Is it morally wrong to buy weed?

tayto lover · 24-05-2011 11:33PM

Laisurg wrote: »

An unjust law is an unjust law, as i said before around 90 years ago women were not allowed to vote, it was still the law but it was hardly fair, and as someone else pointed out not too long ago homosexuality was illegal, these laws were unjust and were changed, just because something is the law does not make it right.

The ball is already rolling anyway, cannabis was recently decriminalized in portugal and uruguay and that's going very well for them, eventually it will be decriminalized in more countries and one day i think it will be here, there's now 3 members of the dail who are in support of legalization and while thats not many there was none who said openly that they supported it in the last dail.

I will have no problem if it is eventually legalised and can be bought on prescription. The problem i can see is that the medical profession are still against it here and they will play a big part in the debate or any campaign for legalisation. While many say it helps those with M.S. others say it is very bad for those with depression and link it to many suicides. The debate will go on for some time yet i believe. It won't effect me as i don't smoke anyway but i have an interest in the debate.

Hookah · 24-05-2011 11:39PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I will have no problem if it is eventually legalised and can be bought on prescription. The problem i can see is that the medical profession are still against it here and they will play a big part in the debate or any campaign for legalisation. While many say it helps those with M.S. others say it is very bad for those with depression and link it to many suicides. The debate will go on for some time yet i believe. It won't effect me as i don't smoke anyway but i have an interest in the debate.

Moral qualms abated?

tayto lover · 24-05-2011 11:42PM

Laisurg
Registered User

An unjust law is an unjust law

What makes any law unjust ? Is it because someone who is saying its unjust is breaking it and wants it to seem that way ?
What about the people who think it is a just law ?

haydar · 24-05-2011 11:57PM

Tayto lover. Its nice to see someone take part in a debate about cannabis without reverting to the old stereotyoes of stoners and the like. You put your are argument forward well and i applaud you for that. Even though I would be pro-legalisation

twinQuins · 25-05-2011 12:03AM

tayto lover wrote: »

What makes any law unjust ? Is it because someone who is saying its unjust is breaking it and wants it to seem that way ?
What about the people who think it is a just law ?

Let's say someone grows their own cannabis and smokes it. Their actions harm no one.

Why should they be jailed? Essentially that's what it comes down to: if your actions harm no one (or if they may harm you and you accept that) you should be allowed pursue them, in my opinion of course.

Chuck Stone · 25-05-2011 12:08AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Chuck Stone wrote: »

My point is that they are BOTH against the law and will remain so until we have a change in the law.

My piont is that the law that criminalises drug use leads to violence against people who have no desire to hurt anyone or to make anyone's lives difficult in any way. It's uneccesarily aggressive and intrusive.

Again, either you're for violence and aggression against people who don't hurt anyone or you're against it.

You've said you support violence against these ppl.

It is you who need to question your own morals.

You will find, however, that most of drug gangs will have unlicenced guns to protect their "interests" so maybe the question is appropriate.

This is a by-product of the illegality of drugs. The people who sell drugs can hardly hire a security firm or go to the police if thier 'product' is compromised.

Laisurg · 25-05-2011 12:08AM

tayto lover wrote: »

I will have no problem if it is eventually legalised and can be bought on prescription. The problem i can see is that the medical profession are still against it here and they will play a big part in the debate or any campaign for legalisation. While many say it helps those with M.S. others say it is very bad for those with depression and link it to many suicides. The debate will go on for some time yet i believe. It won't effect me as i don't smoke anyway but i have an interest in the debate.

They are looking into medical use for cancer and there is a european study currently underway for it's effect on MS as far as i'm aware, the thing is no one has ever proved that cannabis has a link with depression and suicide, they have said they think there is a link till the dogs come home but someone has yet to prove it, in my personal experience I feel more at ease and content with everything when I am smoking cannabis and for the days after, not just while smoking it.

I feel the law is unjust because of my personal experiences with cannabis and the fact that alcohol and tobacco are legal however the deaths from alcohol each year are about 1.5 million worldwide and the deaths from tobacco are around a whopping 5 million, the deaths from cannabis each year and in history are 0, i feel this speaks for itself, prescription drugs kill people as well, i'm not sure of the figures but it's quite a large number.
I just can't accept cannabis being illegal as I and many people I know enjoy it quite a lot, I have yet to see someone who experiences any negative effects from cannabis bar a whitey (low blood pressure which can cause someone to feel very tired and may make movement difficult and can cause some vomiting, however the vomiting is usually the result of drinking alcohol before hand and the increased stomach acid from smoking can make you feel sick, this usually only happens with people who are inexperienced) In my experience this is how bad the negative effects get.

Chuck Stone · 25-05-2011 12:13AM

tayto lover wrote: »

What makes any law unjust ? Is it because someone who is saying its unjust is breaking it and wants it to seem that way
What about the people who think it is a just law ?

A law that targets ppl, that basically says

'we will kick down your door, kidnap you, and lock you up in a small room, if you do not obey'

against people who mean no harm to anyone.

In fact it's sadistic.

This really isn't difficult if you put a little though into it.

zenno · 25-05-2011 01:25AM

sure magic mushrooms grow everywhere here in ireland on september and people can take them all they like but if you are caught selling them you might get in trouble.

cannabis is a herb that grows naturally straight out of the ground so if people decide to smoke it then they should be left alone to enjoy it but the sale of it will get you prison as you have no licence to sell and unfortunately it is illegal but I never came across a person on cannabis that caused any trouble they are just relaxed and enjoying the buzz compared to drunks that I see all the time going into a mental-case riot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZNBTABjVjU

charlemont · 25-05-2011 01:57AM

tayto lover wrote: »

It is human nature of course to try and justify what you do and to try and convince others that it is only a "small" crime and that it should be legalised.
Running down posts that disagree with you're habits and lawlessness is part of that human nature too. Just the way addicts like to be called victims of a drug culture that they innocently became a part of despite their parents warnings and all the publicity campaigns. Thats why the Gilligans, Dundons and Fellonis of this world had it easy selling their wares. Everyone is just a victim or only doing things like using in a "small way". We can all train our minds to believe this and have a clear conscience.

Here we go again, Someone who wants to preach to others about whats right and wrong, Cannabis users been the easy target again, The Gilligan's, Dundon's and Felloni's (All scum BTW) have it easy in this society because people like your good self spend time and energy interfering in others peoples business, Telling them they are wrong then making laws that are morally wrong. Dodgy people will fill the void and crime soars.
Same anti-cannabis critics probably go to church weekly to show their support for the largest criminal organisation this country ever seen, The Catholic Church, You never see the Gardaí kicking in the doors of the church, Why ? Its not that long ago when sex abuse victims who complained to the Gardaí were told where to go..

Console · 25-05-2011 02:16AM

Charlemont,
I have just read the above post. Both tayto lover and yours.

I can only speak on whats said in both posts. But tayto makes a point. I download. And if anyone asks me saying "isnt that wrong?" - i, just like 99.9 percent of the population pass it off as a "small crime" and "who am I hurting?"

People always try and pass things off rather than just say "I guess you can say its wrong, but i dont give a f**K"

zephyrz · 25-05-2011 02:20AM

gladi8r wrote: »

considering you are probably giving the money to thugs who murder people and terrorize neighborhoods, is it wrong in your opinion to buy weed?

when i talk about these "thugs" I am talking about the people on top who import the weed not the small time dealers who sell it to you

Grow a pair

Johro · 25-05-2011 01:40PM

Musical Interlude..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96l8j6SCcN4

Fukuyama · 25-05-2011 01:52PM

To those against cannabis.

Head into Temple Bar on a Saturday.

I have seen people turned into animals fighting. Seriously injuring one another over silly things. I remember seeing CCTV of what can only be described as a 'penalty kick' to a chaps head as he lay on the cobblestones in temple bar.

People fight and turn quite calicious when on the drink (I have seen this in my own family on a regular basis). People do stupid things when drunk. People OD when drunk - choke on their own vomit etc...

When people smoke cigarettes they give themselves cancer. This tears apart families. Kills people and ruins the quality of life for others. Head into a respiratory or cancer ward and have a look at some of the souls wasting away.

And I don't see a problem with that. People are entitled to put into their bodies what they wish. If I want to drink a bucket of crude oil, paint, dog **** or budweiser then I should be allowed.

But FFS, cannabis is illegal?! Come on! Who does it harm? Nobody bar perhaps the person taking it. Ever see people high on weed? ****, I could be packing a bowl with Hitler himself and I'm sure we'd get along just fine. Studies by the US military in the 40s found it caused soldiers to become placid and reluctant to fight. And that's a bad thing to have in our society?

I'm sorry. But there are two types of people who agree with the prohibition of Marijuana (and indeed any other drug). Idiots. And sheep. Baa...Baaa...

the_syco · 25-05-2011 03:23PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

Aside from respiratory stuff, it has some effect on memory and possibly motor skills later on, particularly if used from a relatively young age.

If smoked before the age of somewhere between 18-21 it will cause the most damage.

tayto lover · 25-05-2011 04:03PM

Laisurg wrote: »

They are looking into medical use for cancer and there is a european study currently underway for it's effect on MS as far as i'm aware, the thing is no one has ever proved that cannabis has a link with depression and suicide, they have said they think there is a link till the dogs come home but someone has yet to prove it, in my personal experience I feel more at ease and content with everything when I am smoking cannabis and for the days after, not just while smoking it.

I feel the law is unjust because of my personal experiences with cannabis and the fact that alcohol and tobacco are legal however the deaths from alcohol each year are about 1.5 million worldwide and the deaths from tobacco are around a whopping 5 million, the deaths from cannabis each year and in history are 0, i feel this speaks for itself, prescription drugs kill people as well, i'm not sure of the figures but it's quite a large number.
I just can't accept cannabis being illegal as I and many people I know enjoy it quite a lot, I have yet to see someone who experiences any negative effects from cannabis bar a whitey (low blood pressure which can cause someone to feel very tired and may make movement difficult and can cause some vomiting, however the vomiting is usually the result of drinking alcohol before hand and the increased stomach acid from smoking can make you feel sick, this usually only happens with people who are inexperienced) In my experience this is how bad the negative effects get.

Studies suggest that cannabis use has a link to depression
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2498493.stm

Hookah · 25-05-2011 04:07PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Studies suggest that cannabis use has a link to depression
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2498493.stm

Other studies suggest cannabis has no link to depression.

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v06/n183/a05.html

Other studies show a decrease in depression.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:u496EIq2ePwJ:www.doctordeluca.com/Library/WOD/WPS3-MedMj/DecreasedDepressionInMjUsers05.pdf+cannabis,+no+link+to+depression&hl=en&gl=ie&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjyBpDRfavUOeWGJZJ9mDC38IZK7Wu2m--0ow-fzkd-389yWpixGunuSwj-OThoz6jX5GUuADPdCIj1L3n9leSDMHn8ehKeQrzFWON2cxEX1ZslZn_CnsX_MGkqJ2G8HYPLUFn4&sig=AHIEtbTWud2hySiTzqZ_FHLFtNAW9kVEZg

etc.

Auvers · 25-05-2011 04:08PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Studies suggest that cannabis use has a link to depression

this auld chestnut has been wheeled out again, did you actually read the whole report or just the headline?

But he added that further research is needed

"Whether the use of cannabis triggers the onset of schizophrenia or depression in otherwise vulnerable people or whether it actually causes these conditions in non-predisposed people is not yet resolved"

haydar · 25-05-2011 04:11PM

I read a lot of the people in these studies were not checked to see if they were susceptible to mental illnesses before hand.

ScumLord · 25-05-2011 04:13PM

the_syco wrote: »

If smoked before the age of somewhere between 18-21 it will cause the most damage.

Perhaps, I know plenty of people that started smoking at 13 and don't suffer any negative side effects. It only seems to affect a tiny minority of people and that tiny minority only puts itself at major risk if they smoke in their early teens and younger.

tayto lover · 25-05-2011 05:10PM

Auvers wrote: »

this auld chestnut has been wheeled out again, did you actually read the whole report or just the headline?

But he added that further research is needed

"Whether the use of cannabis triggers the onset of schizophrenia or depression in otherwise vulnerable people or whether it actually causes these conditions in non-predisposed people is not yet resolved"

But you choose to ignore this and yet believe other studies that cannot prove otherwise. It goes to prove that many people only believe what they want to believe as i said earlier in the debate. I did not say then that cannabis helps many with M.S. and not all as those M.S. studies say. Goes back to what we want to do we can find excuses or reasons for. It all does not effect the moral issue only the legal one however.

tayto lover · 25-05-2011 05:12PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Perhaps, I know plenty of people that started smoking at 13 and don't suffer any negative side effects. It only seems to affect a tiny minority of people and that tiny minority only puts itself at major risk if they smoke in their early teens and younger.

Many youngsters who start smoking cannabis at 12 or 13 also end up not completing secondary school due to behaviour associated with drug use too.

Auvers · 25-05-2011 05:12PM

tayto lover wrote: »

But you choose to ignore this and yet believe other studies that cannot prove otherwise

huh I was just pointing out that you made a sensationalist claim based on a 8 year old report on a webpage, I never mentioned any other studies

mikom · 25-05-2011 05:14PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Many youngsters who start smoking cannabis at 12 or 13 also end up not completing secondary school due to behaviour associated with drug use too.

Many youngsters who start drinking alcohol at 12 or 13 also end up not completing secondary school due to behaviour associated with drug use too.

Your point?

tayto lover · 25-05-2011 05:17PM

mikom wrote: »

Many youngsters who start drinking alcohol at 12 or 13 also end up not completing secondary school due to behaviour associated with drug use too.

Your point?

Exactly, and is alcohol not illegal at that age too ? Is it also morally wrong ? I think you will agree that both answers are yes.

Chuck Stone · 25-05-2011 05:18PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Many youngsters who start smoking cannabis at 12 or 13 also end up not completing secondary school due to behaviour associated with drug use too.

And you think illegality and involving children in the criminal justice system will improve things for children who take drugs?

Children taking drugs is a parenting issue.

tayto lover · 25-05-2011 05:20PM

Auvers wrote: »

huh I was just pointing out that you made a sensationalist claim based on a 8 year old report on a webpage, I never mentioned any other studies

My point is that studies which state the opposite point to mine also require further research even the ones on M.S.

jill_valentine · 25-05-2011 05:23PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Perhaps, I know plenty of people that started smoking at 13 and don't suffer any negative side effects. It only seems to affect a tiny minority of people and that tiny minority only puts itself at major risk if they smoke in their early teens and younger.

Yeah, my only real concern would be for a "stunting" effect, regardless of how mild, it might have on a developing brain. In this regard however it's worth noting that alcohol is far more detrimental than cannabis over the same period.

For the record, I don't partake myself, but I'm ardently for decriminalisation, with an age restriction borne in mind and firmly enforced.

tayto lover · 25-05-2011 05:24PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

And you think illegality and involving children in the criminal justice system will improve things for children who take drugs?

Children taking drugs is a parenting issue.

Involving children in the criminal justice system is never a good idea. So are you blaming the police instead of the parents as cannabis is still illegal or would you prefer that everyone turn a "blind eye" to the issue ?

tayto lover · 25-05-2011 05:25PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

Yeah, my only real concern would be for a "stunting" effect, regardless of how mild, it might have on a developing brain. In this regard however it's worth noting that alcohol is far more detrimental than cannabis over the same period.

For the record, I don't partake myself, but I'm ardently for decriminalisation, with an age restriction borne in mind and firmly enforced.

Exactly, but the moral and legal issues still remain until the law is changed.

Is it morally wrong to buy weed?

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