Garda with criminal record

token101 · 12-05-2011 09:27PM #1

Saw a guy in the paper today, an off duty garda, convicted for assault. Will he be automatically sacked now from the Gardai? just curious!!!

johnnyskeleton · 12-05-2011 09:27PM

Depends who he hit I guess

token101 · 12-05-2011 09:31PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Depends who he hit I guess

Well he beat a guy in Cork city unconscious. Thug like.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-guilty-of-street-assault-2644546.html

Surely he'll be sacked? He couldnt be allowed to continue, could he?

Delancey · 12-05-2011 10:45PM

Impossible to see how he will keep his job , the reason he cannot be dismissed at this stage is that the criminal proceedings have not finished.
As far as I know a Garda sentenced to any period in prison is automatically dismissed , even if this Garda was not jailed he would then face a separate internal disciplinary hearing.
This guy will get the boot.

Fred Cohen · 12-05-2011 11:09PM

Sad to think that someone's career is ruined for a moment of madness on a night out and others can ruin a nation and be allowed to resign with a massive severance package.

I feel sorry for the guy on a personal level but understand the need for the Guard's to be seen as pure as Caesar's Wife

Carawaystick · 12-05-2011 11:20PM

What about judges who are convicts?

Among all the hoo haa with Brian Curtin, no one said he should be sacked for drinking and driving, so what does a judge have to do to get the sack? is it similar to the cop?

Delancey · 13-05-2011 12:11AM

Very difficult to remove a judge , in order to preserve the impartiality and independence of the judiciary the system was set up that way.
IIRC from the Curtin case it requires an act of the Oireachtas to impeach or ' sack ' a judge.

qz · 13-05-2011 12:14AM

Bunreacht na hÉireann:

Article 35

4. 1° A judge of the Supreme Court or the High Court shall not be removed from office except for stated misbehaviour or incapacity, and then only upon resolutions passed by Dáil Éireann and by Seanad Éireann calling for his removal.

2° The Taoiseach shall duly notify the President of any such resolutions passed by Dáil Éireann and by Seanad Éireann, and shall send him a copy of every such resolution certified by the Chairman of the House of the Oireachtas by which it shall have been passed.

3° Upon receipt of such notification and of copies of such resolutions, the President shall forthwith, by an order under his hand and Seal, remove from office the judge to whom they relate.

Quite a few hurdles there alright. Also calls into play exactly what "misbehaviour" and to a lesser extent "capacity" entails.

thebullkf · 13-05-2011 12:40AM

Fred Cohen wrote: »

Sad to think that someone's career is ruined for a moment of madness on a night out and others can ruin a nation and be allowed to resign with a massive severance package.

I feel sorry for the guy on a personal level but understand the need for the Guard's to be seen as pure as Caesar's Wife

Two brothers,two pricks, Fcuk them. deserve the sack.

Wasn't just a few slaps--- serious injuries, and the cheek of the brother denying it at first. no sympathy.

Swine should know better.

Its the victim i feel sorry for !

Delancey · 13-05-2011 12:55AM

thebullkf wrote: »

Two brothers,two pricks, Fcuk them. deserve the sack.

Wasn't just a few slaps--- serious injuries, and the cheek of the brother denying it at first. no sympathy.

Swine should know better.

Its the victim i feel sorry for !

Agree 100% , this was not some Mickey Mouse common assault - victim could have died.

the varg · 13-05-2011 03:48PM

Sounds pretty serious assault, for which he should be getting jail-time. Odds are he'll get a suspended sentence with fine or some other ridiculous sentence handed down by some out of touch judge.
But at the very least he should be thrown off the force.

Zambia · 13-05-2011 03:59PM

Geez that's just untidy. I cant see him staying.

Hogzy · 13-05-2011 04:09PM

Fred Cohen wrote: »

Sad to think that someone's career is ruined for a moment of madness on a night out and others can ruin a nation and be allowed to resign with a massive severance package.

I feel sorry for the guy on a personal level but understand the need for the Guard's to be seen as pure as Caesar's Wife

How the hell can you feel sorry for the guy????
He beat the other fella to a pulp and could have killed him.
I have absolutely no sympathy for the Garda. He is an officer of the law. This is not how they should behave whether drunk or not.

Delancey · 13-05-2011 09:05PM

Its worth remembering that Judges can ( and do ) take account of a convicted person being a Garda , there have been instances of Guards being jailed where they may well have got a suspended sentence had they not been AGS members.

Fred Cohen · 26-05-2011 11:00PM

Sentenced today, 18 months with 12 suspended.

I think my previous post may have misinterpreted, I was replying to the previous reply. Of course my sympathy goes to the victim of this assault, who suffered very serious injuries (broken cheek, teeth & jaw, bleeding on the brain and in a coma) and seems to be a very responsible and mature individual who decided to go home before he was drunk.

What I was trying to express was that we have all done stupid things with drink taken, agreed not to this level of serious and the level of violence is appalling, but for the grace of God go I.

pconn062 · 26-05-2011 11:05PM

I'm glad to hear he was jailed, even though I don't think the sentence is severe enough. An awful attack

26-05-2011 11:15PM

Fred Cohen wrote: »

What I was trying to express was that we have all done stupid things with drink taken, agreed not to this level of serious and the level of violence is appalling, but for the grace of God go I.

Yes, but we have to hold Gardaí to a sigificantly higher standard than the ordinary citizen. The publin will only have confidence in the Gardaí if they know that more stringent standards are applied to them.

Allowing a Garda to continue in their position after a serious assault then the the Gardaí in general loose moral authority.

gustafo · 26-05-2011 11:21PM

i hope he gets a serious hiding inside the nick he deserves it.

Fred Cohen · 26-05-2011 11:36PM

Agreed, as I said about Caesar's Wife.

Hogzy wrote: »

I have absolutely no sympathy for the Garda. He is an officer of the law.

He's still a person who made a mistake and will serve his time. How many other officers of the law/court are in gaol for their actions?

Resend · 26-05-2011 11:41PM

Hogzy wrote: »

How the hell can you feel sorry for the guy????
He beat the other fella to a pulp and could have killed him.
I have absolutely no sympathy for the Garda. He is an officer of the law. This is not how they should behave whether drunk or not.

he is a thug

Resend · 26-05-2011 11:43PM

pconn062 wrote: »

I'm glad to hear he was jailed, even though I don't think the sentence is severe enough. An awful attack

and it is going o be reviewed isn't it, probably suspend it all

Dublinstiofán · 26-05-2011 11:48PM

I'd say (some) gardai acquire a taste for beating scumbags over time, not that i'm condoning it in this case. Seems like an unprovoked attack

Some people are just not meant to be on the force, this gard is one of them.

shaneybaby · 27-05-2011 10:19AM

thebullkf wrote: »

Two brothers,two pricks, Fcuk them. deserve the sack.

Wasn't just a few slaps--- serious injuries, and the cheek of the brother denying it at first. no sympathy.

Swine should know better.

Its the victim i feel sorry for !

You're right. it wasn't a few slaps. It was one punch. One punch of a guy shouting gay jibes at his brother and everyones lives are ruined. The innocent victim will have a defamation case against him coming up soon enough i'd say.

The_Snapper · 27-05-2011 10:36AM

pconn062 wrote: »

I'm glad to hear he was jailed, even though I don't think the sentence is severe enough. An awful attack

I don't think it was severe enough either. Because of his position and the ferocity of the assault I feel a minimum of 3yrs would be appropriate, none of it suspended.

A police sergeant in London befriended my Great aunt some years ago, she confided in him as to where some of her savings were hidden in the house. Soon after the money went missing (£8,000). As she never has people call we suspected him of the theft and informed a police station away from where he was stationed.

The money was recovered in his house in the attic within a week. All the money was eventually paid back to her and he pleaded guilty to theft.

Immediately after his conviction and sentence he was taken into custody, discharged from the Metropolitan Police and taken to prison with no leave to appeal. He got 18 months for his dishonesty.

shaneybaby · 27-05-2011 10:43AM

The_Snapper wrote: »

I don't think it was severe enough either. Because of his position and the ferocity of the assault I feel a minimum of 3yrs would be appropriate, none of it suspended.

Out of pure interest how many years would have been a sufficient?

The_Snapper · 27-05-2011 10:53AM

shaneybaby wrote: »

Out of pure interest how many years would have been a sufficient?

3yrs, as stated above.

shaneybaby · 27-05-2011 11:24AM

The_Snapper wrote: »

3yrs, as stated above.

Fair enough, you said minimum though that's all. And what if he had hit him twice and not once? Would it increase the sentence?

If the guy was actually still standing after the single punch and didn't fall and get smashed up would that affect the sentence?

Btw not being pedantic/agressive/wumming here or anything i'm just curious on peoples thoughts really. Sentencing is always a topic. Sound. S

coylemj · 27-05-2011 11:31AM

In assault cases there is a very fine line between hitting someone a punch and killing them. All the victim has to do is fall over, hit his head badly on the footpath and die in which case what would otherwise be a 'normal' assault suddenly becomes manslaughter.

Similarly there have been lots of cases where an assailant lunges at someone with a knife and misses them in which case all the Gardai can realistically do is charge them with assault whereas if the knife had found it's target then charge would be murder on the basis that the person with the knife had armed himself in advance intending to injure or kill his victim. In that case it's almost impossible to get a jury to convict of attempted murder even though if things had gone differently the victim would probably have died and getting a jury to bring in a conviction for murder would be a realistic expectation by the DPP and the Gardai.

The_Snapper · 27-05-2011 12:04PM

shaneybaby wrote: »

Fair enough, you said minimum though that's all. And what if he had hit him twice and not once? Would it increase the sentence?

If the guy was actually still standing after the single punch and didn't fall and get smashed up would that affect the sentence?

Btw not being pedantic/agressive/wumming here or anything i'm just curious on peoples thoughts really. Sentencing is always a topic. Sound. S

No problem, I was basing this one on the severity of the injuries and the position the accused held. Each case merits it own no doubt. This one had potentially life threatening consequences.

The accused also held a position which demands restraint, a simple comment thrown towards his brother, not him, seems to have triggered a raw nerve resulting in a serious assault, possibly GBH.

If the assault was not so severe i.e. common assault, minor bruising etc and a conviction ensued then yes a lesser prison term and discharge from AGS.

No matter what type of conviction automatic discharge from the AGS should follow in my opinion unless extreme circumstances apply.

shaneybaby · 27-05-2011 12:28PM

The_Snapper wrote: »

No problem, I was basing this one on the severity of the injuries and the position the accused held. Each case merits it own no doubt. This one had potentially life threatening consequences.

The accused also held a position which demands restraint, a simple comment thrown towards his brother, not him, seems to have triggered a raw nerve resulting in a serious assault, possibly GBH.

If the assault was not so severe i.e. common assault, minor bruising etc and a conviction ensued then yes a lesser prison term and discharge from AGS.

Te point i'm trying to make is that the assault in this case was one punch. It seems to be the victims injuries from this punch is what people are basing their opinions on what sentence the Defendant should get.

Presumably everyone would still hold the same opinion of the garda and his sentence if the victim simply walked away smiling?

The_Snapper · 27-05-2011 12:47PM

shaneybaby wrote: »

Te point i'm trying to make is that the assault in this case was one punch. It seems to be the victims injuries from this punch is what people are basing their opinions on what sentence the Defendant should get.

Presumably everyone would still hold the same opinion of the garda and his sentence if the victim simply walked away smiling?

One punch or twenty, it is still an assault. I'm also basing it on his (previous) occupation as well as the injuries sustained as stated, each case merits it's own.

Garda with criminal record

Comments