AF447 fell 38,000ft in 3.5 minutes

CommuterIE · 27-05-2011 09:39PM #1

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2011/05/27/exp.nr.quest.air.france.explainer.cnn

This would have been terrifying, may they rest in peace

Hopefully the lessons have been learned and the faulty pitots replaced on all affected Airbus aircraft

danniemcq · 27-05-2011 09:46PM

misread pitots as pilots

CommuterIE · 27-05-2011 09:48PM

danniemcq wrote: »

why you blame the pilots? did they hit turbulance air speed indicators froze up so they couldn't tell their speed so stalled and couldn't restart?

pilot was out of cockpit on a normal break

First of all I blamed nobody.... Secondly the two pilots were in the cockpit before the rapid descent

FlutterinBantam · 27-05-2011 09:48PM

Most airlines using Airbus A330s have modified their procedures regarding icing in the pitot tubes.

danniemcq · 27-05-2011 09:49PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

First of all I blamed nobody.... Secondly the two pilots were in the cockpit before the rapid descent

crap my bad misread your first post thought you said pilots not pitots

i take that back

bonerm · 27-05-2011 09:54PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2011/05/27/exp.nr.quest.air.france.explainer.cnn

This would have been terrifying, may they rest in peace

Hopefully the lessons have been learned and the faulty pitots replaced on all affected Airbus aircraft

CNN. First with the jist of it.

FlutterinBantam · 27-05-2011 09:59PM

Find it strange that if the auto throttles and AP disengaged, they didn't adopt a nose down attitude to regain airspeed and come out of the stall.

but will we ever know.....................

cml387 · 27-05-2011 10:02PM

It seems to have been a very dynamic situation,
From the start of the problem to the loss of control seems to have been less than two minutes.

For a more learned if possibly more confusing debate on this,have a look at www.pprune.org

My name is URL · 27-05-2011 10:06PM

Interesting video... very melodramatic news report though

CommuterIE · 27-05-2011 10:08PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Find it strange that if the auto throttles and AP disengaged, they didn't adopt a nose down attitude to regain airspeed and come out of the stall.

but will we ever know.....................

Presumably if the pitots froze the ADI's would be dead... lack of situational awareness in the dark kills

Also, it is most likely they actually had overspeed indications on their air speed indicator because of the frozen pitots

CommuterIE · 27-05-2011 10:10PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXTbseOEFdQ

This is what can happen if the pitots are blocked

cml387 · 27-05-2011 10:15PM

There's a very sad truism in aviation accidents,and that is "Blame the dead guys".

Rawhead · 27-05-2011 10:20PM

This is the kind of thing that scares the living dung out of me with regards flying. People always quote stats saying your more likely to die in a car crash and I don't doubt you are but, no car crash is going to last 3 minutes odd.
God rest all those souls on board and hopefully they passed out fairly quickly.

CommuterIE · 27-05-2011 10:24PM

Rawhead wrote: »

This is the kind of thing that scares the living dung out of me with regards flying. People always quote stats saying your more likely to die in a car crash and I don't doubt you are but, no car crash is going to last 3 minutes odd.
God rest all those souls on board and hopefully they passed out fairly quickly.

Indeed, there were also Irish citizens on the flight... whilst that doesn't negate the other losses it just makes it feel closer to home

Manic Moran · 27-05-2011 10:24PM

Also, it is most likely they actually had overspeed indications on their air speed indicator because of the frozen pitots

The report gives indications of what the readings were, and never states an overspeed. They were usually low, indicating a slow clog of the pitot only (or a very high AOA, which is also possible).

There's a very sad truism in aviation accidents,and that is "Blame the dead guys".

It cannot be ruled out in this case. You don't need an ASI to fly straight and level, and the consistant pulling back on the stick in a stall situation is worthy of question.

NTM

CommuterIE · 27-05-2011 10:26PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

The report gives indications of what the readings were, and never states an overspeed. They were usually low, indicating a slow clog of the pitot only.

NTM

This may be true, however I don't think if the pilots had the information to hand of what their aircraft was actually doing they would have pointed the nose up, which has all the indications they thought they were flying fast enough

The Left Hand Of God · 27-05-2011 10:29PM

I doubt anyone on the plane knew how bad it was, bar the pilots. The plane was not nose diving.

CommuterIE · 27-05-2011 10:30PM

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

I doubt anyone on the plane knew how bad it was, bar the pilots. The plane was not nose diving.

Wrong!!!! To fall 38,000ft flat out in 3.5 mins would have been absolutely anyones worst nightmare.... they knew what was coming, if some didn't black out along the way down

bonerm · 27-05-2011 10:36PM

What's the g-force like on a drop like that?

Rawhead · 27-05-2011 10:38PM

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

I doubt anyone on the plane knew how bad it was, bar the pilots. The plane was not nose diving.

No offense, but that rate of descent is close to the pace a freefall parachutist descends at. They would have been fully aware of what was happening, that's what makes it all the more terrifying.

FlutterinBantam · 27-05-2011 10:39PM

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

I doubt anyone on the plane knew how bad it was, bar the pilots. The plane was not nose diving.

Not according to the report...?

Fcuker was pitched up from what i can deduce.

Ooops plane not nose diving.... yes misread that.

The Left Hand Of God · 27-05-2011 10:39PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

Wrong!!!! To fall 38,000ft flat out in 3.5 mins would have been absolutely anyones worst nightmare.... they knew what was coming, if some didn't black out along the way down

I was under the impression that was much the same as an emergency decent?

CommuterIE · 27-05-2011 10:41PM

bonerm wrote: »

What's the g-force like on a drop like that?

Not sure about the negative G, but they hit the ocean at 11,000ft per min...

CommuterIE · 27-05-2011 10:41PM

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

I was under the impression that was much the same as an emergency decent?

No...

sdanseo · 27-05-2011 10:43PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

The report gives indications of what the readings were, and never states an overspeed. They were usually low, indicating a slow clog of the pitot only (or a very high AOA, which is also possible).

It cannot be ruled out in this case. You don't need an ASI to fly straight and level, and the consistant pulling back on the stick in a stall situation is worthy of question.

NTM

Was it in daylight or night-time that the accident occurred? If you lose your instruments over a pitch black ocean, straight and level becomes next to impossible. Spatial disorientation.

A regular descent in an A330 would be between 1500-2500fpm. An emergency descent could be two or three times that at the very most, any faster and the airframe becomes unstable.

If the aircraft was falling but pitched up, to me it would suggest total instrument failure, spatial disorientation, stall and loss of flight envelope...followed, almost inevitably, by the crash. However isn't there a standby gyroscopic ADI for these reasons which should have worked regardless?

The Left Hand Of God · 27-05-2011 10:47PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

No...

Well that is that is eh... that then. :rolleyes:

CommuterIE · 27-05-2011 11:03PM

sdonn wrote: »

Was it in daylight or night-time that the accident occurred? If you lose your instruments over a pitch black ocean, straight and level becomes next to impossible. Spatial disorientation.

A regular descent in an A330 would be between 1500-2500fpm. An emergency descent could be two or three times that at the very most, any faster and the airframe becomes unstable.

If the aircraft was falling but pitched up, to me it would suggest total instrument failure, spatial disorientation, stall and loss of flight envelope...followed, almost inevitably, by the crash. However isn't there a standby gyroscopic ADI for these reasons which should have worked regardless?

Anything more than 4,000fpm in the normal configuration would be scary for the passengers... this flight however went flat out at 11,000fpm... picture the scariest drop ever in a rollercoatser, multiply the by 100 for 3.5 mins...

The Left Hand Of God · 27-05-2011 11:10PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

Anything more than 4,000fpm in the normal configuration would be scary for the passengers... this flight however went flat out at 11,000fpm... picture the scariest drop ever in a rollercoatser, multiply the by 100 for 3.5 mins...

It was not a roller coaster. It was an aeroplane. Think about the science.

Or as far as I can see google all you want to find stuff to make a half assed attempt at a scientific argument.

sdanseo · 27-05-2011 11:11PM

In fairness commuter, this is AH not A&A...there have been worse jokes and there will be many more worse jokes.

celj...seriously notwithstanding the above, grow up.

FlutterinBantam · 27-05-2011 11:11PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

Just **** off, nobody wants to see any of that kind of ****e in this thread

Steady up now lads.

No need for anything like that in here.

Certainly not on this thread.

let the Mods handle things.

celj · 27-05-2011 11:11PM

CommuterIE wrote: »

Just **** off, nobody wants to see any of that kind of ****e in this thread

Well how very dare you indeed!

Aviation and Aircraft is that way>>>

This is After hours.

Get over it people.

AF447 fell 38,000ft in 3.5 minutes

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