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Garda with criminal record

24

Comments

  • #32
    shaneybaby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭shaneybaby


    The_Snapper wrote: »
    One punch or twenty, it is still an assault. I'm also basing it on his (previous) occupation as well as the injuries sustained as stated, each case merits it's own.

    Absolutely it's still assault. even if it was more punches it's the point that the victims injuries rather than the actions of the defendant that seem to guide people as to the appropriate sentence.


  • #33
    BaronVon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭BaronVon


    The_Snapper wrote: »
    I don't think it was severe enough either. Because of his position and the ferocity of the assault I feel a minimum of 3yrs would be appropriate, none of it suspended.

    A police sergeant in London befriended my Great aunt some years ago, she confided in him as to where some of her savings were hidden in the house. Soon after the money went missing (£8,000). As she never has people call we suspected him of the theft and informed a police station away from where he was stationed.

    The money was recovered in his house in the attic within a week. All the money was eventually paid back to her and he pleaded guilty to theft.

    Immediately after his conviction and sentence he was taken into custody, discharged from the Metropolitan Police and taken to prison with no leave to appeal. He got 18 months for his dishonesty.

    In Snapper's case, the policeman used his position to steal money. The case in Cork is completely different, he was off-duty, on the lash, and reacted to someone provoking him.

    He got the full sentence suspended today.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0527/foleyd.html

    Judges normally don't want defendants to lose their jobs. In this case the defendant is guaranteed to lose his job. It is unlikely he will re-offend, is not classed as a danger to society, and the injured party did not want him to go to jail.

    I would think a suspended sentence is fair in this case.


  • #34
    shaneybaby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭shaneybaby


    From rte.ie

    "A garda, sentenced for assault yesterday, walked free today after a Circuit Court Judge in Cork revised his 18-month prison sentence.
    Yesterday, Garda Dean Foley, who is from Blarney, was given an 18-month sentence with 12 months suspended, after he pleaded guilty to the serious assault of a man in Cork city while he was off duty.
    However, Judge Sean Ó Donnabháin allowed the case to be re-entered for hearing today, after he accepted that it was both appropriate and lawful to hear the unusual application in the current session.
    Today, Mr Foley's Defence Counsel Donal O'Sullivan told the court that he had failed to mention yesterday a principal in law which accepted that some mitigation in sentencing is granted to former guards and prison officers because they were likely to suffer more in prison.
    He told the court that prison officers have said that his client, who is likely to lose his job, will be taken to the Midlands Prison where he will be isolated from other prisoners in a specific wing, kept under close supervision and restricted in his movements.
    Judge Sean Ó Donnabháin said that it is likely that if this had been argued yesterday he would have adjourned the case, with the accused remanded in custody and sentenced today.
    Judge Ó Donnabháin said that 'we are in a completely different place today to where we were yesterday and if a point had to be made then perhaps it has been made'.
    After considering the argument raised by the garda's counsel, that he might not be able to advance this argument in the event of an appeal (in the court of Criminal Appeal), Judge Ó Donnabháin said he was concerned that an unfairness might result, and so he affirmed the 18-month prison sentence, but suspended it. "

    Must say i've never heard of the point in bold above....


  • #35
    coylemj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,802 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Almost sounds like a form of diplomatic immunity - I'm a Garda so I can't be sent to prison.

    This really takes the biscuit, where is the principle of equality before the law?

    In my opinion the judge had no jurisdiction to vary the sentence today, he was effectively hearing an appeal against his own sentence which is ultra vires.


  • #36
    The_Snapper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 93 ✭✭The_Snapper


    infacteh wrote: »
    In Snapper's case, the policeman used his position to steal money. The case in Cork is completely different, he was off-duty, on the lash, and reacted to someone provoking him.

    I should have been a bit clearer there, the police sergeant got 18 months for theft, the garda got 18 months (now suspended) for a serious assault.

    It was more a comparison for law enforcers and offences they commit, albeit neighboring countries.
    coylemj wrote: »
    Almost sounds like a form of diplomatic immunity - I'm a Garda so I can't be sent to prison.

    I agree. That's not right. That sentence only generates mistrust and closing of ranks etc, in my opinion. Like a two tier rule.


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  • #37
    shaneybaby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭shaneybaby


    coylemj wrote: »
    Almost sounds like a form of diplomatic immunity - I'm a Garda so I can't be sent to prison.

    This really takes the biscuit, where is the principle of equality before the law?

    In my opinion the judge had no jurisdiction to vary the sentence today, he was effectively hearing an appeal against his own sentence which is ultra vires.
    Totally agree with the first part. Serious can of worms being opened.

    However although i've only heard of it in civil cases (cork city's liquidation order two years ago) of orders being revisited i thought the same judge does have jurisdiction to review sentences. No back up to that mind you;)


  • #38
    maglite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭maglite


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0527/foleyd.html wrote:

    A garda, sentenced for assault yesterday, walked free today after a Circuit Court Judge in Cork revised his 18-month prison sentence.

    Yesterday, Garda Dean Foley, who is from Blarney, was given an 18-month sentence with 12 months suspended, after he pleaded guilty to the serious assault of a man in Cork city while he was off duty.

    However, Judge Sean Ó Donnabháin allowed the case to be re-entered for hearing today, after he accepted that it was both appropriate and lawful to hear the unusual application in the current session.

    Today, Mr Foley's Defence Counsel Donal O'Sullivan told the court that he had failed to mention yesterday a principal in law which accepted that some mitigation in sentencing is granted to former guards and prison officers because they were likely to suffer more in prison.

    Interesting.


  • #39
    Shield
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,867 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    Moved from Emergency Services to Legal Discussion with permanent redirect.


  • #40
    tmc86
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭tmc86


    Defence Counsel nearly dropped the ball on that one.

    Very controversial case though - Garda Foley admitted throwing a punch but from the injury report it would be hard to believe that one punch caused the described injuries.

    You wouldnt want to see him suffer in prison though, fair enough he should serve his punishment but no doubt he would be very much in danger if he went to prison.

    What was the revised sentence?


  • #41
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    tmc86 wrote: »
    Defence Counsel nearly dropped the ball on that one.

    Very controversial case though - Garda Foley admitted throwing a punch but from the injury report it would be hard to believe that one punch caused the described injuries.

    You wouldnt want to see him suffer in prison though, fair enough he should serve his punishment but no doubt he would be very much in danger if he went to prison.

    What was the revised sentence?

    Rapists and child molestors are also huge targets in the prison system, should they also no receive custodial sentences because "you wouldn't want to see him suffer in prison" and "no doubt he would be very much in danger if he went to prison"?? Or for anyone who grasses? Should their sentence be revoked??

    This shows up the Irish legal system as backwards!!


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  • #42
    tmc86
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭tmc86


    Rapists and child molestors are also huge targets in the prison system, should they also no receive custodial sentences because "you wouldn't want to see him suffer in prison" and "no doubt he would be very much in danger if he went to prison"?? Or for anyone who grasses? Should their sentence be revoked??

    At what point did I say that he should get off? I said that he should serve his punishment however you wouldnt want him to suffer and he would be in a lot of danger if he went to prison.

    The responsibilty from then on in lies with the prison staff to do their job and protect their prisoners no matter who they are or what they have done. Obviously due to overcrowding and related difficulties it may be slightly more difficult to provide this protection.

    So from this sentence, the courts are confirming that the relevant prison authorities cannot guarantee his protection and thus have used this excuse as a reason to suspend his sentence.

    The Irish legal system is backwards you are right about that.


  • #43
    jaybeeveedub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 275 ✭✭jaybeeveedub


    It would seem that the judge decided to rehear regarding sentencing as, because counsel "forgot" to mention at trial that the judge can consider the extra hardship (almost solitary confinement due to risk of getting a slap) faced by a member of AGS as mitigation during sentencing, he would not have been able to raise the issue on appeal to the CCA.

    I do agree though that there should be a corollary of S.3 Aggravated Murder for offences committed by Gardai.


  • #44
    234
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭234


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    This shows up the Irish legal system as backwards!!
    tmc86 wrote: »
    The Irish legal system is backwards you are right about that.

    This does not show the Irish legal system up as backwards. This principle forms a minute part of the entire legal system. If you could quantify it in percentage terms it would probably be less than 0.001% of the entire legal system. It does not even seem to be a major principle used in sentencing if the defence counsel forgot to mention it.

    While it is undoubtedly illogical and should be abolished it has little bearing on the legal system as a whole. This principle could be old and seldom-used.

    This may seem like a rant but people shouldn't use one flaw as evidence that the legla system as a whole is backwards.


  • #45
    Rookster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 331 ✭✭Rookster


    It could set a precedent in law. Surely child molesters and rapists can now argue that they will not be safe in prison so should be left go free.


  • #46
    BaronVon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭BaronVon


    Rookster wrote: »
    It could set a precedent in law. Surely child molesters and rapists can now argue that they will not be safe in prison so should be left go free.

    Law being what it is, I'm sure its been tried before!


  • #47
    autonomy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 115 ✭✭autonomy


    There are many healthcare courses in college that you have to get a garda vetting for because you will have access to children and vulnerable adults throughout the course, I don't see why this shouldn't apply to guards and if they have a criminal record they should not be allowed to be responsible in helping the public!


  • #48
    jaybeeveedub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 275 ✭✭jaybeeveedub


    Rookster wrote: »
    It could set a precedent in law. Surely child molesters and rapists can now argue that they will not be safe in prison so should be left go free.

    very few child molesters and rapists plead guilty though...


  • #49
    The_Snapper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 93 ✭✭The_Snapper


    Rookster wrote: »
    It could set a precedent in law. Surely child molesters and rapists can now argue that they will not be safe in prison so should be left go free.

    The UK has a "Rule 43", for nonces and vulnerable and the likes, is there something like that here?


  • #50
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Rookster wrote: »
    It could set a precedent in law. Surely child molesters and rapists can now argue that they will not be safe in prison so should be left go free.

    Yes because the work done by Gardaí and prison officers is the same as the noble work of the paedophile. :rolleyes:

    The former get beaten up because of the good they did, the latter because of the bad.


  • #51
    jakdelad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭jakdelad


    token101 wrote: »
    Saw a guy in the paper today, an off duty garda, convicted for assault. Will he be automatically sacked now from the Gardai? just curious!!!
    this case sends out the wrong message
    this man dident just get a box
    he was severly beaten bones broken teeth missing, a bleed on the brain
    its all a fuk dont pay your tv licence fine they haul you off to jail
    but a cop who goes on a rampage gets away with it
    theres lots of law very little justice
    this is a clear cut example of how the system works in favour of some


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  • #52
    jakdelad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭jakdelad


    jakdelad wrote: »
    this case sends out the wrong message
    this man dident just get a box
    he was severly beaten bones broken teeth missing, a bleed on the brain
    its all a fuk dont pay your tv licence fine they haul you off to jail
    but a cop who goes on a rampage gets away with it
    theres lots of law very little justice
    this is a clear cut example of how the system works in favour of some
    whats the betting he wont be sacked??
    a pure scumbag


  • #53
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    jakdelad wrote: »
    this case sends out the wrong message
    this man dident just get a box
    he was severly beaten bones broken teeth missing, a bleed on the brain
    its all a fuk dont pay your tv licence fine they haul you off to jail
    but a cop who goes on a rampage gets away with it
    theres lots of law very little justice
    this is a clear cut example of how the system works in favour of some

    A bull on laxatives couldn't produce this.

    You don't get hauled to jail for not paying your tv licence. The cop didn't got on a "rampage". This sentence was all about justice. The whole system of mitigation is based on the law working in favour of people.


  • #54
    Delancey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    jakdelad wrote: »
    whats the betting he wont be sacked??
    a pure scumbag

    I agree the attacker in this case acted like a thug.

    He will be dismissed for sure , 18 month sentence ( albeit suspended ) means he will be kicked out.
    Internal Garda disciplinary procedures can only kick in now that the criminal proceedings have ended.


  • #55
    UDAWINNER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 860 ✭✭✭UDAWINNER


    He'd better be fired, a thug like that should have been sent to prison.


  • #56
    jakdelad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭jakdelad


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    A bull on laxatives couldn't produce this.

    You don't get hauled to jail for not paying your tv licence. The cop didn't got on a "rampage". This sentence was all about justice. The whole system of mitigation is based on the law working in favour of people.
    wise up
    if your fined for not having a tv licence and you dont or cannot pay the fine you go to jail friend.........hello?
    oh yea the law really worked in favour for this thug
    a pure scumbag he nearly killed the guy
    or maybe we should give him the scot medal
    this bullsh1t about gards not being able to do time because they might treated differently in prison is pure bullsh1t
    it goes to show one
    the law is equal for everyone
    but everyone is not equal before the law
    whilst the gards overall do a good job
    theres often a rotten apple in the barrell and this guy is one
    and i hope for the good of the force he feels a size 12 boot up the arse and out the door


  • #57
    Contra Proferentem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭Contra Proferentem


    Seriously, how the hell could the Judge do this the day after having given sentenance? Every time I read one of these stories I keep feeling that the crap you learn in college is irrevelant, that the law is pretty much made up as it goes along.


  • #58
    Mr Jinx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Mr Jinx


    Contra Proferentem wrote: »
    Seriously, how the hell could the Judge do this the day after having given sentenance? Every time I read one of these stories I keep feeling that the crap you learn in college is irrevelant, that the law is pretty much made up as it goes along.

    Yes.......its called common law. The system of law that operates in this country.


  • #59
    Resend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭Resend


    the thug got off all suspended?


  • #60
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    A bull on laxatives couldn't produce this.

    You don't get hauled to jail for not paying your tv licence. The cop didn't got on a "rampage". This sentence was all about justice. The whole system of mitigation is based on the law working in favour of people.

    On the contrary according to the Dept of Justice (http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2011-05-24.1282.0)

    These figures relate solely to persons committed for non payment of television fines, dog licence fines or parking fines for the years 2007 to 2010.

    Year No TV Licence

    2007 : 21

    2008 : 48

    2009 : 75

    2010 : 152


    Not only do people get hauled to jail for not having a TV licence - people get hauled to jail for not having a dog licence.


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  • #61
    Resend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭Resend


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    On the contrary according to the Dept of Justice (http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2011-05-24.1282.0)

    These figures relate solely to persons committed for non payment of television fines, dog licence fines or parking fines for the years 2007 to 2010.

    Year No TV Licence

    2007 : 21

    2008 : 48

    2009 : 75

    2010 : 152


    Not only do people get hauled to jail for not having a TV licence - people get hauled to jail for not having a dog licence.
    and sent home the same day


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