Climbing Mt. Everest

Krusader · 24-05-2011 06:55PM

I couldn't do it knowing there was a substantial risk i'd never see my unborn child.

SomeFool · 24-05-2011 07:20PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Personally, as a fairy serious climber, I made my choice not to have a family long ago, not that that's a criticism of anyone who does otherwise and I don't know that my choice was right either now that I'm older.

If you're interested in this, it may be worth reading Regions Of The Heart, it's about Alison Hargreaves, who went through all this as a wife, mother and mountaineer. She faced (unfairly IMO) more criticism than men in the same situation. It's a pretty broad, deep, well written analysis, of her as a climber and as a wife and mother.

Same decision here, also Hargreaves son is planning to climb k2 afaik.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

In my opinion he was a total gimp

Climbing the world's highest mountain is a unique event

Best left to those experienced.

Not for amateurs

It's the worlds highest but not the most difficult. It's still very hard to predict the effect altitude will have on anybody, regardless of training or experience. 9 times out od 10 he probably would have been ok.

RIP and condolences to his poor family.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 24-05-2011 07:30PM

'It's better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a lamb.'

Thats why.

alex73 · 24-05-2011 07:48PM

Philip Sour Blackberry wrote: »

'It's better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a lamb.'

Thats why.

To live!, The guy had 2 small kids and a pregnant wife. It was very much his decision to go up Mt. Everest. I'm all for living, but life comes with responsibilities.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 24-05-2011 07:55PM

alex73 wrote: »

To live!, The guy had 2 small kids and a pregnant wife. It was very much his decision to go up Mt. Everest. I'm all for living, but life comes with responsibilities.

Next year I'll volunteer to serve with UNIFIL in Lebanon, I have similar responsibilities.

I love the place, in fact I love oversea's service regardless the circumstances - does that make me a bad father given that its my choice if I should go or not?.

Rantan · 24-05-2011 08:08PM

He was right to try, he prob booked his place and paid the small fortune for his place on the expedition ages ago - before he even knew his missus was pregnant. What was he supposed to do? throw away about 30k and the chance of a life time? Also from what it says in the papers he was an experienced climber. J**us what a terrible life we would have if everthing stopped when the family came along....his wife prob supported him, if she loved him she would have supported his decision, assuming he know what he was doing and for the right reasons. Risks are part of life. If the guy prepared properly, took all the right precautions etc etc there is no reason why he shouldn't have tried.

alex73 · 24-05-2011 08:21PM

Philip Sour Blackberry wrote: »

Next year I'll volunteer to serve with UNIFIL in Lebanon, I have similar responsibilities.

I love the place, in fact I love oversea's service regardless the circumstances - does that make me a bad father given that its my choice if I should go or not?.

Dedicating your life to help others (as Garda and Firemen do) is in a different league than risking you life to achieve a personal goal of climbing a mountain where over 200 people have died.

My friends father died in Lebanon as a soldier. His wife married him knowing that was his career. His son is very proud of him. Are we to say that personal achievements are in the same level as given your life to help others?

Kevin Duffy · 24-05-2011 08:35PM

Saila wrote: »

its called the 'death zone' for a reason

It's called the Death Zone because a doctor coined the phrase for a book in the 50's, it's been resurrected in recent years mostly because of a documentary of the same name by Matt Dickinson.
Its currency derives mostly from tabloid sensationalism and the need for handy labels among people who don't understand mountaineering. It's little used in mountaineering. Not everyone who goes to 8000m+ dies, people die doing all sorts of things lower down. The front seat of a car, DR Congo, crack-houses and the 18th green are more Death Zones than the high mountains.

Kevin Duffy · 24-05-2011 08:38PM

alex73 wrote: »

Are we to say that personal achievements are in the same level as given your life to help others?

That'd be quite the broad and blunt value judgement. Of course it's great to help people, but it's not like people who help others aren't in some way responding to their own deep-seated, important, personal motivations and getting no satisfaction from it.

tightropetom · 24-05-2011 10:20PM

Saila wrote: »

its called the 'death zone' for a reason

The 'death zone' is so called because long term survival is not possible above 7500m. Nothing to do with the amount of people who die up there. Many deaths have occurred on Everest below the 'death zone' rather than above it. Death Zone was a term coined a few years back as a catchy name, the tabloids love it.

Having said that, many people drop dead at sea level because they eat too many burgers and smoke fags...

Saila · 24-05-2011 10:48PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

It's called the Death Zone because a doctor coined the phrase for a book in the 50's, it's been resurrected in recent years mostly because of a documentary of the same name by Matt Dickinson.
Its currency derives mostly from tabloid sensationalism and the need for handy labels among people who don't understand mountaineering. It's little used in mountaineering. Not everyone who goes to 8000m+ dies, people die doing all sorts of things lower down. The front seat of a car, DR Congo, crack-houses and the 18th green are more Death Zones than the high mountains.

tightropetom wrote: »

The 'death zone' is so called because long term survival is not possible above 7500m. Nothing to do with the amount of people who die up there. Many deaths have occurred on Everest below the 'death zone' rather than above it. Death Zone was a term coined a few years back as a catchy name, the tabloids love it.

Having said that, many people drop dead at sea level because they eat too many burgers and smoke fags...

I know about the death zone and why its called that thanks. This guy died in the death zone [50 from the top] I dont know why he died yet, but if its for the usual reasons of dying in the death zone he had NO chance, he had 50m to go to the top, which means he still had the descent to do to get out of the death zone which would have taken him hours, that is if his death was related to oxygen deprivation in the death zone, all Ive heard so far is he died, no mention of how

It wasn't me! · 24-05-2011 11:07PM

Yeah, I'd do it, personally. Dreams don't stop because you have a family. You either do it, or spend the rest of your life regretting not doing so and resenting those around you who prevented you doing so. To hell with that, live and go.

ElectraX · 24-05-2011 11:14PM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Yeah, I'd do it, personally. Dreams don't stop because you have a family. You either do it, or spend the rest of your life regretting not doing so and resenting those around you who prevented you doing so. To hell with that, live and go.

Well in this case wouldn't it have been better that he spent his life regretting it, as opposed to dying and leaving his family without a husband and father.

Doyler92 · 24-05-2011 11:15PM

That_Guy wrote: »

John Delaney... And not that John Delaney.

But what about that other John Delaney?

Latchy · 24-05-2011 11:18PM

You often hear of people getting stuck up in the Scottish Highlands in winter , people who go out like little Edmund Hillarys with little expierence of hill or mountain climbing , a mobile phone for contact , dont bother to check the weather forecast before starting off ( and in mid winter on a Scottish Mountaintop you can be sure it will always get worse ) and with minumum protection from the elements except a pair of boots . If you are negligent about your own safety in these situations then you should pay for cost of the police , search and rescue helicoptors which run into £1000's .

It wasn't me! · 24-05-2011 11:27PM

ElectraX wrote: »

Well in this case wouldn't it have been better that he spent his life regretting it, as opposed to dying and leaving his family without a husband and father.

No, that's no way to live. I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't wish for anyone else to so neuter themselves either. What's being suggested here, following Makikomi's plans for a return to Lebanon, is that his motivation justifies that risk, while the motivations to climb a mountain don't. Therefore it's just a value judgement and in some cases, it's justifiable to risk that hurt to your family, provided the motivation is good enough, or, presumably, the potential reward is good enough. So obviously he made his decision, and others are ascribing their own values to the potential reward he was seeking, while he himself obviously ascribed a completely different value to it which convinced him that it was worthwhile. Personally I don't think it's admirable to be so embedded in your family that you lose your impetus to achieve as an individual. I think that's sad. That's to treat family as the noose around your neck, rather than something to be appreciated and enjoyed. The world is full of people with regrets and plans they never realised, and nowhere near full enough of people who did everything they ever wanted to achieve.

ElectraX · 25-05-2011 12:03AM

Having a family does not have to equate with giving up all freedoms and aspirations, but it does come with a level of moral responsibility that means actions/consequences have to be weighed up more carefully than if you are a single person with no dependants.
Climbing Everest is a dangerous thing, everyone knows that.He went there knowing there was a chance he wouldn't return and frankly I don't think most men/women with a young family would take that risk.
I know the old cliche "he died doing what he loved most" will be used by some, but I don't think that is any consolation to his children who will grow up with no father and his wife who now has to raise them on her own with all the emotional and financial burden attached to that.

It wasn't me! · 25-05-2011 01:07AM

Where do you draw the line? What's too dangerous? Should he not skydive? Scuba dive? Drive a racing car? If you give up all the little thrills, you've neutered yourself to the point where you're no longer living for anything you want, just the family, and that's no life.

Duggy747 · 25-05-2011 01:15AM

Well, like many before him his body will lay exactly where he died forever. There's plenty of pics of previous climbers bodies just left there on the mountain that are taken by other people attempting to climb it.

Wouldn't be the nicest thing to see on your trek, all the fallen people who failed on your journey.

Still, sad considering how close he apparentley was to conquering his goal but now his kids are fatherless. They don't even get to see him one last time for a funeral.

General General · 25-05-2011 01:22AM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Where do you draw the line? What's too dangerous? Should he not skydive? Scuba dive? Drive a racing car? If you give up all the little thrills, you've neutered yourself to the point where you're no longer living for anything you want, just the family, and that's no life.

You've changed my mind. Freedom to engage in whatever activities make you feel significant is worth more than the price paid by all concerned.

donkey balls · 25-05-2011 01:37AM

Speaking as an ex mountaineer and someone who has been to the Himalaya along with other places the 30k being thrown around as a figure to climb Everest is bull an average your looking at least 60k or more,This would include peak fees paid to the the Nepali govt anything between 10/20k roughly then the equipment you need to buy can be quiet expensive along with medicals etc.
I started climbing at a young age and watched documentaries about the likes of Everest&K2 and went along to a slid show held by the first Irish team who managed to summit on Everest all those years ago,To go an a expedition to the likes of the Himalaya takes a lot of time to prepare with visa and the logistics of moving all your gear out to Nepal/Tibet I have been lucky to be on expeditions with guys who have climbed on Everest and other 8000mtr peaks and to hear their stories about the expeditions taking over three months depending on weather etc.
As for the death zone normally that's above 20,000ft were you need to use oxygen bottles altitude sickness normally kicks in around 12,000ft thats why climbers take their time to acclimatise and stay at different camps in order to get use to the pressure there most mountaineers who get sick can either get HACE(high altitude cerebral edema)or HAPE(high altitude pulmonary edema),Both conditions can be brought on by the person not being acclimatised properly and the only way to save them is to get him/her to a lower altitude this happened to a mate of mine some time ago and it took a number of days to recover the body off the mountain side.
As for the dangers of climbing mountains such as Everest yes there is a risk but it can be mimalised by taking certain precautions making an informed view whether it's safe to climb due to weather/time scales etc,I remember one of the guys telling me that Everest on a good day is like walking down Grafton st with the amount of people climbing it when I was climbing I had special insurance taking out that included helicopter rescue etc it's also harder to come down off the mountain once you reached the summit.
At the time while doing my training some of my mates thought that I was a bit mad especially after what happened to my mate but i just kept plugging away made it home in one piece have memories that will stay with me forever.

RIP
May Sagarmatha look after your body.

Capt'n Midnight · 25-05-2011 01:40AM

It was a selfish action. It's not like Everest hasn't been climbed before. It's not like he's trying to save a life.

"Death by misadventure"

Thing is when you are up in the "death zone" no one is going to rescue you. People have walked past those struggling because at the limits of survival because to stop and help would likely affect their chances of survival.

Though I do feel most anger at those who run expeditions, they know the risks, they know that the chances are high that their fees will be blood money.

Should individuals be allowed to indulge in extremely dangerous activity that is likely to result in death ?
Should comanies be allowed to profit from such activites ?

SomeFool · 25-05-2011 02:06AM

donkey balls wrote: »

Speaking as an ex mountaineer and someone who has been to the Himalaya along with other places the 30k being thrown around as a figure to climb Everest is bull an average your looking at least 60k or more,This would include peak fees paid to the the Nepali govt anything between 10/20k roughly then the equipment you need to buy can be quiet expensive along with medicals etc..

Cheapest I know of is €27,000 with img, i'm sure it can be done cheaper through China. The various companies opperating Everest expeditions have vastly reduced the time, cost, experience and organisation needed for any indivudual to make the climb.

SomeFool · 25-05-2011 02:16AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Though I do feel most anger at those who run expeditions, they know the risks, they know that the chances are high that their fees will be blood money.

Should individuals be allowed to indulge in extremely dangerous activity that is likely to result in death ?
Should comanies be allowed to profit from such activites ?

I plan to climb Everest some day. It's something I could never do without those companies operating there. It would just be too big an operation otherwise along with the fact that I'd never have the financial backing to pull it off. I don't think they can do much more to look after their clients, they simply put the infrastructure in place for give you a decent summit shot (food/tents/guides/oxygen/acclimatisation) and the rest is up to your own ability/luck/sense of responsibility.

donkey balls · 25-05-2011 02:48AM

SomeFool wrote: »

Cheapest I know of is €27,000 with img, i'm sure it can be done cheaper through China. The various companies opperating Everest expeditions have vastly reduced the time, cost, experience and organisation needed for any indivudual to make the climb.

€27k that's cheap all right considering most companies charged in or around €50k a few years back,The likes of Nepal need people climbing within the Himalaya to make money from visas climbing fees etc without it they would be f@@ked as a country.

watna · 25-05-2011 05:31AM

A kiwi guy ( former cricketer) just climbed Everest the other day and they showed his family waiting for him at the airport to come back on the news. He had two young kids and they were interviewing them asking if they missed their Daddy and they said they couldn't wait to see him again. He looked thrilled to see them all when he came through the arrival gates but I was thinking the same thing as the OP when I was watching it, why do something so risky if you had two young kids waiting at home?

25-05-2011 07:35AM

I really wish K2 was the highest and not Everest.. Then you wouldn't have every rich gobshlte in the world being able to train for a while and then pay some guide to carry your stuff up a mountain. I don't even think it's risky... The numbers are skewed by early attempts with no oxygen tanks and bad equipment.

I remember reading an interview with an acclaimed mountain climber and he laughed at the idea of climbing it.. He said it was a tourist attraction like Disney Land.

Frank Black · 25-05-2011 08:40AM

Why would you rather be climbing up a mountain than be with your wife when she is due to give birth?
Smacks of a guy with a huge ego and his priorities all wrong.
Being a good husband and father take more guts than climbing a stupid mountain. But hey, it probably doesn't make for as good an anecdote at a dinner party.
Sometimes being a 'hero' isn't about sticking a flag pole on top of a mountain - it's about being responsible (and maybe boring) and doing what's best for your family.
His wife is now left to pick up the pieces and raise a young family on her own - she will have to be the real hero but I bet her struggle won't get as many platitudes as his ill-judged actions.

tightropetom · 25-05-2011 09:53AM

SomeFool wrote: »

Cheapest I know of is €27,000 with img, i'm sure it can be done cheaper through China. The various companies opperating Everest expeditions have vastly reduced the time, cost, experience and organisation needed for any indivudual to make the climb.

7smmits club do a 20,000$ package on the north side. Mr Delaney was climbing with them - although he had guides and Sherpas so prob paid more

Dravokivich · 25-05-2011 11:30AM

black francis wrote: »

Why would you rather be climbing up a mountain than be with your wife when she is due to give birth?
Smacks of a guy with a huge ego and his priorities all wrong.
Being a good husband and father take more guts than climbing a stupid mountain. But hey, it probably doesn't make for as good an anecdote at a dinner party.
Sometimes being a 'hero' isn't about sticking a flag pole on top of a mountain - it's about being responsible (and maybe boring) and doing what's best for your family.
His wife is now left to pick up the pieces and raise a young family on her own - she will have to be the real hero but I bet her struggle won't get as many platitudes as his ill-judged actions.

Could it be possible that he had planned and paid for this before she was even pregnant with their third child?

Climbing Mt. Everest

Comments