about a dinner party versus a school play. Not so great if we're talking about a family funeral on my side versus his kids' graduation. How the hell do you decide which is more important then?

Essentially, I don't like the idea of being in a relationship with someone who genuinely can't give his word that he will be there at the important times in my life, even if he wants to. If his kids don't like me, do I spend Christmases alone forever (I have a very small scattered family myself)? If I have a hospital test I'm very scared about and his kid has a dental appointment they're very scared about, who gets to have him there?

And yes, I could cope with major life events on my own and I don't need someone holding my hand. There are times though when it's nice to have someone you love there. And I feel that resentment is likely to build up if your significant other keeps missing things that mean a lot to you, even if he has the best possible reason.

I know not every man with kids will be asked to drop everything for them on a regular basis, but the fact is when faced with a direct choice, he should choose his children, and much as I agree with that, I feel long-term it could eat away at me.

Obviously a lot depends on the guy and the circumstances and the children and the children's mother, and lots of other things. My gut feeling would be to avoid it though, unless the guy and his family were particularly good at handling the situation.

metrovelvet · 02-06-2011 09:17PM

Malari wrote: »

That's why it's controversial I suppose! As I see it, I would be with a man who doesn't want kids (as I don't) so if he ever had children it would not be through lack of responsibility - that contraception was used. The fact that the woman who got pregnant decided to have the kid I guess I would see it as her responsibility then. It would depend on the circumstances.

I would not trust a man who did this for many reasons, but I will only illustrate one.

What can happen, is that they change their minds up the road, and then suddenly you thought you were with a man who didnt have kids and then alla ka bam, you are with a man with a child. Its not a reliable declaration is what Im saying.

I would also not assume contraception was used. I would also not assume he didnt talk the woman into having a child himself and then change his mind.

At the risk of repeating myself, how you treat your offspring, imo is one of the basic litmus tests for what kind of human being you are. Maybe other people have other tests, but that would definitely be one of mine.

Malari · 02-06-2011 09:41PM

metrovelvet wrote: »

I would not trust a man who did this for many reasons, but I will only illustrate one.

What can happen, is that they change their minds up the road, and then suddenly you thought you were with a man who didnt have kids and then alla ka bam, you are with a man with a child. Its not a reliable declaration is what Im saying.

I would also not assume contraception was used. I would also not assume he didnt talk the woman into having a child himself and then change his mind.

At the risk of repeating myself, how you treat your offspring, imo is one of the basic litmus tests for what kind of human being you are. Maybe other people have other tests, but that would definitely be one of mine.

Sure, I was making a few assumptions. But I guess I based them on how I would select men when I was single. And if a child turned up in my current relationship , alla ka bam, as you put it, then I would be out of there, piff paff poof.

I'm sure a lot of people would use that to make a judgement about me, but as long as you meet someone who shares the same views - whether it's staring a family together for the first time, or saying a definite no to having kids in your life - most people want to find that 'one'.

Eve_Dublin · 04-06-2011 09:02AM

I have read most of what was posted here but just sticking my own opinion in here. I'd definitely consider dating a man with chidlren only because I've seen first hand with my own dad how it can work out. My mother passed away when I was 10 and my dad remarried again when I was 14 to the most wonderful woman in the world and they've been married since (I'm 31 now) and they're extremely happy. She was 37 at the time (I can't believe how young she was in hindsight...I didn't realise at the time) and my dad was 52 when they met and he had.....wait for it...5 children! Ranging from 11 (me) to my oldest brother who was 23 at that time. She took on a serious handful but she was crazy about my dad (still is..) and it hasn't been easy for her as we were a handful over the years, particularly my oldest brother (whose her favourite now). I don't think she has any regrets and she's told me she was freaking out at the time but that she simply fell in love with my dad (he's pretty special) and was willing to sacrifice anything to spend the rest of her life with him.

If I'm in a position to meet a man again and he has children and I believe he's worth the effort and I'm in love, then of course I'd consider it. A good man is a good man.

Giselle · 04-06-2011 10:34AM

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I have read most of what was posted here but just sticking my own opinion in here. I'd definitely consider dating a man with chidlren only because I've seen first hand with my own dad how it can work out. My mother passed away when I was 10 and my dad remarried again when I was 14 to the most wonderful woman in the world and they've been married since (I'm 31 now) and they're extremely happy. She was 37 at the time (I can't believe how young she was in hindsight...I didn't realise at the time) and my dad was 52 when they met and he had.....wait for it...5 children! Ranging from 11 (me) to my oldest brother who was 23 at that time. She took on a serious handful but she was crazy about my dad (still is..) and it hasn't been easy for her as we were a handful over the years, particularly my oldest brother (whose her favourite now). I don't think she has any regrets and she's told me she was freaking out at the time but that she simply fell in love with my dad (he's pretty special) and was willing to sacrifice anything to spend the rest of her life with him.

If I'm in a position to meet a man again and he has children and I believe he's worth the effort and I'm in love, then of course I'd consider it. A good man is a good man.

Your dad must be pretty special alright, but your stepmum sure is some woman.:)

Just goes to show that happily ever afters don't all follow the same template.

Eve_Dublin · 04-06-2011 10:37AM

Giselle wrote: »

Your dad must be pretty special alright, but your stepmum sure is some woman.:)

Just goes to show that happily ever afters don't all follow the same template.

Ah my dad's great but I'm biased as he's my dad but yeah, my step-mother is unbelievable. I will be honest though, perhaps this situation differs as my mam wasn't around. I don't know which would be harder to deal with: the mother still around and involved in the chidlren's life or the memory of the mother that the man still loves and misses. You'd need to be a very strong person to deal with either situation.

I am a friend · 04-06-2011 10:42AM

My OH has kids from a previous relationship and we are expecting my first. I am what is known as a geriatric mum :rolleyes: and if all goes well with this baby (fingers crossed), I wont be trying again as my age would be a barrier.

I recently lost my only sibling and now realise even more the value of siblings and for this reason I am delighted that baby will have a brother and sister already...

While there is a cost i.e. time, holidays and financial, I am so thrilled that my little baby will have a family to go to when I / we are older and wont be on his / her own when we are gone....

An alternate view...

metrovelvet · 04-06-2011 10:54AM

I am a friend wrote: »

My OH has kids from a previous relationship and we are expecting my first. I am what is known as a geriatric mum :rolleyes: and if all goes well with this baby (fingers crossed), I wont be trying again as my age would be a barrier.

I recently lost my only sibling and now realise even more the value of siblings and for this reason I am delighted that baby will have a brother and sister already...

While there is a cost i.e. time, holidays and financial, I am so thrilled that my little baby will have a family to go to when I / we are older and wont be on his / her own when we are gone....

An alternate view...

That's lovely I AM A FRIEND. So nice for all the kids, to have each other. It doesnt have to be a war all the time. Great post.

mariebeth · 04-06-2011 12:28PM

Knowing that a man had children would make me think hard about getting in to a relationship with him. I know my parents wouldn't be that approving as they are very old fashioned, so while I wouldn't not go out with him just because of that, it would make me want to make sure that the relationship would have serious potential and that the man was a good enough person if I was going to be potentially causing trouble between me & the parents.

Other than that, I want my own children in the future, so if it was a case of he has his children and doesn't want any more, then I couldn't go out with him, because for me, having my own child someday is non-negotiable.

A question for the single ladies

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